M135GX Hard Starting

[rwhoppins]

I have a M135GX that is having a stating issue. Starter barely turns over to start engine. Replaced battery(twice), replaced starter, replaced alternator, and yet still having troubles. It does it on warm days and cold days. Tractor will run for 6-8 hours and after shutting off and trying to restart, it barely turns over. Almost like hydraulics are engaged, but they aren't, or battery is dead but it isn't. Local service department doesn't have any answers to assist with the problem. Anyone have any suggestions where to look next? Thanks

 

[thebicman]

You didn't mention this. Make sure all your power and ground cables are in good shape with clean secure connections.

 

[BAP]

After you have checked all your wiring out for good connections, it’s time to start using an electrical tester. First, would be to test the battery to make sure it is fully charged. Then get the tractor running to make sure the alternator is putting a charge into the battery. When the tractor doesn’t want to turn over, have you put a battery charger on it and see if it will make the engine start?

 

[Dave_eng]

I have a M135GX that is having a stating issue. Starter barely turns over to start engine. Replaced battery(twice), replaced starter, replaced alternator, and yet still having troubles. It does it on warm days and cold days. Tractor will run for 6-8 hours and after shutting off and trying to restart, it barely turns over. Almost like hydraulics are engaged, but they aren't, or battery is dead but it isn't. Local service department doesn't have any answers to assist with the problem. Anyone have any suggestions where to look next? Thanks

I have sent you a private message. Look for the envelope symbol in the top right corner of most forum pages.
Dave

 

[GreensvilleJay]

look at it this way...
alternator-->battery-->cables--> starter

you replaced all the $$$ items and STILL have the problem


For less than the cost of that 2nd battery, you should have replaced BOTH battery cables.
Hate to see the $$ for starter and alternator.

If over 5 years old,odds are one or both are internally corroded.

 

[Dave_eng]

I have rec'd the battery cable photos I asked you for.
Do the fix I suggested to this one connection and then try.
Post if it made a big difference

I will post the other photos so other forum members can review

Dave

 

[Dave_eng]

Here are photos from owner

In addition to the ground cable bolt to frame, the positive battery connection looks very messed with and may also be part of the problem.

Dave

 

[GreensvilleJay]

wow what a friggin wiring NIGHTMARE,sadly though I've seen worse.
3 or 4 high current device trying to get power from that battery !
That tractor should have a SECOND battery, just for 'extra' stuff.... and a 'dual-diode' between the alternator and the batteries.

 

[rwhoppins]

After you have checked all your wiring out for good connections, it’s time to start using an electrical tester. First, would be to test the battery to make sure it is fully charged. Then get the tractor running to make sure the alternator is putting a charge into the battery. When the tractor doesn’t want to turn over, have you put a battery charger on it and see if it will make the engine start?

I’ve done all this and alternator is charging battery is a 13.5 volts in resting state and when starter is engaged is pulls down to 13.2 but engine is very slow turning over. Does anyone know the ohms of resistance in a new cable(battery to starter)? I’ll try doing some resistance testing as it turns over to determine if cables are faulty. Thanks

 

[rwhoppins]

wow what a friggin wiring NIGHTMARE,sadly though I've seen worse.
3 or 4 high current device trying to get power from that battery !
That tractor should have a SECOND battery, just for 'extra' stuff.... and a 'dual-diode' between the alternator and the batteries.

Not really a nightmare. 1 cable operates an auger swing that isn’t connected unless auger is connected to it and the second cable is for a kubota round baler only used in summer time. Instructions from Kubota state to connect this way. The rest is factory connections. Sure wasted a lot of money on this tractor and regretted buying it from day one. Must have been built on a Friday or maybe they are all built this poorly.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Start by removing all the non original battery connections and see what it does.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Do as NIW says AND properly clean the cable ends and every nut/bolt/washer that secures them. Also follow the ground and see does it go to the frame or connected very close to the starter ?

BTW, I counted SEVEN wires on the +ve post, 4 or 5 on the -ve and a lot of 'corrosion' .

It's unlikely you have an ohmmeter good for 0.001 ohms, let alone proper test leads. Lasty one I bought, I got a deal at $500 CDN, 3 decades ago. Usually you'll do a voltage drop test. As for cable resistance, check any online 'wire gauge' chart. It'll say xx ohms per yy feet. The charts I use are for 1,000' of wire, so best to go online.

The bottom line is ANY resistance, in either feed from battery is BAD news. V=I x R, so if you had 0. 1 ohm resistance and tried to pull 100 amps through it (starter amps) , you'd lose 10 volts in the wire, So 12 volt battery only supplies 2 volts to starter. Tractor WSM might(should) post the starter for amps(load ,no load ), I just used 100 as an easy example for the simple math involved. That's why ultra clean, proper connections and perfect cables are important.

 

[mcmxi]

Start by removing all the non original battery connections and see what it does.

Excellent advice here.

I run separate auxiliary fuse blocks from Painless Performance to power accessories. I have one under the hood of my Ford and another in a box waiting to go in the Jeep but might go in the boat this year depending on other upgrades.

 

[Dave_eng]

I’ve done all this and alternator is charging battery is a 13.5 volts in resting state and when starter is engaged is pulls down to 13.2 but engine is very slow turning over. Does anyone know the ohms of resistance in a new cable(battery to starter)? I’ll try doing some resistance testing as it turns over to determine if cables are faulty. Thanks

Denso has publishes a series of Starter Testing steps which I will attach.
If you can use a multimeter these steps will help you zero in on the bad joint(s) and cables.
I will also provide the charging system tests.
Dave

 

[rwhoppins]

I have rec'd the battery cable photos I asked you for.
Do the fix I suggested to this one connection and then try.
Post if it made a big difference
View attachment 121163

I will post the other photos so other forum members can review

Dave

Polished it clean and it was not that bad but still no difference. even tried a brand new 2 gauge ground cable, and still no difference. Definitely not a ground issue.

 

[mcmxi]

Polished it clean and it was not that bad but still no difference. even tried a brand new 2 gauge ground cable, and still no difference. Definitely not a ground issue.

And did you try what @North Idaho Wolfman suggested?

 

[rwhoppins]

Do as NIW says AND properly clean the cable ends and every nut/bolt/washer that secures them. Also follow the ground and see does it go to the frame or connected very close to the starter ?

BTW, I counted SEVEN wires on the +ve post, 4 or 5 on the -ve and a lot of 'corrosion' .

It's unlikely you have an ohmmeter good for 0.001 ohms, let alone proper test leads. Lasty one I bought, I got a deal at $500 CDN, 3 decades ago. Usually you'll do a voltage drop test. As for cable resistance, check any online 'wire gauge' chart. It'll say xx ohms per yy feet. The charts I use are for 1,000' of wire, so best to go online.

The bottom line is ANY resistance, in either feed from battery is BAD news. V=I x R, so if you had 0. 1 ohm resistance and tried to pull 100 amps through it (starter amps) , you'd lose 10 volts in the wire, So 12 volt battery only supplies 2 volts to starter. Tractor WSM might(should) post the starter for amps(load ,no load ), I just used 100 as an easy example for the simple math involved. That's why ultra clean, proper connections and perfect cables are important.

Start by removing all the non original battery connections and see what it does.

I did remove all non original equipment and still does the same thing. Cleaned all terminals, with wire brush, baking soda and vinegar. Still have same weak starting issue. And to clarify I do have proper test leads and ohm meter. Don't assume, you just made an ASS out of yourself this time.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

UMMM... Why am I an ASS?