Take an oil sample and send it out for analysis. The dealer has to have a great hearing to hear a high-speed knock in a diesel engine. I would be inclined to use the tractor for another 10 or 2o hours and then do another oil sample. If the sample comes back with bearing material in it, then you know that you have a problem. You might have taken some life off of that engine, but that doesn't mean that it is junk right now. I know of more than one person who blew a fan belt on a Corvair engine and overheated it, and some people said that the engine was junk, but they put another belt on it and drove it for many thousands of miles with no ill effects. Hell, if it turns out that it runs well now that there is new oil and filter in the engine, maybe it will be best to trade it in for a John Deere or another Kubota. Just don't go to the dealer who told you that you needed a new engine. Just make sure to put some months and hours on it before trading. If you buy a new Kubota, buy the KTAC insurance!
Low oil pressure shutdown?
- Thread starter Jday
- Start date
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
This 5 year old machine has already had an engine replacement. That seems strange in itself but apparently the engine is not seized. It holds 8.5 qts of oil and was down 4 so you did not run it bone dry.
If it runs and operates normally just use it. Get a good oil pressure gauge and monitor oil pressure. If there was significant damage pressure will be low and in all likelyhood will continue to drop pretty quickly with continued usage. If you see that you know things are significantly damaged and tanking fast.
I certainly would not be condemning it as long as its still running OK and has decent oil pressure and normal power.
Dan
Last edited:
^^^^^
It may not be necessary to remember ALL the symbols, but it IS incumbent of the operator to know the 'Important' ones.
In a sense there IS a Low Oil 'switch', it is the driver/operator when warned by the dash light. Turn the engine OFF immediately.
Very sorry to this happened to you.
OP several folks have touched on this. Did it take 4 quarts to fill the engine? Or did you only have 4 quarts and you don’t know how full that got it? If the former, my guess is the dealer really wants to sell you another engine (third one is a charm?).
You might run it as is and test the oil a couple times to determine if there really is anything wrong with the engine. Worst thing that happens is you need another engine. Better thing is you keep using it and hang on to your money.
You might run it as is and test the oil a couple times to determine if there really is anything wrong with the engine. Worst thing that happens is you need another engine. Better thing is you keep using it and hang on to your money.
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
I feel for the OP, and I kind of agree that there should be some sort of "low oil shutdown" feature.
Lets face it these machines are not like normal road vehicles. I have had my fuel filter knocked off and a couple of hydraulic hoses busted due to errant sticks/branchs.
After the "fuel filter incident", my first priority was to make filter guards to prevent exactly what happend to the the OP from happening to me. Had that stick that knocked off my fuel filter been 5 inchs more forward my oil filter would have taken the hit.
I just happened to get lucky,
Lets face it these machines are not like normal road vehicles. I have had my fuel filter knocked off and a couple of hydraulic hoses busted due to errant sticks/branchs.
After the "fuel filter incident", my first priority was to make filter guards to prevent exactly what happend to the the OP from happening to me. Had that stick that knocked off my fuel filter been 5 inchs more forward my oil filter would have taken the hit.
I just happened to get lucky,
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
This +1
I also agree with the "dealer heard a high rpm knock" also sounds iffy.
Run it like Dan said, and if it sh!ts out on you, you have not lost anything, you will be in the exact same position you are now......
But, it also might take 10 or 20 years for that to happen, who knows?
Edit: either way, you need to invest in filter guards though.
Last edited:
This +1
I also agree with the "dealer heard a high rpm knock" also sounds iffy.
Run it like Dan said, and if it sh!ts out on you, you have not lost anything, you will be in the exact same position you are now......
But, it also might take 10 or 20 years for that to happen, who knows?
Edit: either way, you need to invest in filter guards though.
Sorry about your troubles.
Out of curiosity I have to use a wrench to take off my filters. Knocked it loose with a branch? Maybe broke the filter off or punctured it? I'm interested in the back story
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Wow...SECOND engine in a 5 year old tractor ? Curious, I'd love to know WHY the 1st one was replaced. $22K sounds like a 'crate' engine swap,though as the owner I'd expect to keep ALL the old parts....
re: 'knock'. I'd drain the oil, replace filter , add all new oil,start up, check level, make a not of it, then run it for say 10-20 hours of your normal use, then recheck the oil level. If where it was,keep using the tractor. Every hour it runs is a FREE hour for you as the $22K repair bill is for a running or seized engine.
Re: low oil level shutdown. It's EASY on a small gas engine, they usually consist of a 'float' switch but designed to be used on fairly level surfaces and on stationary machines. I've had to disconnect the switch on engines I put on rototillers as engines would stop going uphill,run fine downhill. So you need some sort of sensor IN the sump for the computer to read.This gets complicated..oil can be hot, cold, thick, thin,level,pooled up front, on right side, etc. Probably put the 'sensor' in the 'sump' where the oil pickup is, but HOW do you calibrate for 'go, no-go' conditions ? You also have to have a manual override. Say you're going up a steep slope,you've often done before,but you're a little low on oil(just a smidge),computer shuts engine off.Can't restart engine,tractors on the hill,plow in the ground. HOW can YOU 'rescue' the tractor?
Really it's an engineering challenge and would be a huge cost to design,not worth the up front expense.
Can it be done, yes but at what cost ? Say it's a $4K upgrade. Would you buy it ?
I don't know of ANY car ,truck, tractor that has a 'low oil ' shutdown. Be interesting to see if there are and HOW 'they' do it.
dang googled this 'car low oil sensor -pressure', got 17 million+ hits. Seems BMW, Toy have them and LOTS of 'problems'......
re: 'knock'. I'd drain the oil, replace filter , add all new oil,start up, check level, make a not of it, then run it for say 10-20 hours of your normal use, then recheck the oil level. If where it was,keep using the tractor. Every hour it runs is a FREE hour for you as the $22K repair bill is for a running or seized engine.
Re: low oil level shutdown. It's EASY on a small gas engine, they usually consist of a 'float' switch but designed to be used on fairly level surfaces and on stationary machines. I've had to disconnect the switch on engines I put on rototillers as engines would stop going uphill,run fine downhill. So you need some sort of sensor IN the sump for the computer to read.This gets complicated..oil can be hot, cold, thick, thin,level,pooled up front, on right side, etc. Probably put the 'sensor' in the 'sump' where the oil pickup is, but HOW do you calibrate for 'go, no-go' conditions ? You also have to have a manual override. Say you're going up a steep slope,you've often done before,but you're a little low on oil(just a smidge),computer shuts engine off.Can't restart engine,tractors on the hill,plow in the ground. HOW can YOU 'rescue' the tractor?
Really it's an engineering challenge and would be a huge cost to design,not worth the up front expense.
Can it be done, yes but at what cost ? Say it's a $4K upgrade. Would you buy it ?
I don't know of ANY car ,truck, tractor that has a 'low oil ' shutdown. Be interesting to see if there are and HOW 'they' do it.
dang googled this 'car low oil sensor -pressure', got 17 million+ hits. Seems BMW, Toy have them and LOTS of 'problems'......
Last edited:
Thanks everyone. I’m going to get a second opinion before I do anything. I actually called the service people where I took it when it would not start and they advised me to put 4 quarts in it just to get it started so I could get it on my trailer. That’s why I thought it had a kill switch. I don’t know how much oil it actually needed. I only bought 4 quarts. I thought that’s what it held. The dipstick didn’t show any when I looked the first time. When I had gotten it to the traileri turned it off to get everything situated. When I went to start again it died so I assumed it had a low oil kill on it so I wasn’t worried about it at the time. So ya I guess I know better now. The battery was having a hard time turning it over so I assumed it was the kill switch. I put the oil in and jumped the battery to get it started to get on the trailer. The battery had been weak lately so I thought maybe it has finally died. It started right up when I jumped it. I guess looking back I should have done everything differently but honestly didn’t know any better. I still think all engines these days should have a kill switch if it will destroy an engine. I need to go to the dealer to grab it anyway so will update when I know more. You guys have been great. Thanks for all the help. I will update when I know more.
I didn’t see a few other replies before my last reply. The first engine was a whole other story I’m starting to think God don’t want me to have a tractor. Short story I bought it used and 30 min after purchase it crapped out after running great on my test drive. I’m not sure what happened with oil filter I do know when I restarted it was leaking oil like it had been shot. I was moving a ton of brush and beaches pretty aggressively so yeah I own that for sure. Never thought about the oil and hills and such that makes a lot of sense. Yes I am assuming the 22k is a crate motor. I’m thinking now of just running it for now or go the rebuild. Eventually I want to get a bigger tractor so definitely don’t want to put a ton of money in this one.
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Thats a little different story but bottom line is it starts and runs so it does not change my thinking.
If it starts and runs, low oil pressure light is working and goes off and stays off once started, and it does not show any loss of power use it. You could leave itcat that but I would also check and monitor actual oil pressure for signs of impending doom. If the low pil pressure light starts coming on prognosis is grim.
Dsn
I'd suggest following the advise of Dusty in post #21. Discover what damage the oil shows. It will cost about $30.
I have a friend who had a similar incident with a 70 HP tractor and he is also not very mechanically inclined. He was just going to trade the tractor in. I told him I'd put some Lucas oil additive in it and see what happens. That was about 10 years ago and he still uses the tractor. (And because he lacks mechanical ability and neglects a lot of items his tractor looks like it was dropped out of an air plane into a war zone!!)
I have a friend who had a similar incident with a 70 HP tractor and he is also not very mechanically inclined. He was just going to trade the tractor in. I told him I'd put some Lucas oil additive in it and see what happens. That was about 10 years ago and he still uses the tractor. (And because he lacks mechanical ability and neglects a lot of items his tractor looks like it was dropped out of an air plane into a war zone!!)
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
If the 'low oil pressure' light does come on, check the dipstick after say 10 minutes of being shutoff as it takes awhile for the oil to drain back down into the sump.
If dipstick says low, add the correct amount.
Now it is possible the 'low oil pressure' sensor could be defective. There are 2 types. One, is an 'on/off' version, another is 'analog'. I'd bench test the sensor or just replace it. It could be as simple as that...ONE bad sensor displaying the wrong data (think 737MAX-8 ).
It might be a 'bad' oil pump ? Based on the previous failure ? Should be possible to put a pressure gauge in parallel with the 'switch'.
Bottom line, there's a LOT you can try and do BEFORE draining your wallet of 22K greenbacks !
If dipstick says low, add the correct amount.
Now it is possible the 'low oil pressure' sensor could be defective. There are 2 types. One, is an 'on/off' version, another is 'analog'. I'd bench test the sensor or just replace it. It could be as simple as that...ONE bad sensor displaying the wrong data (think 737MAX-8 ).
It might be a 'bad' oil pump ? Based on the previous failure ? Should be possible to put a pressure gauge in parallel with the 'switch'.
Bottom line, there's a LOT you can try and do BEFORE draining your wallet of 22K greenbacks !
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
Jay, just off the top of my head, I would link it to the/a oil pressure sending unit.
If the unit pops the light, it shuts it down.
I'm not an engineer, but it doesn't seem too hard.
Besides at the rate of inflation, 4K wont buy you a loaf of bread soon, so it will seem like a bargain.
Runs With Scissors
Well-known member
Equipment
L2501 TLB , Grappel, Brush Hog, Box Blade, Ballast box, Forks, Tiller, PH digger
One thing you want to make sure of before running it though, is to ask if there is a "core charge".
If there is, and you run it and "throw a rod" through the block, it might cost you even more money because they might/will not accept your core.
It is expected that portable gensets, pumps, etc., will be operated for extended periods of time while unattended. Not so for tractors, cars, trucks, etc.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
re: linking to oil pressure sensor
Not the same really, you could have just enough oil for pump to supply oil BUT not the VOLUME needed to properly lube AND cool the engine.
One analogy is a well. Great volume and pressure all spring, then in mid summer,low water table = low volume of water, even though pressure is great, you 'run out of water'...until well refills.
You need xx GPM @ yy PSI to keep the engine 'happy'. If either go below minimum, bad things can happen.
Not the same really, you could have just enough oil for pump to supply oil BUT not the VOLUME needed to properly lube AND cool the engine.
One analogy is a well. Great volume and pressure all spring, then in mid summer,low water table = low volume of water, even though pressure is great, you 'run out of water'...until well refills.
You need xx GPM @ yy PSI to keep the engine 'happy'. If either go below minimum, bad things can happen.