Lost all overflow coolant. What the ?????

[OrangePower]

How many hours does it take others to lose all the coolant out of their over flow? I am at 230 and level went down to rubber tube, maybe even farther. I have added water but have not warmed it up to cycle the fluid, so, not sure if its beed sucking air or not. Comes up a little when warm (before I shut it off last), so, there is still "some" in the system.

 

[DaveFromMi]

Probably not a big deal considering the hours. Should fill it about 1/2 way and keep an eye on it.
Is there any evidence of coolant leakage...wet spots under tractor, leakage at hose and engine connections, bubbles when radiator cap is removed, engine running?

 

[OrangePower]

I threw a fresh piece of cardboard under her in the driveway and idled her for an hour, not a drop. I left her sitting for a day, not a drop.

I filled it up cold between the hot/cold mark ( a little too much, accidentally) and I will watch it. If it sucks that down, I am gonna have to fight the dealer for a new/replacement. I could have bought a used one for tens of thousands off to have this issue. I am not paying 25k to have someone at the dealer to take it in, throw an egg in the coolant and say its good, for me to deal with 5 years down the road. And no, I am not that kind of guy that would sell it off to an unsuspecting victim.

Day'um you Kubota!!

 

[BX25 Dave]

Several years ago, I let my neighbor borrow the beast to mow her yard. She got it hot and burned up the seal in the Water Pump. I changed the pump and all was well until recently. Same as Orange Power, 255 hours and the coolant disappears. No leaks or drops except for the overflow tube. It is getting warm, but not hot, I shut it down before that happens. No water in oil, just out the overflow. Add coolant and it comes back to normal. I was advised by a mechanic to change the thermostat (which I did not do before) to see if that will help.
Any other suggestions?

 

[imnukensc]

I threw a fresh piece of cardboard under her in the driveway and idled her for an hour, not a drop. I left her sitting for a day, not a drop.

I filled it up cold between the hot/cold mark ( a little too much, accidentally) and I will watch it. If it sucks that down, I am gonna have to fight the dealer for a new/replacement. I could have bought a used one for tens of thousands off to have this issue. I am not paying 25k to have someone at the dealer to take it in, throw an egg in the coolant and say its good, for me to deal with 5 years down the road. And no, I am not that kind of guy that would sell it off to an unsuspecting victim.

Day'um you Kubota!!

Simmer down. You don't even know if you have a problem yet and you're here pissin and moanin and whinin like a damn spoiled, little cry baby.

 

[DaveFromMi]

Another possibility is some air pocket left in the engine after coolant fill at the factory. Normally, the plant would use a vacuum fill process. If there was an in-plant repair, a vacuum process might not have been used.
There are several inexpensive coolant system pressure testers out there. The coolant system pressure is increased and you can check for leaks at when pressurized. If pressure holds steady for several minutes, then no leaks. If it takes excessive # of pumps to get to the test pressure and pressure holds, then you have an air pocket.
I am not familiar with the BX23. Does it have a vent or an air bleed valve?

 

[lugbolt]

First thing you need to know is how it works.

The cooling system has coolant in it, and is subject to temperatures ranging from roughly -10F to 250F. What do we know about temperature changes? Expansion. And contraction. Heated fluids tend to try to expand. Cooling fluids tend to lose the expansion, e.g. "contract". Your coolant is 50% water 50% ethylene glycol.

The radiator has a cap on it. That cap is not just a little dealie that holds coolant in. It's a pressure cap. Under the cap on the radiator is a nipple, with a hose on it, that leads to an overflow bottle (sometimes called a puke tank). The pressure cap works two functions. One, it allows pressurized coolant that is over the pressure cap's rated pressure relief, to escape to the puke tank. But, what many don't realize is that is also is a recovery cap. As the coolant cools down, it contracts. Remember that little bit of coolant that puked into the tank? As the system contracts, it will also open the cap's valve and allow coolant to be drawn BACK INTO the radiator, thus keeping the system full and mostly bled of any air (if everything is perfect).

So, what you have now, is a system that is bleeding itself of air, the pressure rises, pukes a little air and maybe a little coolant into the puke tank. Then as it cools off, it's drawing coolant back into the radiator from the tank, and your tank level will drop a little. After 230 hours worth of work (which seems high for a 2021 BX?) and 230 hours worth of heat cycling, yeah I can see it pulling quite a bit of coolant back in, especially now with winter in full swing in a lot of states (again, temp difference between summer and winter can cause this to happen too).

If after you clean the tractor up well, and run it to operating temp, then shut it down, and you don't see any evidence of any leaks, let it cool off, check the coolant in the radiator, refill if it wants any, then top the tank off and see what happens. You ever smell any coolant while running? Radiator ever been cleaned? Screen ever been cleaned?

it is perfectly normal for the tank to show low after a few heat cycles. Don't panic. If u cant see or smell any leaks anywhere, just refill it and go on about your business. That's awesome that you're actually checking it. most people don't. Be sure to keep the radiator and screen clean too.

 

[leveraddict]

How many hours does it take others to lose all the coolant out of their over flow? I am at 230 and level went down to rubber tube, maybe even farther. I have added water but have not warmed it up to cycle the fluid, so, not sure if its beed sucking air or not. Comes up a little when warm (before I shut it off last), so, there is still "some" in the system.

Dont add water get some green 50/50 mix coolant and like lugbolt said keep the radiator screen clean.

 

[GeoHorn]

Two hundred thirty hours..?? or Twenty-three-point-zero… ??

 

[GBJeffOH]

My zero turn used some when it was new. I think it had some air to work out.

 

[OrangePower]

Several years ago, I let my neighbor borrow the beast to mow her yard. She got it hot and burned up the seal in the Water Pump. I changed the pump and all was well until recently. Same as Orange Power, 255 hours and the coolant disappears. No leaks or drops except for the overflow tube. It is getting warm, but not hot, I shut it down before that happens. No water in oil, just out the overflow. Add coolant and it comes back to normal. I was advised by a mechanic to change the thermostat (which I did not do before) to see if that will help.
Any other suggestions?

There is only 5 places coolant can go, 6 if you want to add in the new machine burp scenario. 1) new machine and air needs to be burped out. "I" am presently awaiting for the final outcome of this scenario. 2) the engine block has a porosity issue, meaning the metal molecular structure is like sand, and the coolant weeps through the sand like structure, which, you should see on the ground or in the oil. I see it in neither place, in my case 3) headgasket is defective and coolant leaks into oil. My oil is clean. 4) headgasket is blown, as in scenario #3 and is NOT going into the oil but getting sucked into the combustion chamber and sent out the exhaust. 5) headgasket is leaking to the outside, which you would see on the ground. 6) leaking out through the hoses/loose hose clamps. I can not see/find any leaks.

My issue is it could be burping thats all that is needed. If the level does NOT go down again, then I am okay. If my antifreeze gets sucked out again, the engine is bad (warped block block/bad headgasket or bad /warped head or all the above).

I would say with yours, if your adding over and over and over, and the fact she got it that hot, your block and or head is warped and the headgasket has failed. Hopefully for you, thats all that has happened. To burn out a water pump seal, you would have to be VERY dry. You could have a cracked head and or block also. At this point, a top end tear down and inspection will need to be done. Same as mine if I keep losing coolant.

Simmer down. You don't even know if you have a problem yet and you're here pissin and moanin and whinin like a damn spoiled, little cry baby.

You give me $25k for a supposid trouble free tractor (why I paid so much) and I will give you something with a possible blown head gasket and we will see how you feel. I will give you an address to where you can come pick it up. Comes with a 2 year warrantee and YOU can also deal with the loss of a tractor while they are fixing it for 2 months, Deal? PM me big boy for the address and bring money order!

P.S. Has low hours and is a creampuff, you will like it.

First thing you need to know is how it works.

So, what you have now, is a system that is bleeding itself of air, the pressure rises, pukes a little air and maybe a little coolant into the puke tank.

Yes, I am a mechanic that rebuilds auto transmissions also, quite aware of how it works, but appreciate all you wrote for the next person.

Also, it had like 1-2 hours on the clock when I got it. I would assume it should have been burped by that time when they "supposedly" check for leaks and operation. Being it took 200+ hours for it to dissapear, of course they would not catch that, but, the burping "should have" been complete?? We will see in the next couple of rounds running her.

Two hundred thirty hours..?? or Twenty-three-point-zero… ??

230 hours

 

[OrangePower]

My zero turn used some when it was new. I think it had some air to work out.

Hi, thanks for stopping by.

I am hoping thats all it is. #1 reason for buying new was NO downtime for the next 2 years. If I was not worried about down time, I would have just bought a 1,000 hour 12k machine and delt with it.

I posted here to find out if this was a normal thing (though I know better), a TSB on the issue and see if others have had the same issue.

My fingers are crossed it is a burping issue.

 

[leveraddict]

I hear ya! I also bought new so I would be trouble free during an extensive redo of my entire property, My coolant level went down also in guessing just over 200 hours. Filled it up and its good. BTW change coolant every two years! I also needed to add a couple ounces of hydraulic fluid just after buying it. It was fine when delivered! All common things for your machine. NEXT your quick coupler might start dripping. Unhook it clean it well and reattach making sure top and bottom half are parallel to each other. If your too far away dont force it on. If it wont crank one day the plug going to the alternator is probably loose. I know of a few that has happened to including myself. Hang in there you bought a great little machine. I wouldnt trade mine for any other brand! Yes other brands all have their little quirks also!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Have a look at the cap on the coolant expansion tank ! There was a recall on them as the hole where the tube connects to the rad cap is blocked. What can happen is that instead of the hot coolant going into the tank , it evaporates into thin air. Might not be your problem, but something to look at. I got a new, free cap. It's yellow, original one was black ( or vice versa.....it's been 2 years...)
I have 690+ hours on my BX23S, only topped up the exp. tank 1-2 times.
While you're checking things, remove the fill cap on the front axle( left side ) see if there's ANY oil in there...THAT has been reported here a few times... Also be 100% sure ALL grease Zerks work and have LOTS of grease.

 

[OrangePower]

NEXT your quick coupler might start dripping.

Well, actually, my HST pump started whining like a power steering pump on a car with no oil when using the backhoe. Got to the point I stopped to check the fluid and saw drips. Drove it over to the garage to look it over and 2 of the big tractor side backhoe couplers were pinky finger tight. Tightened them up with a wrench, added 2-3 quarts (havnt checked the 5 gallon jug yet to see how much it was) of HST oil and back to work I went.

instead of the hot coolant going into the tank , it evaporates into thin air.

While you're checking things, remove the fill cap on the front axle( left side ) see if there's ANY oil in there...THAT has been reported here a few times...

Also be 100% sure ALL grease Zerks work and have LOTS of grease.

I have worked that tractor to no end and it doesnt seem to be hot (when I grab the top hose). I dont know if thats chemically possible at such a cool temp, but "Plausible".

I am gonna have to send it in to have the front axle checked at sometime. when I get on a slight side angle, the tractor starts grinding and feels like the front.....something isnt right. I dont have an exploded diagram, so, I dont know if there is bearings in there, gears or what. All I know is it doesnt sound/feel good.

I grease her about every 10-15 hours and depending on what I use. If I am using the bucket mostly on the weekend, I grease that part of her, etc. if it is divisional work, then maybe every 15 hours. Average has been 10 hours that everything gets a once over.

 

[lugbolt]

Yes, I am a mechanic that rebuilds auto transmissions also, quite aware of how it works, but appreciate all you wrote for the next person.





230 hours

You are welcome
since you are a transmission tech and seem to know your equipment better, then go figure it out. Or let the dealer do it if it's still within the warranty period.

you know how to check for blowed head gasket obviously, so get to it. Please post the results.

 

[OrangePower]

You are welcome
since you are a transmission tech and seem to know your equipment better, then go figure it out. Or let the dealer do it if it's still within the warranty period.

you know how to check for blowed head gasket obviously, so get to it. Please post the results.

I was serious about you writing all that stuff. That must have took a bit of time (unless your a fast typ-er), and appreciate you stopping in for advice.

Now, WHY should "I" have to do ANYTHING on a piece of brand new equipment? I didnt buy something at full price, no haggle to go on road trips to gather parts and testing tools. I didnt buy something brand new to put me behind schedule another 2 month after I waited a FULL YEAR+ ALREADY for a BX2601 (which they never got in) and had to settle for a shtty BX23s? Yea, I am pissed about THAT, but I swallowed it to get things done.

Now this? Yea, I am inquisitively pissed



Tell you what.... You waste time going to the auto stores, find/buy a working coolant pressure leakdown tester, bring it over on a sunday night and test it for a day or 2, but, do you really think you will see a leakdown of 16oz(?) in 1-2 days that took in 200+ hour, or, a one month work hours at 8 hours a day??

or

Bring me a loaner tractor (with backhoe) the day I send mine to the dealer while they figure out the issue. I will even change the oil in it (up to 5 quarts).

Either scenario is fine with me, just PM me for meet up details when you decide which scenario you would like to go with.


Now, if you will kindly excuuuuuuuse me, I am going out to change the oil in the tractor and run for for another 8 hours to see whats up.

 

[mike paulson]

Coolant does evaporate when discharged from a hot radiator to the overflow. 230 hrs and having to fill the overflow doesn't sound too out of the ordinary. I'm a retired Diesel mechanic and adding a quart or more to overflows on transit buses every oil change is normal. Those motors do 400 k before rebuilding.

 

[Daren Todd]

I had similar once on a large Doosan forklift. Think it was at around 130 to 150 hrs on the unit. Had to add a gallon or so of coolant to it.

It's a cabbed unit with heat and AC. Figured it was just purging the last of the air out of the system. Granted it had just cooled off and it was right after we turned the heat on that first time. Topped everything up haven't had to add a drop since.

Your unit probably doesn't have a blown head gasket with that low hours. Kubota's are extremely reliable. Granted you get the odd duck that was built on a Monday morning, or a new guy at the factory that had inflated their qualifications.

One thing that I do with all my new equipment at work is to run it under a load up to operating temperature. I then shut it down and go back and tighten all the hose clamps on the cooling system. That extra quarter to half a turn you get once heat expands the clamps can make a huge difference.

I've had drips before that would only show up while the engine is under a heavy load (generating extra heat). Once the heavy load was removed, the leak would go away

 

[OrangePower]

Coolant does evaporate when discharged from a hot radiator to the overflow. 230 hrs and having to fill the overflow doesn't sound too out of the ordinary. I'm a retired Diesel mechanic and adding a quart or more to overflows on transit buses every oil change is normal. Those motors do 400 k before rebuilding.

Technically, glycol does not evaporate. If anything, the water in it does, unless the tech teachers and product salesman lied to me.

Yes, hence the question " How many hours does it take others to lose all the coolant out of their over flow? " in my first post. I was giving benefit of the doubt to the issue before using diagnostic troubleshooting results.

Would have been interesting to take samples from one of the bus's radiator to see what the glycol/water concentrations were, and then compare them every oil change to see what was being lost, water or glycol.

I had similar once on a large Doosan forklift. Think it was at around 130 to 150 hrs on the unit. Had to add a gallon or so of coolant to it.

It's a cabbed unit with heat and AC. Figured it was just purging the last of the air out of the system. Granted it had just cooled off and it was right after we turned the heat on that first time. Topped everything up haven't had to add a drop since.

Your unit probably doesn't have a blown head gasket with that low hours. Kubota's are extremely reliable. Granted you get the odd duck that was built on a Monday morning, or a new guy at the factory that had inflated their qualifications.

One thing that I do with all my new equipment at work is to run it under a load up to operating temperature. I then shut it down and go back and tighten all the hose clamps on the cooling system. That extra quarter to half a turn you get once heat expands the clamps can make a huge difference.

I've had drips before that would only show up while the engine is under a heavy load (generating extra heat). Once the heavy load was removed, the leak would go away

Yea, extra hard work was another thing I was thinking about too, and, scared of as the dealer would never find it, unless like I said, they did a good week of coolant leakdown testing.

Hoping it is nothing, but, we will see in another 200 hours.