looking for well pump advice. Updated!!!!!

[fried1765]

Thats not a deep well. Mine is 640', the pump is set at 580' recovery is 2 GPM, and my 2 HP pump can be seeing 500' of head. As the plumber that did the original install discovered (x3) a 1/2 HP pump has the lifespan of a June bug.

Dan

Not true!
Mirriam Webster defines a "deep well" as anything over 22'
22' and less, is a "shallow well".........suction well.

All wells are not created equally!
180' v/s 580' is a major pumping capability difference!
My Goulds 1/2 HP hanging at 180', and using an 80 gallon bladder tank, is going strong at 17 years!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Not true!
Mirriam Webster defines a "deep well" as anything over 22'
22' and less, is a "shallow well".........suction well.

All wells are not created equally!
180' v/s 580' is a major pumping capability difference!
My Goulds 1/2 HP hanging at 180', and using an 80 gallon bladder tank, is going strong at 17 years!

Appatently I need to work on my communication skills. That was exactly my point

Dan

 

[Biker1mike]

Short answer is call a well company.
Long answer is call a well company and get out your checkbook.

I have had a few well issues. The easy was a broken pipe due to a poor install. The worst was having to drill down another 200 feet and get a bigger pump $$$.

 

[dirtydeed]

all good comments above. when checking the pressure switch, be sure to take a look at the water supply to the pressure switch. I've seen them completely plugged with sediment before (rendering the pressure switch inoperable). look at the small piece of pipe indicated by the red arrow in Cisco's pic above.

there are loads of youtube videos on how to test the pressure switch.

Just did this one a few weeks ago:

old:

new:

Really not that complicated. If it is in fact the pump itself, I'd replace the electric line (down hole) and the poly pipe as well. Just match up the length to the existing well (you really don't want it deeper or shallower). May want to replace the rope as well with new poly. You can transfer over the torque arresters (if your existing line has them).

edit: forgot to mention that if you have a steel well casing (and sometimes pvc like the one we fabricated above) you'll likely have to deal with a pitless adaptor. You need T pulling post (or with your skills, can fab one up).

 

[fried1765]

all good comments above. when checking the pressure switch, be sure to take a look at the water supply to the pressure switch. I've seen them completely plugged with sediment before (rendering the pressure switch inoperable). look at the small piece of pipe indicated by the red arrow in Cisco's pic above.

there are loads of youtube videos on how to test the pressure switch.

Just did this one a few weeks ago:

old:

View attachment 103246

new:

View attachment 103247

Really not that complicated. If it is in fact the pump itself, I'd replace the electric line (down hole) and the poly pipe as well. Just match up the length to the existing well (you really don't want it deeper or shallower). May want to replace the rope as well with new poly. You can transfer over the torque arresters (if your existing line has them).

edit: forgot to mention that if you have a steel well casing (and sometimes pvc like the one we fabricated above) you'll likely have to deal with a pitless adaptor. You need T pulling post (or with your skills, can fab one up).

Many places require rigid conduit for that electric line when above ground.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Many places require rigid conduit for that electric line when above ground.

Yes, and many places require a steel casing too, but sometimes you got to do, what you got to do, to fix odd and broken setups!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Thanks guys.

I just got my induction style ammeter, so I think I have everything I need to troubleshoot this.

DD, I will be sure to keep an eye out for a plugged tube. I put a "triple filter system" on when we first bought the place and the clear sediment filter traps a TON of sediment, so this tube you pointed out could very well be plugged.

 

[Smokeydog]

Part of the rural life is getting to know the who does what. Learning what you can do and what you need help with. With three old farm houses have a little of all types of plumbing made in the last 150 years. Challenging my chemical engineering skills. In my 50 years of being here never had a plumber or electrician.

We are unique that our deep well pump lays horizontally in our spring house. Spring house was the homestead water source and refrigerator 350 years ago. 1.5hp 14 stage pump, pumps about 45 minutes a day up 270’ head, 2500’ run to a cistern at a house on top of the hill. Back pressure feeds two cabins and farm. Separate pump draws from the cistern to feed the the house. Remarkable trouble free. Pumps last 20+ years. Quality components are getting harder to source in a global economy.

Water plus electricity is a harsh teacher. Need to learn good safeguards. Spring house has friendly spiders the size of your hand. Always in awe of the depth of knowledge, skills, work ethic of those who came before us.

 

[GeoHorn]

Most submersibles don't go to the bottom of the well, they only need to be set below the draw down depth.

Yep! My 620’ deep well has the pump set at 220’ and despite neighbors all around me having their wells run dry during the current drought, mine continues to produce fine, clear, great-tasting water at 20 gpm. Hire a professional. You’ll be glad you did, and you’ll learn all about your well by watching and talking with him. And, oh yeah,….if not already…. install a GFCI breaker on that well. No reason to want a shock while showering.

Don’t be surprised to need a new pump, new 4-wire cable, new check-valve and SS couplers, new press-sw, new press-tank, if your present ones are 20 yrs old.…. about $4K+ for good quality equipt.

 

[DustyRusty]

Not true!
Mirriam Webster defines a "deep well" as anything over 22'
22' and less, is a "shallow well".........suction well.

All wells are not created equally!
180' v/s 580' is a major pumping capability difference!
My Goulds 1/2 HP hanging at 180', and using an 80 gallon bladder tank, is going strong at 17 years!

Who cares what Mirriam has to say? He isn't a member here!

 

[fried1765]

Who cares what Mirriam has to say? He isn't a member here!

They (brothers) are defacto members here...... in everything we say....or TRY to communicate!

 

[GrizBota]

Who cares what Mirriam has to say? He isn't a member here!

Mirriam knows math. Can’t suck harder than atmospheric pressure can push (about 34 ft with no losses). With losses maybe 28 ft with great equipment or 22 ft with commonly available equipment).

 

[fried1765]

Mirriam knows math. Can’t suck harder than atmospheric pressure can push (about 34 ft with no losses). With losses maybe 28 ft with great equipment or 22 ft with commonly available equipment).

True!

 

[trial and error]

All these are good answers, if there is a "Low pressure cut off switch" aka that lever on the side of the pressure switch others have referred to be wary. They are ussually installed on low volume wells. Both of the wells on my wells on my parentssingle property have them and they have low recovery on both wells. . I am in the water treatment bussiness (light commercial and but primarily resudential) and see dozens of well/pressure switch setups a week. And see very few low pressure cuttof switches. Whoever mentioned plugged lines is a genius that will burn a pump up quick becuase the pressure switch cannot satisfy thus the pump will run and run and run and eventually something has to give be it the pump the well line ( which you can't always see ) or both 1" poly line aka well line is perfectly suitable and widely used in the "king of codes" aka NYS so I wouldn't worry about using it in any well application. If you do pull the pump and that's what it is, I may suggest setting it a few feet higher to keep from stirring up as much sediment (you mentioned a sediment filter that you have picking up a fair amount of sediment in the house) thats not even showing you what is settling in the pressure tank and only part of what the pump is seeing . So if you can minimize that in the future it is better for the pump. Brands I don't have any suggestions but I do know a thing or two about wells and most everyone here has given sound solid advice
Edit: if you have sulfer some of what your sediment filter may be picking up may be sulfer and that is unavoidable no matter the height the pump is set at as it stays suspended longer/ easier then actual sediment/ sand etc

 

[olddude]

Good day. I have a 220’ well which has had a pump replaced 1 time in the 24 yrs I’ve owned the place. You can check your neighbors story in depth if the number is stamped on the cover of the casing that comes out of the ground…at least where I am at the depth is stamped on it…maybe different other places?
Whether this is normal residence or weekend place, but especially weekend place I’d check the power circuit breaker and see if circuits and all power on…nothing kicked off correct?

I’d think if there is no pressure from pressure tank I would think the pump would just keep running…if pump not running need to figure out if out of power or just no workee.

I’ve had good luck with a Gould pump. I think they are decent but I am no expert. Be causations with the black pipe as it can deteriorate if shocking too much…black pipe and chlorine usually not a good combination. PVC would be better…maybe a plumber or well digger will chime in.
Assuming you have a submersible, typically the pipe is pulled up (you will realize soon you are not as young as used to be) and then replace pump and set back. Depending on the why pump failed maybe consider if ran out of water and seized up…they can check and put a scope down there to see if good depth and flow of water…the. Maybe they can just replace pump, if that is what it is.

good luck.

PVC is not a good choice as it's too stiff and it would really be a bear to get out if you ever needed to pull the pump. Around here they always use the black plastic pipe and normally it will be a 1" to 11/4" pipe, sometimes even up to 11/2" in some cases. The pipe needs to flex as it is being pulled upward, a piece of 1" pvc would probably break before you got it 30' up because it's to ridgid and dosen't like to bend much. When you are pulling the cord that is attached to the pump you are also pulling the wire that powers the pump as well as the pump and pipe itself. Don't pull the pump by the pipe or the power wire= bad idea.
You probably will need to have a helper as you pull on the pull cord because as it is pulled upward someone needs to streach it out on the ground and out of the way, 300' is a lot of pipe and wire.
personally I have never seen black water pipe deteriorate it's some really tough stuff of-course there may be some cheaper brands out there than you would get at a good plumbing supply house. One of the biggest threats to a deep well pump is lightning close by or just plane running dry and burning itself up. They are pretty tough and most will last 20 and even as much as 30 years before they quit. I don't have a deep well but the pump that's in my well is just over 30 years old and still going strong and it's had a pretty hard life. one year we had a earthquake and it did something to my well and it filled in 20' and 10' over where the pump was. It kept pumping away and I didn't know there was a problem until my house filter got so stopped up and went into bypass and caused the water to look like mud in the house. I raised it up 20' and it's still going.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

First off I would like to thank everyone that responded very much!!!!

I read each response and formulated an attack plan based on all the "What if" scenarios, but like Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan, until you get punched in the face."

Well I get up there late Thursday night, so I decide to wait until Friday morning to look at things.

The first thing I do is to make sure the correct breaker was selected by my lovely wife, and it was. So all hope of the simplest solution goes up in smoke. LOL

So I pop the hatch on the crawl space and with my 5 gallon Bucket-O-Tools, I set up shop.

The first pic is of my set up.

First thing is to check for power. Power is there.

The next thing I do is to pop the cap on the pressure switch and visually inspect it, being extra careful not to touch anything.

BAM!!!!!

I'm not sure if you can see it in the pics but it appears as if a bug got in-between the contacts and got the "Julias and Ethel Rosenburg" treatment. So first thing I do is cut the power (and double check'ed it)

Some light sanding of all the contacts with some 80 grit cleans them up good enough for now. So I turn the power back on and the pump fires up immediately.

The cheering and applause in my head are deafening. I was so relieved that it was the switch.

But my victory is short lived.................

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Since I decided to replace the switch anyway, I cut the power and headed into town to get a new switch.

Since I am the guy that has to do any "warranty labor", I dislike installing inferior parts. So I head to the local plumbing supply store to get a "good switch".

I have dealt with these guys before and I like supporting local business's when I can so I ask the counter guy for a 40 to 60 psi switch and without hesitation he reaches under the counter and plops one down......That right there, tells me that these go bad quite often...hahahah

Back to the hole Paul....

From the advice here, when I removed the switch, I inspected the pipe leading to the switch and although it wasn't technically plugged, I cleaned it out a bit,

 

[DustyRusty]

Since I decided to

The suspense is killing me, did he Run with scissors and fall? The switch looks like it was wired by a mature electrician with arthritis in his hands.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I cleaned the threads up a little, pipe doped them and screwed the new switch on.

The wires had some minor corrosion on them so I cleaned them up a little with the sandpaper and decided to slop some dielectric grease on the connections as a preventative measure. That stuff is like Frank's Red Hot, "I put that sh!t on everything!' hahahahahh