looking for well pump advice. Updated!!!!!

[Runs With Scissors]

Well the wife went up to the cottage this weekend and sure enough, there was no water pressure.

We are on a well of course, and I am a Citidiot, so I have no experience with a well.

My Google-Fu skills have given me a basic understanding of how a well pump works, but I'm looking for some "advice" on some "what if "scenarios.

I have no problem checking the pressure switch and troubleshooting out to the well "spout" (Not sure what the pipe that comes out of the ground is technically called).

The neighbors built the house about 16 years ago, and have told me that the pump is about 300 ft deep. I am located about 1,000 yards from Lake Huron and according to the neighbors they originally found water at 96 ft. , but code in the area is 100 ft, so they made them drill until they got to 300 Ft. (that sounds NUTS to me but whatever)

I have no idea if this is a "ghost story" or not, but we have a very good relationship with them so I believe them.

1......Are there any "in general" "gotchas" to look out for?

If the pressure switch and line going out to the pump are good, and it turns out to be the pump

2.....any recommendations on pump brands to buy/steer clear of?

3.....If pump needs to be replaced, any guidance on pipe type (i.e steel/pvc/black pipe)...?

4........If it's a bad pump, would you just drop the pump at 96 feet and say "to hell with the code"

I hate doing stuff twice, so I'm good with spending the money for good stuff.

Paul

 

[Pawnee]

Is it a submersible pump in the bottom of the well or a jet pump which would be above ground?

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Good day. I have a 220’ well which has had a pump replaced 1 time in the 24 yrs I’ve owned the place. You can check your neighbors story in depth if the number is stamped on the cover of the casing that comes out of the ground…at least where I am at the depth is stamped on it…maybe different other places?
Whether this is normal residence or weekend place, but especially weekend place I’d check the power circuit breaker and see if circuits and all power on…nothing kicked off correct?

I’d think if there is no pressure from pressure tank I would think the pump would just keep running…if pump not running need to figure out if out of power or just no workee.

I’ve had good luck with a Gould pump. I think they are decent but I am no expert. Be causations with the black pipe as it can deteriorate if shocking too much…black pipe and chlorine usually not a good combination. PVC would be better…maybe a plumber or well digger will chime in.
Assuming you have a submersible, typically the pipe is pulled up (you will realize soon you are not as young as used to be) and then replace pump and set back. Depending on the why pump failed maybe consider if ran out of water and seized up…they can check and put a scope down there to see if good depth and flow of water…the. Maybe they can just replace pump, if that is what it is.

good luck.

 

[DustyRusty]

Check the normal stuff such as a bad circuit breaker. If the power side of the pump is ok, then go out to the well and check the electrical connections there. If there is a lever at the side of the pressure switch, move that to see if the pump comes to life. Most likely it is something small, and I doubt that it is the pump, but it could be one of the items inside of the pump control box located in the new where the electrical panel is. If it isn't simple, ask your neighbor who he would recommend for well service. If the service company tells you that you need a new pump or some other expensive item, get a second opinion. My pump is 40 years old and still going strong and it is 300' down the well. I did all my own well service, but now I am too old to do it. Pulling a pump up 300' requires modern equipment or a few very strong men. My guess is that it is a component in the well control box that has gone bad such a the capacitor.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There are multiple scenarios to a well not working.

No power, blown fuse, tripped breaker.
Bad pressure switch
Bad controller
Bad Pump
Pull the well head cover and check the wire connections there too.
Pump could be working yet water pipe has been damaged.

Wells are commonly drilled below depth of first water and deeper if that flow is low as it will give you a reserve of water.
So no you would never shorten a well pump drop length.
You would either need to know the depth of the pump or pull and match depth of the pump.

Not all well equipment is the same:
For our well, We have a digital pump and controller.
Essentially the pump only runs as hard as it needs to in order for it to supply the right amount of water.
Saves a lot of money over time, but they are more expensive to buy.
It also only uses a 2 1/2 gallon ballast tank, so much less bulk.

You'll need to know several things in order to get the right pump:
You'll need to know size of casing, size of well line, and size of pump (1/2 HP, 3/4, 1HP so on).
How many check valves does it need?
If you need to replace the pump, replace the controller at the same time!
I personally would use POLY pipe, the easiest to work with, also will need to replace the drop wire, that will probably run you as much as the pump.
Some pumps require a rotation arrestor.
And when installing a new pump always use a new poly rope tied to the pump, it will save your bacon if something ever happened to the pipe or wire!

 

[CiscoRanger]

Pictures of your setup would help a lot. There's not that much to wells and well pumps, but they can be set up in different configurations. Well pumps do go bad, but more times than not, something else is the issue.

Usually, a well pump at your depth is going to be submersible. It is at the end of the pipe, and the power wires are taped every so many feet all the way down that pipe to the well pump.

At the top end of those wires is the controller or control box. It usually contains a relay, a capacitor, and sometimes a pump saver. The wires from the breaker box will terminate there, as well as the wires from the pump. This is a basic controller:

The last set of wires going into the control box are usually either a float switch, or a pressure switch. If your well pumps into an atmospheric tank (not a welded pressure tank), there will be a float switch inside the tank. If the well pipes directly to the house, you should have a welded pressure tank, and a pressure switch on the pipe that goes to that pressure tank. These are common:

What of all that that you have, dictates how you would track down the problem.

Of the few wells I've worked on, the pump saver went bad on one, capacitor on one, the tape failed and shorted the wires on one, 3 failed or corroded pressure switches, one failed float switch, and only one failed pump. Hope that helps.

 

[fried1765]

Well the wife went up to the cottage this weekend and sure enough, there was no water pressure.

We are on a well of course, and I am a Citidiot, so I have no experience with a well.

My Google-Fu skills have given me a basic understanding of how a well pump works, but I'm looking for some "advice" on some "what if "scenarios.

I have no problem checking the pressure switch and troubleshooting out to the well "spout" (Not sure what the pipe that comes out of the ground is technically called).

The neighbors built the house about 16 years ago, and have told me that the pump is about 300 ft deep. I am located about 1,000 yards from Lake Huron and according to the neighbors they originally found water at 96 ft. , but code in the area is 100 ft, so they made them drill until they got to 300 Ft. (that sounds NUTS to me but whatever)

I have no idea if this is a "ghost story" or not, but we have a very good relationship with them so I believe them.

1......Are there any "in general" "gotchas" to look out for?

If the pressure switch and line going out to the pump are good, and it turns out to be the pump

2.....any recommendations on pump brands to buy/steer clear of?

3.....If pump needs to be replaced, any guidance on pipe type (i.e steel/pvc/black pipe)...?

4........If it's a bad pump, would you just drop the pump at 96 feet and say "to hell with the code"

I hate doing stuff twice, so I'm good with spending the money for good stuff.

Paul

I have always had a private well.
I currently have a 22' shallow well, (at the bottom of a 10' pit) that I installed myself in 1965.
I have had a house with 220 well, and a house with a 336' well.

Your neighbor obviously hired the original well driller.
The simple answer is to ask them for the installers phone number.
Give that guy a call, and have him diagnose the problem.
It could be any one of the above scenarios.
Without personal well/pump experience, a local professional will likely save you money, and will certainly save you some frustration.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well the wife went up to the cottage this weekend and sure enough, there was no water pressure.

We are on a well of course, and I am a Citidiot, so I have no experience with a well.

My Google-Fu skills have given me a basic understanding of how a well pump works, but I'm looking for some "advice" on some "what if "scenarios.

I have no problem checking the pressure switch and troubleshooting out to the well "spout" (Not sure what the pipe that comes out of the ground is technically called).

The neighbors built the house about 16 years ago, and have told me that the pump is about 300 ft deep. I am located about 1,000 yards from Lake Huron and according to the neighbors they originally found water at 96 ft. , but code in the area is 100 ft, so they made them drill until they got to 300 Ft. (that sounds NUTS to me but whatever)

I have no idea if this is a "ghost story" or not, but we have a very good relationship with them so I believe them.

1......Are there any "in general" "gotchas" to look out for?

If the pressure switch and line going out to the pump are good, and it turns out to be the pump

2.....any recommendations on pump brands to buy/steer clear of?

3.....If pump needs to be replaced, any guidance on pipe type (i.e steel/pvc/black pipe)...?

4........If it's a bad pump, would you just drop the pump at 96 feet and say "to hell with the code"

I hate doing stuff twice, so I'm good with spending the money for good stuff.

Paul

Thats not uncommon. Check for power at the pressure switch. If you have power try to reset the pressure switch. If no water flows when you manually operate the trip on the switch call a pump service. Watch and learn when they show up.

Dan

 

[Mark_BX25D]

You can check your neighbors story in depth if the number is stamped on the cover of the casing that comes out of the ground…at least where I am at the depth is stamped on it…maybe different other places?

Not where I live, but then, lots of things were not done to code or even good practices when my house was built.

Your neighbors obviously hired the original well driller.
The simple answer is to ask them for the installers phone number.
Give that guy a call, and have him diagnose the problem.

Tried that with my original well. The company name was written in Magic Marker on the pressure tank. (Yeah, quality organization!) They couldn't tell me a thing.


Now, I didn't post those two comments just to disagree with these gentlemen, but to point out there are a lot of regional variables. Folks here have asked a lot of questions for that very reason. Some pics would be great.

The advice already given to check the power is excellent, and a great place to start.


But calling a pro is sometimes the best way to go, unless you want to dig in and get educated on wells.

 

[fried1765]

Not where I live, but then, lots of things were not done to code or even good practices when my house was built.



Tried that with my original well. The company name was written in Magic Marker on the pressure tank. (Yeah, quality organization!) They couldn't tell me a thing.


Now, I didn't post those two comments just to disagree with these gentlemen, but to point out there are a lot of regional variables. Folks here have asked a lot of questions for that very reason. Some pics would be great.

The advice already given to check the power is excellent, and a great place to start.


But calling a pro is sometimes the best way to go, unless you want to dig in and get educated on wells.

Maybe the original installer is no longer available 16 years later, but if this is an area of private wells, there will be several other local installers, because other people have occasional well problems too.
Ask your neighbor for a recommendation.

 

[jimh406]

My house has a well at about 300 ft as well, actually 275. My well started acting up and would run a while and stop and blow the fuses. I got a well guy out that was recommended. He was not the person who installed the last pump.

He pulled the pump and noted it was a low end pump. That pump was the was the minimum power and quality level to work for that depth. I picked his brain as he was putting the new higher quality higher HP pump in. He pointed out all that was done wrong including how the attached the pipes to feed the wire down to that depth.

Any way, his suggestion was don't cheap out in HP and don't cheap out on "quality level". Replacing a deep pump isn't cheap from a labor perspective. The difference in price for a higher HP motor and better quality isn't that much. According to my well guy, it's much better to have a higher HP pump, so that it never works that hard and the higher quality last longer. To me, it's kind of like remodel grade carpet vs live in grade carpet. The remodel grade will work a while but isn't that much cheaper than the live in grade.

As always, YMMV.

 

[DustyRusty]

My water well pump installer was a nitwit, brain-dead idiot to take on the job. Took all the time in the world, and almost 3 weeks later the pump was operational. That is why next time I will call a professional to do the job. The best of all of this is that he never got paid for the job. That was the last time that I will ever install a pump myself.

 

[cthomas]

Not to be that guy but, maybe the well is dry? Also poly pipe is easy to work with, but copper pipe you can hook a welder to "thaw" the pipe out. Only had to do this once but cheaper than digging the pipe up to thaw it out. The pipe is 10 feet down in the ground and it did freeze up. It was a combination of really cold winter, low water usage, and water line goes under the driveway(no snow cover).

 

[D2Cat]

My water well pump installer was a nitwit, brain-dead idiot to take on the job. Took all the time in the world, and almost 3 weeks later the pump was operational. That is why next time I will call a professional to do the job. The best of all of this is that he never got paid for the job. That was the last time that I will ever install a pump myself.

Don't be so hard on yourself! Some of the best lessons are from experience.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Not to be that guy but, maybe the well is dry? Also poly pipe is easy to work with, but copper pipe you can hook a welder to "thaw" the pipe out. Only had to do this once but cheaper than digging the pipe up to thaw it out. The pipe is 10 feet down in the ground and it did freeze up. It was a combination of really cold winter, low water usage, and water line goes under the driveway(no snow cover).

Our main line is 1 1/2" poly at about 300' total.
And a branch line that is another 250'
If I ran copper it would have cost me $11,282.00 just for the line.

 

[Vlach7]

You will need to either call somebody that works on well pumps or post many pictures of your system because there are too many possible scenarios of your system including secondary above ground pressure pumps, put my neighbors well from 160 to 320 deep not fun or easy very difficult and it’s only pumping minimal due to drought, good luck.

 

[Motion]

Most submersibles don't go to the bottom of the well, they only need to be set below the draw down depth.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I unfortunately don't have pictures cause my wife simply refused to go in to the crawl space ...LOL

Hahahah....I said "Hey Babe, just go into the crawl and get some pics"

Her reply was simple and instant....... "F*** You!"

My set up looks a lot like CiscoRanger's set up. It has the Blue "Accumulator" tank with a pressure switch and gauge. (Thanks for those pics BTW)

I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst, but obviously hoping for a simpler, less expensive solution.

On a good note, I did get to justify a induction style ammeter to check the current draw.

 

[fried1765]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I unfortunately don't have pictures cause my wife simply refused to go in to the crawl space ...LOL

Hahahah....I said "Hey Babe, just go into the crawl and get some pics"

Her reply was simple and instant....... "F*** You!"

My set up looks a lot like CiscoRanger's set up. It has the Blue "Accumulator" tank with a pressure switch and gauge. (Thanks for those pics BTW)

I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst, but obviously hoping for a simpler, less expensive solution.

On a good note, I did get to justify a induction style ammeter to check the current draw.


View attachment 103212

FWIW:
Pump cycling is an issue.
Size (HP) of the pump is really not all that important, unless you need quick water volume.
My last deep well ( had less than 2 gpm well recovery ) and had the pump set at 180'.
We used a 1/2 HP (Goulds) pump, and a "pump saver", plus an 80 gallon bladder tank.
The idea being to keep the pump running for longer periods ( number of motor starts minimized), between starts, but with the pump saver never allowing the pump to run dry.
The pump saver never did need to activate, with that 1/2 HP pump, and the 80 gal. bladder tank in the system.

 

[TheOldHokie]

FWIW:
Pump cycling is an issue.
Size (HP) of the pump is really not all that important, unless you need quick water volume.
My last deep well ( had less than 2 gpm well recovery ) and had the pump set at 180'.
We used a 1/2 HP (Goulds) pump, and a "pump saver", plus an 80 gallon bladder tank.
The idea being to keep the pump running for longer periods ( number of motor starts minimized), between starts, but with the pump saver never allowing the pump to run dry.
The pump saver never did need to activate, with that 1/2 HP pump, and the 80 gal. bladder tank in the system.

Thats not a deep well. Mine is 640', the pump is set at 580' recovery is 2 GPM, and my 2 HP pump can be seeing 500' of head. As the plumber that did the original install discovered (x3) a 1/2 HP pump has the lifespan of a June bug.

Dan