locate buried disconnected electrical wire

[D2Cat]

I have electrical service from the panel at the power pole going into my barn. I've lost power somewhere between the breaker at the pole and the barn, a distance of 200'.

Is there a fault locator that doesn't cost a fortune I can use to find the break?

Line is buried about 20-24". It's the direct bury wire like used in oil fields.

The power company had an independent contractor install hundreds of new poles a couple of years ago. The pole with my panel was replaced and I'm wondering if there may be a problem near that pole.

I called an electrical supply house to find a contractor who had the equipment. I called one. I don't know what he had, but he said he was good and quick at finding problems like that. When I asked about cost he said 3 to 4 hours at $95 ea. plus 4-6 splices for $90. He would dig it up and splice it. So if my math is OK, 360 + 90= 450.

 

[yoteantidote]

Was the breaker that feeds your barn tripped?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[85Hokie]

Len,

this 240? if so - can you check each leg of the 120?
Has there been any activity in the field ? I bet you have a bad connection at one end or the other?

the breaker is on the pole? 200 feet away? I would check that main too

 

[Missouribound]

I have worked in the maintenance field for many years. The equipment you are talking about is very expensive....from $2500-$4000. At that depth you need specialized equipment. That being said......as long as you have unprotected buried cable you could have a chance of this happening again.
The best solution, if you can afford it is to bury a pipe for the feed to the barn.
I understand that is expensive but if the wire is protected the lifespan of the wire is nearly forever unless you severely overload the circuit. Do you have the capability of digging a trench and installing the pipe yourself? If you can you will do most of the work. Let the electrician do the hookup.
But if money is the issue now....pay the electrician to fix it and hope for the best. How old is this wire?

 

[D2Cat]

Out at the power pole by the road there is a meter with a panel and 100 amp breaker in it.

There are 3 wires leaving there down through a conduit and a foot or so under ground the wires are no longer in conduit. These wires are about the diameter of your little finger and the insulation is almost impossible to cut without a saw. They are awkward to work with they are so tough.

Wires run in trench about 20" deep about 160' to a silo where a junction box is located. A conduit goes up from that box to a yard light 40' in the air.

The 3 wires continue into the barn another 40' into a panel with individual breakers.

About 6 weeks ago I noticed the 220 Volt timer (like a water heater mechanical timer) was not working. I use it to turn on my 1500W heater for the tractor and activate a 1A motorcycle battery charger each day for a 3 hr span.

I figured the breaker was not working because one side was dead. I do not think the breaker was tripped at that time. I just purchased another 20A, 220 breaker, and the next day on my way to the farm stopped to say "hi" to guy I'd met at the fitness center and didn't know where he lived until then. I then discovered he did some kind of electricial work for the RR. He offered to come over and help.

He brought a meter and checked power at the pole. Both legs were fine there. Up the line at the silo box, one leg was dead.

I then returned the breaker and bought a 110V timer, and used it to power the heater and battery charger.

Now today no power in the barn panel at all. So I flipped the breaker at the pole by the meter.

I'm going to check with the nearby oil field workers to see if they have the equipment to check for the break.

 

[skeets]

I had a problem that was about the same, I found the breaker had become gunked up,,old cuttler hammer, and I had nothing at all flipping the lever nack and forth a dozen or so times cleaned the gunk up enough to work so I pulled it out and shot the snot out of it with break clean, snapped it a couple times and it workes,, problem with that is the grease to lube the works gets washed away,, so if its out doors i would start with the breakers

 

[85Hokie]

D2Cat,

I think you wiring below grade is fine - I think you'll find you problems in the contact points - buses, breakers, panels........

 

[Tunaslayer]

OK, Ill start by saying that electrical work is not a hobby, and most of the time it is safer to hire a pro. I, like you, am a cheap yankee, and try to tackle almost everything myself, so I understand. If I got this as a service call this is what I would do (master elec. & EE).
-Shut off the power at the MAIN DISCONNECT, tape or lock the breaker off to ensure it is not energized, and verify the power is off on the load (Barn/Silo side) using a verified multi-meter.
-Go to the furthest point on the load side, which sounds like the barn, and connect an alligator clip from L1(red or black) to neutral(white)
-go back to the Main Disconnect, and using your multi-meter, check for continuity (OHMS - looks like a horseshoe). The Lower the number the better the connection. OL or open loop = no connection.
-If there is a good connection, move the jumper to the other leg L2, if there is not, move down the line to the junction box on the silo, and perform the same test, checking the wire for continuity.

As a side note, I usually check all the connections and splices for heat before I do anything. Most electrical problems surface visually in the form of a pop, heat, or some smoke. If your main breaker is not tripping, and it has voltage on the load side, I would suspect a bad connection. If the wire were damaged underground , It is highly unlikely the breaker would not trip. IMO, shooting from the hip, it sounds like a lose neutral.

 

[D2Cat]

Appreciate the ideas and wisdom!

Sounds like the opinion is a loose connection per 85Hokie and Tunaslayer.

Tunaslayer, in following your test procedure, isn't this what was determined by the lack of power in on one side at the junction box at the silo by the meter the RR fellow did?

"He brought a meter and checked power at the pole. Both legs were fine there. Up the line at the silo box, one leg was dead."

Anyways, I'll start over and do as you mentioned. I'll stop by the electrical supply house and get some connectors for the wires in the junction box at the silo...I've got a feeling that's where the problem is.

I really only use elec. for the battery charger, engine heater, and well pump. But then I got to thinking I need the pump to work because I have an automatic waterer. If the cows drink water from there, the balls will float on the water and won't fill up, and could easily freeze. They have water at several locations so I could bucket some water into the waterer and cover it with a tarp so they can't get to it.

But then if I need air in a tractor tire....no air compressor.

Then I need power to activate my mouse chasing electronic pest controllor.

How about some lights once in a while?

Didn't realize how nice having electrical power is!

I was looking online and found this. Seems too simple.

"I had good luck finding breaks in a pivot wire that had been trenched through. I hooked one end of the wire to the disconnected spark plug wire on the pickup and started the pickup. Then I took a hand held am radio and turned it until I could hear the pop of the ignition. Then I could sweep the radio back and fourth and follow the wire, and when you loose the signal that is whee to look. Hope this helps. Make sure all the power is disconnected."

 

[lt190b]

Appreciate the ideas and wisdom!

Sounds like the opinion is a loose connection per 85Hokie and Tunaslayer.

Tunaslayer, in following your test procedure, isn't this what was determined by the lack of power in on one side at the junction box at the silo by the meter the RR fellow did?

"He brought a meter and checked power at the pole. Both legs were fine there. Up the line at the silo box, one leg was dead."

Anyways, I'll start over and do as you mentioned. I'll stop by the electrical supply house and get some connectors for the wires in the junction box at the silo...I've got a feeling that's where the problem is.

I really only use elec. for the battery charger, engine heater, and well pump. But then I got to thinking I need the pump to work because I have an automatic waterer. If the cows drink water from there, the balls will float on the water and won't fill up, and could easily freeze. They have water at several locations so I could bucket some water into the waterer and cover it with a tarp so they can't get to it.

But then if I need air in a tractor tire....no air compressor.

Then I need power to activate my mouse chasing electronic pest controllor.

How about some lights once in a while?

Didn't realize how nice having electrical power is!

I was looking online and found this. Seems too simple.

"I had good luck finding breaks in a pivot wire that had been trenched through. I hooked one end of the wire to the disconnected spark plug wire on the pickup and started the pickup. Then I took a hand held am radio and turned it until I could hear the pop of the ignition. Then I could sweep the radio back and fourth and follow the wire, and when you loose the signal that is whee to look. Hope this helps. Make sure all the power is disconnected."

D2Cat, if you do the spark plug wire test, please post your results.

 

[Tunaslayer]

so the lack of power can be caused by several problems, and the only way to find the issue is to ID which wire has the problem. Could an intermittent lose connection, which can only be found by doing a resistance check. I have been stuck in some real bad pickles before, and the only way out is to be methodical, and record or remember your findings. If you have a gut feeling where the problem might be, I would start there. If you think critters could have gotten to the wiring by the silo, I would look there first. They love to chew wires. If there is nothing evident, please try the resistance check, and I can help you from there. If there is no continuity on L1 or L2, your neutral is busted. Gotta start by giving yourself a target.

 

[Tooljunkie]

My automotive wire tracer might work, but at 20" it would be sketchy. Spark plug wire test is a viable plan.

Shop around for a used wire tracer. Transmitter on one end and a reciever to pick up signal. Signal quits at the break.

 

[Daren Todd]

My automotive wire tracer might work, but at 20" it would be sketchy. Spark plug wire test is a viable plan.

Shop around for a used wire tracer. Transmitter on one end and a reciever to pick up signal. Signal quits at the break.

Used to have a wire tracer for phone lines. The locator/ toner was only good for around doing 6" to 12". Toner got louder the closer it was to a wire. Would go through drywall, so I could run it along a wall to locate a buried wire. Never tried it on a wire underground though.

 

[Southernfarm]

I would disconnect the wires from the main and breakers at both ends and use a bumper wire between two of them and check for continuity with a multimeter. Do various combinations and see if any of the wires are severed. Then tackle breakers testing each as well.

Sent from my Z850 using Tapatalk

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Used to have a wire tracer for phone lines. The locator/ toner was only good for around doing 6" to 12". Toner got louder the closer it was to a wire. Would go through drywall, so I could run it along a wall to locate a buried wire. Never tried it on a wire underground though.

I used one on a corroded / broken main feed and was able to find it under 3 feet of dirt and rock.

 

[Daren Todd]

I used one on a corroded / broken main feed and was able to find it under 3 feet of dirt and rock.

That's good to know. Sold mine 12 years ago, along with my portable phone that worked off alligator clips. Ended up needing them about 6 months later and could have kicked myself in the butt. Sold my 6 ft bits around the same time. Could have used them as well

 

[D2Cat]

Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you!

My brain cells started percolating, and I though why not call the guy who has the oil lease on my place? He actually has no wells on my side of the road, but we help each other out and he may have some equipment to find electrical breaks.

He came down this morning and in 10 minutes had the problem pinpointed within inches.

He disconnected the lines at the meter can and hooked up a transmitter and a ground rod a few inches long stuck into the wet ground. The receiver was a bow shaped tubing with spikes on each end about 2' apart and arched up about 2'. He had a meter he set on top of the bow.

He walked a few steps put the receiver in the ground, picked up and walked another few steps. Proceeded with this process a few times, then backed up a few feet, then forward, then twisted it 90 deg. then moved a little more, then back. Then he tells me the break is right where his left toe is!

He told me Tri Plex direct bury wire is a good tough wire, but when it's nicked it eventually gets all three wires.

I put a rock there and start digging.

I got it visible, but had to leave. So we'll get it back together tomorrow. I looked like I'd been in a fight with a pig and lost!

 

[Tooljunkie]

Just had to talk to the right guy. Gotta be worth a gratuitous amount of his favorite beverage and a meal.

Glad you found it.
Any guess as to what caused failure?

Was going to mention you may have been able to find it with divining rods ,too late to try it now...yes they work on power cables too.

 

[D2Cat]

Frank, I think I caused the problem! I used my crawler to make that terrace and it caused an abrasion on the insulation, I'd imagine.

I made a terrace right on the edge of the silo to redirect water that was coming between the silo and the barn. I have to cross the terrace every time I go get a bale of hay and then when I put the tractor back in the lean-to. So, as I mutilate the terrace I eventually have to rebuild it. I'm quite sure the rebuilding got the wires injured somewhere and the problem grew!

The terrace was built after the wire was buried. Therefore it is shallower then original and now in that one spot is about 14" of bury.

Oh, I have a check in my pocket to thank him for the grief in the mud!

I think I will leave the hay ring around the area after it is repaired until I get some sand and fill most of it with that. But I will leave something above the wire for a locator. Maybe a cut piece of blue tarp!

 

[SDMauler]

I think you are going to continue to have problems with wire that small that's direct-buried anywhere near where you have equipment driving over it. If it freezes where you live, the frost heave can damage the wire. I would find some utiliduct (that continuous ABS tube that comes in big rolls, or anything similar) or PVC conduit to put it in. If you use PVC conduit, include a slip- joint in each vertical sections below the breaker or junction boxes to allow for ground movement. Put 6" of clean fill (3/4"-minus)below and above the conduit, then a piece of "buried cable below" tape, then the rest of the fill. It's possible the downward pressure from the equipment pulled on the wire and caused a weak spot. I've seen this kind of failure numerous times. Even a sharp rock getting pushed down on the wire can do it. Take pictures when the trench is open for later reference.

If you choose to just splice the wire, make sure you get the appropriate kit for the wire. Not sure if they still make them, but my favorite was a metal butt splice with two set screws on each end, and you strip the wire, and stick it in each end, and tighten the screws. Then a clear plastic "form" snaps over the splice, and seals against the wire insulation, with a small hole in the top of the form on each end. Then, a two-part epoxy is injected in one end of the splice, until it comes out the other end. After it hardens, break off the form, and throw the wire back in the ditch. It's the best sub-surface splice there is. Can't cause problems later, can't get waterlogged.