Leaky Hydraulic Hoses

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi Guys:

I've got a 2007 B7800 and noticed after this hard winter that there was a small oil stain below my FEL hoses. My tractor is in an open shed with a dirt floor so I can't really tell how much fluid leaked into the ground.
Several lines appear to be leaking a bit.

Is it time to replace all 12 hoses or just those that are leaking?
What's the process? Is it difficult or something for to DIY? Expensive?

Thanks in advance.
David
 

Kricks Lil Ox

New member

Equipment
B2710 w loader, RMF72 bushhog, 5ft blower, blade
May 5, 2014
5
0
0
Penna USA
Try to pinpoint the leaks first. You may have a cracked line or leaky gasket.

Hoses are usually cheap to replace, but you might find the task tough.
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks for the fast response, Kricks Lil Ox.

I'll do some closer inspection and try to pinpoint the leak, as you said.
Maybe it's nothing more than tightening the nuts.

A cracked line might be easy to see, but how could I check gaskets without removing the hose? And if I do, what about the pressure?
Do I need to drain or bleed the system?
Replacing a hose seems pretty straightforward but it's a pressurized line, which I've never dealt with before.
D
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Very few hydraulic systems use any gaskets, mostly just O-rings and taper fit fittings for a seal.

Get some good degreaser like purple cleaner and completely clean all the oil and dirt off of the Valve, hoses, fittings, connectors, and areas around it.

If it's leaking on a hose or fitting that you want to remove, lower the bucket to the ground and shut the tractor off and move the loader control in all directions a couple of times, this relieves all the pressure on the lines.
When you hook them back up you don't need to do anything special as the will bleed and purge any air out on their own.
 

Stubbyie

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Jul 1, 2010
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Midcontinent
Do NOT attempt to find the leak by running your hand over the line or eyeballing closely while running. Escaping high pressure fluid can and will penetrate the skin.

Follow Owner's Manual to use a piece of cardboard or drag a rag along the line in question, looking for a leak.

Once the engine is shut down and all the control sticks are wiggled to every position a few times all the pressure is relieved and work can start safely.

Most likely you have a hydraulic line seeping due to age. It won't heal itself and will finally burst at the least opportune moment. Better to identify and change under controlled conditions on your schedule, not in the middle of a job.

A good practice when shutting down the machine is to relieve pressure in all hydraulic hoses by grounding your implement and wiggling all the controls. This prevents hoses sitting there with pressure in them until you come back.

If you start changing hoses, use this opportunity to invest in quality hand tools. You will find a set of flare-nut crow-foot ratchet wrenches (Craftsman is the best deal--avoid Harbor Freight) will be the second handiest thing you own.

The handiest is a set of 15- and 30--degree angle-head hydraulic service wrenches---pricey if a name brand but worth every penny.

Yeah, you can use a crescent and standard open-end wrenches (even a pipe wrench), but you'll waste hours and risk rounded and perhaps ruined fittings; there will be some fittings you simply can't get too without additional unnecessary disassembly compared to using the 'correct' tools.

Please post back your experiences so we may all learn.
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi Wolfman & Stubbyie:

Thanks for the advice. Safety first! Glad to know relieving the pressure is simply a function of wigging the FEL joy stick & PTO lever.

I'll check out the wrenches you suggested and see what kind of money we're talking about. Should I be looking at standard or metric? Maybe I only need to buy the specific sizes for these hoses instead of an entire set.

In my short 62 years on this planet, I've learned that I'm not the most mechanical when it comes to machines (although I'm handy generally), which is to say that spending lots of money on tools that I'll seldom use might not be the best use of funds.

Still....I do love good tools and don't relish the idea of struggling with crescent wrenches or wrecking fittings.

I'll let you know the outcome.
 

Stubbyie

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Jul 1, 2010
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Dear DJG:

Hard to miss with good quality handtools. Buy well and you can pass them to the grandkids. At least that's the way I look at it.

First, regarding changing hoses: be prepared to hold backups on every fitting, even those clunky or block-type welded-to-cylinder fittings. Those fittings will bend and can snap off if not backed up. You'll find those hydraulic fittings tight tight tight. Watch too for the steel tubes across the front of a loader or on the stick of a backhoe. They'll bend like spaghetti if you get on one hard enough without backup.

And backup is where the odd crow-foot shines: they'll let you--in some combination--get two wrenches in a tight area where nothing else will fit.

The crow-foot flare-nut ratchet wrenches are designed to 'wrap around' the fitting and--if quality stuff--won't bend and let go. They'll fit any hydraulic hose that has a reduced diameter tube immediately behind the nut. I looked and looked and found Craftsman the best deal for the money.

The hydraulic service wrenches are harder to find in non-commercial brands. And they are damned expensive for what they are, but I can tell you from re-hosing two backhoes, having a set---or the sizes you need--will save you a huge amount of effort, knuckles, and cussin'.

I haunt tag, garage, estate and any other bargain sales I can find. Sort of a hobby. In 30-yrs I remember seeing only one set of hydraulic service wrenches show up. You should probably count on buying new. Perhaps a pawn shop in an industrial area or maybe eBay or ReTool or Craigslist might turn up a set. I kid you not, not an everyday tool, but when you need one you need one bad.

Back to the crow-foots: I tried a set from Harbor Freight and the chrome plating flaked off and gashed my hand. Back they went.

Please post back. I'm curious if your experiences validate my observations.
 

auctioneer dave

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Equipment
L3600, LA680, backhoe attachment
Feb 18, 2014
33
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boaz ky
I have changed a lot of hydraulic hoses before, when you take one off take it to someone in your town that makes hydraulic hoses. I have found when you find a locally owned hose fitting supply they are less expensive than other big outfits with the same hoses and fittings. When you take the hose with you they can get the length and size of the hose as well as the fittings will be the same ones you have on the old hose.
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks, Stubbyie:
That's clear and detailed info which I intend to follow.
I got the crow feet wrenches yesterday and will report back after I've done the job, probably this weekend.
David
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks for the advice, Auctioneer Dave. I'll do some checking for locally manufactured hydraulic hoses. I would assume they'll cost less than any Kubota part from the dealer.
I'll be sure to let you know the outcome.
David
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi Guys:

Well, I finally got around to removing the leaking hoses. Matter of fact, I took off all eight and went to the dealer. He looked at them are replaced three.

But....Oops! I forgot to label where each one goes back on. There are four per side. I'm looking at the Operator's Manual for LA402, but it doesn't show which goes where.

Any ideas?

Dopey Dave
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi Stubbyie:
Well, I got the hoses off and had three new ones made. Then oops...realized I hadn't made notes of which hoses connect from the two hydraulic cylinders to the intersection where the metal tubing goes across the FEL support.
So I tried attaching them and they're not hooked up correctly. The bucket and arms will only move in one direction.
See attached photos.

Kubota hoses at Joystick.jpg

Kubota hoses at Bucket.jpg

How do I identify which hoses (white, blue, yellow & red caps) fit where onto the FEL intersection? I can't ID which two are for the bucket & which two are for the FEL arms.
Any suggestions?

David
PS - I'm almost ready to have the local dealer send out his guy, but I'd rather not.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
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Start from the farthest point down the lines and work your way back.
They should be one set that is longer than the rest, that should go to the lift cylinder.
 

Stubbyie

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Jul 1, 2010
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Poke around the Internet (try KubotoBooks.Com if early in the month, due to their data flow limit(s)) and see if you can find the Parts Manual.

Come to think of it, go to the Kubota website; they now have Parts schematics. Try also Messick's to obtain downloadable schematics.

The idea is to make correct the hoses you have incorrectly connected. With the schematic it's simple to see how the hoses route from control to loader connection point. You've already got the correct hoses (patterned after the OEMs), now just get the ends in the right places.

It's all doable, just call it a learning experience. At this point all you need is a little bit more information.

Make certain you have the engine off and all pressure relieved before breaking connections.

The way I was taught to make hydraulic connections is to dry both male and female fittings, then place ONE drop of oil on the male end, and make 'er up tight. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it's always worked for me. But so does sprinkling chicken blood over things I don't understand.

When making up the hoses, make certain you maintain a 'straight' smooth bend and don't get a dogleg or kink or twist in the hose by letting the swivel move around and incorrectly orient the hose. You may have to reorient the hose(s) after running the machine and testing through use. Take a good close critical look at the hoses after installation: if it doesn't 'look' right, it's not.

Don't default yet to the dealer. Hoses are one of the easier things we as owners have to occasionally work with.

Please post back your continuing experiences so we may all learn.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
31,013
6,993
113
Sandpoint, ID
Here's a better answer for you:
The top/front 2 steel lines are for roll.
The bottom/back 2 steel lines are for lift.
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Dear Stubbyie & Wolfman:

Thanks to both of you and I will take your advice and get back to you.

Stubbyie, I'm fresh out of chicken blood right now but usually add some from my scraped knuckles. That oughta do.

Bye for now and thanks again.

David
 

gbparn

New member
Jun 1, 2014
6
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0
TS,TN
DJG, I have an LA402 on a B7800, I can post a picture of my FEL and controls in the morning. If that might help?

Stubbyie, I recently replaced a couple hoses and when I tightened the hose down they did twist and curl, not kink so much. How do I straighten them out so they have a little less stress on them but are still tight? Does the crows foot flare nut ratchet assist with that somehow. I guess I need to look those up.
 

Stubbyie

New member
Jul 1, 2010
879
7
0
Midcontinent
Sometimes maintaining control over how your hydraulic hoses 'land' during installation can be a PiA.

Hydraulic hoses need to be curved smoothly without twists, curls, and kinks. Sometimes the inadvertent twist will turn into a kink when pressurized or moved as with a loader. Backhoes can be susceptible but loaders are where I see most problems.

Ideally, one end of your new hose has a swivel. Make up the hard-end first then stretch to the other connection. What I've found is that by holding a firm back-up on the machine side I can then turn the hose swivel to tighten in the orientation I want it to.

Once the swivel starts to contact the mating surface you'll probably see the hose itself start to turn. What I've had to do more than once is manually twist the hose 'backwards' or 'counterclockwise' just before I feel the swivel starting to make contact. Then, as the swivel tightens down it will tend to draw the hose into the 'correct' or smooth orientation you desire. I've had to do this as many as three or four times per hose to finally get the dang hose positioned as I like.

Be cautious manipulating hoses---you can manually kink one. Not to worry, just don't get too rough with a hose. You shouldn't have to. Just twist it, don't bend it.

Old fittings on the machine end that are rusty or pitted a bit just off the cone of the contact point are the most problem as they tend to 'grab' the swivel connection and twist the hose during makeup.

I have cleaned the oldest connections by twisting a greasy pipecleaner down into the fitting then buffing with fine sandpaper. Pulling out the greasy fuzzy pipecleaner tends to pull the fine metal dust away from the mouth of the fitting.

The same process should work if you're turning a swivel on the machine-end. Don't have one of those so haven't myself done that. You just have to keep trying repeatedly tightening-loosening until you finally get the hose to 'land' like you wish.

For what it's worth, assuming the space available and fitment allows such, I've begun having all my replacement hoses made using swivels on both ends. Seems to make life easier for just a few bucks more, especially on longer hoses. If doing this confirm first that the hose ends with [new] swivels can pass through any openings or slots, as in backhoe boom.

As for flarenut-crowfoot wrenches, I think they're the handiest thing in the world for doing hydaulic hoses. They'll fit over the metal neck of the hose (as in a 90-deg) and let you get down on the bottom to hold backup--or the top nut to make it up. They 'wrap around' the nut on five of the six flats and won't let go and won't 'smear' or round-off the nut flat. You can get more force on the flarenut-crowfoot than you should probably apply to most hydraulic fittings. Sure is handy when trying to break loose a 30-year old fitting. Or in a cluster of fittings like where on a loader four or a half-dozen are all grouped tightly together.

The flarenut-crowfoot won't fit over the hose itself (at least that I've found) so on some hoses, depending how everything fits together, I've had a short
(1-inch) straight metal tube-type connection added as an 'extension' behind the nut. This too makes life easier as the wrench will slip right over the tube.

One thing in the discussion of flarenut-crowfoot wrenches: you're looking for the real thing that is thick bodied (compared to, for example, a standard open-end wrench) and has a slot cut out where one of the flats would be. The other type open-end wrench that fits a ratchet (that looks just like a short standard open-end with a square ratchet hole in it) may have a place but not in hydraulic hoses. I've tried these lesser wrenches and succeeded only in smearing, distorting, and somewhat ruining the fitting (like when a loose crescent slips). They just can't get a good hold like a true flarenut-crowfoot can.

Please post back your experiences so we may all learn.
 

DJG

Member

Equipment
2007 B7800 LA402 FEL
Aug 1, 2010
118
0
16
Ann Arbor, MI
Hello Guys:

You are all priceless fonts of information and I thank you for your time, knowledge and willingness to share.

After getting really frustrated trying to find drawings that made sense to me and talking with the dealer, who couldn't give me what I needed, I realized I've got a neighbor around the corner who has a similar Kubota.

So I went to check out his FEL, did a diagram, followed it for mine and voila! It works properly. Actually, it's very logical how it's hooked up once you get it right.

And gbparn, it's great to meet (online) someone who has the same Kubota as I do. I won't be needing your photo but I appreciate the offer and I'll put you into my inportant Kubota contacts list for future reference. If you ever have any questions, feel free to contact me through this site.
Aint' computing wonderful?

Thanks again.
David