L4701 I am an idiot how screwed am I ?
- Thread starter Jday
- Start date
I'm not going to say you can't trash a engine in 100 hours but it would be pretty uncommon. I'd be leaning towards something that the warranty should cover in this case. Unless the original owner did something really stupid like putting gasoline in the tank by mistake you're probably going to come out of this ok.
Lots of guessing going on here…but the biggest problem I read is the “Oil is all sparkly”.
If there’s metal in the oil… it IS ”kabotas” problem….no matter how it’s spelled.
Whether they’ll pony-up and fix it on their nickel may be jdays’ problem…. hope not. And hope you’ll stay with this topic and let us know how this turns out!
If there’s metal in the oil… it IS ”kabotas” problem….no matter how it’s spelled.
Whether they’ll pony-up and fix it on their nickel may be jdays’ problem…. hope not. And hope you’ll stay with this topic and let us know how this turns out!
Sparkles in the oil indicates potential bearing failure. If they tear down the engine and find damage to one bearing then it is likely to be a bad bearing or installation issue from the factory.
The only other way I can think of that happening on a new engine is if it has been run with no oil in it. I have heard of people draining the oil from an engine and then getting distracted before refilling it, then running it without oil, or possibly forget to tighten the drain plug and have the oil run out while running. It doesn't take long to destroy bearings. If something like that happened then there is likely to be damage to most or all of the bearings.
The only other way I can think of that happening on a new engine is if it has been run with no oil in it. I have heard of people draining the oil from an engine and then getting distracted before refilling it, then running it without oil, or possibly forget to tighten the drain plug and have the oil run out while running. It doesn't take long to destroy bearings. If something like that happened then there is likely to be damage to most or all of the bearings.
Can't help but wonder what someone could do to cause such an issue in 100 hours. Run out of oil after the oil pan plug fell out for whatever reason?
My B2910 with nearly 2000 hours on it does not use much oil between changes. Almost none.
What else could have caused the issue? As mentioned, tipped on its side and then righted and started with a hydrolock might end up with a bend connecting rod...
But I did tip my B2910 on its side once, and it shows no damage as the result, since the tires and ROPS held the rest of the tractor off the ground. So damage to fenders and such might not have happened if this tractor was tipped on its side.
IF there was a failure that was not the responsibility of the original owner, then it must be on Kubota.
The original owner may be totally up front, or he could be the ultimate con artist.
Hard to imagine how a perfectly operating tractor when sold would suddenly have serious problems so quickly, within in a few hundred yards of moving it, before even using it to do real work.
Waay back in the early ‘70s I worked on an aircraft engine-overhaul assembly-line. After the engines were finished they went onto a test-stand and “run in” for anywhere from 30 mins to 4 hours depending on what sort of adjustments were necessary and the requirements of the end-user. (NASA required a 4 hour run-in. Our company only required a 30 min power-check and leak-check.)
We had one engine that ran only 5 mins at 1000 RPM and began clattering. The oil pressure indicated fine, but when it was examined a spoonful of plastic “gravel” was found inside the oil pressure relief plunger and in the oil pump pick-up screen. The master-rod main bearing was toast.
It was discovered that some of the brand new bottles of engine oil had this same pink ”gravel” in them.…which ended up being poured into the engine causing the loss of lubrication. Apparently, at the place of bottling the oil at the refinery…the plastic pump-gears that moved the oil into the bottles had begun to disintegrate. It caused a “recall” of certain lots of that Shell oil.
Thirty years later the same problem re-appeared from the same producer in Pasadena Tx. As luck would have it…I was piloting an airplane into Dallas Love Field and had to shut down the left engine for low oil pressure….for exactly the same reason.
I use paint-strainer paper funnels when I service my personal airplane with oil. I actually caught a small piece of aluminum foil on one occasion.
In the “good ol’ days” of all-metal oil cans we used to service the Rolls Royce Viper engines of the company airplane with Mobil II jet oil. It required the old-fashioned metal-piercing can opener to open the cans. The suction screen of the oil pump of those engines were often found to have trapped small slivers of metal along with chips of paint…probably from the opening of those cans.
We had one engine that ran only 5 mins at 1000 RPM and began clattering. The oil pressure indicated fine, but when it was examined a spoonful of plastic “gravel” was found inside the oil pressure relief plunger and in the oil pump pick-up screen. The master-rod main bearing was toast.
It was discovered that some of the brand new bottles of engine oil had this same pink ”gravel” in them.…which ended up being poured into the engine causing the loss of lubrication. Apparently, at the place of bottling the oil at the refinery…the plastic pump-gears that moved the oil into the bottles had begun to disintegrate. It caused a “recall” of certain lots of that Shell oil.
Thirty years later the same problem re-appeared from the same producer in Pasadena Tx. As luck would have it…I was piloting an airplane into Dallas Love Field and had to shut down the left engine for low oil pressure….for exactly the same reason.
I use paint-strainer paper funnels when I service my personal airplane with oil. I actually caught a small piece of aluminum foil on one occasion.
In the “good ol’ days” of all-metal oil cans we used to service the Rolls Royce Viper engines of the company airplane with Mobil II jet oil. It required the old-fashioned metal-piercing can opener to open the cans. The suction screen of the oil pump of those engines were often found to have trapped small slivers of metal along with chips of paint…probably from the opening of those cans.
Believe me I feel the same way Herno. Looking back when I test drove it, it was only in a 1-acre lot so I kinda did circles, moved the bucket and 3 point hitch, etc.....everything seemed to work fine. Lucky my wife was there and saw it all working etc.. LOL. I didn't rev it up much because there was really not a need. I mean I didn't have much room to go fast and really thinking such low hours I wasn't too concerned. I was more concerned about it being stolen only because I learned that tractors have no titles which is crazy to me. I even called the dealership on the morning I was buying it and checked serial number to make sure it wasn't reported stolen. I didn't want to spend all that money and later find out it was stolen. Looking back not running it hard, that was my mistake. I should have ran it hard!! Guy loaded and unloaded from the trailer with no issues. The engine sounded fine etc... but to be honest I am not a tractor expert so sounding fine to me may not mean much. Same thing when he dropped it off 3 days later. He unloaded it, he showed me how to chain it on trailer etc... then left. I got on it started taking it around and noticed that when I tried to go a little faster on hydrostatic petal it wanted to die so I thought i needed to give it more gas so upped RPMs some, seemed to help some and then about 3 min later started sounding funny. Can't explain just like not a smooth engine. I was going up a small hill like 3 foot high on the leavy of the pond and it wanted to die. I throttled up and noticed after going over 1500 rpm it wanted to die also. It ended up dieing out and then wouldn't start for a few minutes. It sounded like it was having a hard time turning over. I started freaking out at that point. Was praying it would start because if it didn't I didn't know how I was going to get it on the trailer. It finally started and I got it back to the trailer wondering what the heck is going on. I just seemed to want to die. Start it up to put on trailer and it starts smoking terribly. Like bad bad white smoke, not a little a lot!. So much it was hard to see. So now I am really freaking out. Turn it off. I start it up again hoping I can get it on the trailer without a problem and it smokes the whole time. I get it up and send it to the dealer with a guy that could drive the trailer with his truck. He said smoked some when they took it off the trailer at the dealership.
It is possible that the oil was filled after the damage was done. It may have run ok for the next 30 hours. Anyway, since you say that the original owner seems legitimate then the problem is more likely caused at the factory.
I know diagnosing a situation from light years a way is dangerous.
My gut tells me the original owner knew he had an issue and unloaded the tractor to an unsuspecting buyer.
He likely called the dealer asking about the issue to cover up what he already knew. Perhaps this is a sign that he knew there were issues with the tractor that he was trying to hide, and called the dealer as an indication he was not aware of them.
I was not surprised at all that the original owner claims to have done the 50 hour service himself. Whether he did it or not. Who knows? Even if he had receipts for the parts and lubricants, no way to know if he used them on that tractor.
Unfortunate situation. In the end this might have had a better resolution if the original owner pursued it with Kubota himself. Except that he probably knew he did not have a case. Speculation of course.
What's the chances that a normally operating tractor, with only a hundred hours or so on it, after sold would fail in the first few minutes of operation after being delivered?
Not a betting man, but my bet would be those chances are about zero.
Afterthought: Is there any chance you could take him to court and force him to take the tractor back and give you the money back? Might be worth a try.
I know the optimist in me says it was bad luck but the practical person says there is no way 10 minutes after becoming the owner, it goes to crap. Buyer beware is true. Even if wanted to pursue legal action, I am pretty sure I would have to prove they knew something was wrong with it when they sold it to me. I have no proof of that. If they had filed a claim with Kubota I might have a case but the dealership says they have nothing on record as far as any warranty claims, etc... The warranty went out in August but I am still under the powertrain warranty for another 4 years. That is my only hope at this point. If the guy was a conman then I am not sure what else to do. Lesson learned. I will say he called me back and he called the dealership. If he was truly a conman I don't think he does that. He would have just blocked my calls and ghosted me. At least that is what I would think he would do. And test I do know how to spell Kubota correctly. Thanks Whitetiger! LOL
Sparkly oil isn't uncommon from a new engine BEFORE the first oil change, nor even the second. A lot of parts are 'wearing in' and fitting themselves together.
Whatever the case, here's hoping Kubota covers it under warranty, and puts a short leash on that dealer. They don't like negative press and seem to do the right thing most of the time, or that seems to be the general consensus. Short of gross negligence by the previous owner, it isn't Kubota that you need to worry about. Make sure that the dealer documents EVERY nut and bolt they touch so that when they come at you about something that 'needed doing' outside any warranty coverage, you can make sure that Kubota knows what that dealer is doing. The difference in the outcome of what happens will probably be another loyal Kubota owner (and customer for the dealer) versus a lotta negative exposure for Kubota and that dealer. I hope they all come to the table with the right solutions.
Whatever the case, here's hoping Kubota covers it under warranty, and puts a short leash on that dealer. They don't like negative press and seem to do the right thing most of the time, or that seems to be the general consensus. Short of gross negligence by the previous owner, it isn't Kubota that you need to worry about. Make sure that the dealer documents EVERY nut and bolt they touch so that when they come at you about something that 'needed doing' outside any warranty coverage, you can make sure that Kubota knows what that dealer is doing. The difference in the outcome of what happens will probably be another loyal Kubota owner (and customer for the dealer) versus a lotta negative exposure for Kubota and that dealer. I hope they all come to the table with the right solutions.