l3560hst loader counter weight

[crawfords82]

Hi All,
We just purchased the unit, and have been going in circles trying to get information on what weight is needed to counter balance for loaded bucket.
kubots says to follow manual, it states the tires need to be filled, and rear attachment, or a heavy rear attachment...? what is heavy? backhoe only..?

dealership has to reference to this, and dont know what consists of "heavy attachment" equals in weight.

i dont want the unit to be any heavier than needed, to help prevent sinking in wetland,, (we have several ac to try to work on following river,, mucky most all year)
I have an old international 574 with loader, and loaded rear tires,, not 4x4, it sinks most of the time.. but its 2 or more times the weight and not 4x4 of the kubota.. im hoping it will provide more usable in mud.

currently i have a cement weight for rear, thats approx. 650 lbs,, I do not know if this is close to heavy attachment, and wondering how many with 3560 loader, have had to fill rear tires, for stability.

 

[GrizBota]

650 lbs is plenty. A few hundred pound back blade would probably be fine.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

1000 to 1500 lbs is golden.

Better get a set of chains, R4's are the pits in mud!

 

[crawfords82]

there's a big difference in 650 and 1500 lbs
wanted to purchase with the r-14 tires, but kubota has no option for these on the l series,, -- yet?--
grizbota are your rear tires loaded? I dont have large rocks, or tree trunks to test lifting at home.
will be utilizing it at the farm for many tasks, but would be nice to hear from others what works for getting the max load in bucket, and not lift rear or make unstable. before hauling to middle of no-where,, lol

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Good day.

I am not trying to be a wise ass or anything (I understood you asked about ballast), but when you say ‘wetland’ what meaning? Damp area (spring), swamp (typically underwater),…does it hold frogs, fish or wood ducks or all three? Reason I ask is I cross streams with my B and MX, however playing where there is a spring or a swamp is a no go for me….i think if a swamp as a wetland, which is marshy vs a stream or river which when low has a river bed that can support a vehicle, if that makes sense. IMO a tractor doesn’t float, but I have not proved that to be sure.

If I were worried about sinking and needing ballast I’d be thinking about a logging winch.

I don’t know is what is the correct answer, but I think you at least want to be able to offset the weight of a wet bucket full…I am not familiar with your machine so I don’t really know. For either of my machines I think roughly 20% more than the number on loader in pounds is a good start point(I have a hilly properties) maybe more. As an example MX has a 1065 loader (I think the number is KGs)…anyway 1200 is a good place to start off the back up to the BH which is 1800ish pounds…it feels like a tank with the BH on. Likewise with my B with a 534 loader, I think 650ish pounds in the ballast box feels pretty solid…850lb chipper even better if the ground is flat.

I am not sure any of this helps, but I’d not consider ballast less than 20% more of the number on the loader in pounds…in the L3560 there are two loaders possible, correct? I’d use the larger one for cipherin ’. I’d think NIW is on the mark with his advice. Whatever you choose if navigating a wetland amount needed for ballast may not align with maintaining floatation(not sinking). YMMV.

 

[GrizBota]

there's a big difference in 650 and 1500 lbs
wanted to purchase with the r-14 tires, but kubota has no option for these on the l series,, -- yet?--
grizbota are your rear tires loaded? I dont have large rocks, or tree trunks to test lifting at home.
will be utilizing it at the farm for many tasks, but would be nice to hear from others what works for getting the max load in bucket, and not lift rear or make unstable. before hauling to middle of no-where,, lol

Yes, unfortunately with CaCl. I need to get that changed out.

As far as offsetting the leverage of the loaded FEL bucket with ballast behind the rear axle, math will get you there. I’m not sure what you could pick up that would need 1500 lbs of ballast.

The bucket capacity is about 11 cubic feet heaped. It’s about 60 inches (5.0 ft) in front of the front axle. If the bucket managed to be filled with wet concrete at 150 pounds per cubic foot (about all the FEL is rated for), the FEL would put a moment of about 8300 ft-lbs into the front axle. That could be counter acted (ignoring self weigh of tractor and loaded tires) with a load of about 920 pounds at the three point arm eye, presuming the eye is about 9 feet behind the front axle. Include loaded tires at 450 pounds each located about 6 feet behind the front axle and now it requires about 320 pounds on the three point are eye to offset the additional load from the FEL bucket with a very heavy load. The tractor itself wasn’t balanced on the front tires to start with, so the weight of the tractor on the rear tires is the additional factor of safety. This doesn’t include the effects of inertia or side to side stability. Low and slow, that’s the FEL montra. But I suppose you could put 1500 pounds on the three point.

Here’s what Kubota has to say about rear ballast in the manual the gave me for my FEL. See the “Caution” on the upper left of the second image and “Note” on the right side of the second image. I suspect your manual may be similar.

 

[crawfords82]

Hi, yep manual is pretty much same, it first says to load tires, and rear attachment are needed, but then says heavy attachment might not require filled tires. add 450 per tire, and get 900 then add attachment to boot.. so im worried 650 on hitch will not be enough when bucket is loaded up.

the wet land is all the above,,, some areas you cant even walk, you sink,, but some spots are somewhat solid if river hasnt flooded for a while in summer..
looking to create paths- buzzing around for fun and help with hunters

the jd 855 does well but is a bit small for moving larger dead trees n such. the IH 574 has loaded tires, and is all you can do to not sink with bucket empty,, not 4x4, if sand in bucket front just plows down as soon as cross river
hope this size kubota with 4x4 will be just right... crossing fingers -- but just need to find something in back yard to test lifting it seems

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Hi, yep manual is pretty much same, it first says to load tires, and rear attachment are needed, but then says heavy attachment might not require filled tires. add 450 per tire, and get 900 then add attachment to boot.. so im worried 650 on hitch will not be enough when bucket is loaded up.

This is why I said 1000lbs to 1500lbs on the three point.

 

[GrizBota]

If the goal includes not sinking in the mud, then less is more. A 300 lb box blade would work. As will your 650 ballast box. As will an 1800 lb backhoe (which might help dig you out if you get stuck).

 

[PoTreeBoy]

If you want minimum weight, don't load the rear tires and carry more weight on the 3pt.

Tire loading helps keep the rear tires on the ground, but it doesn't take any weight off the front axle. Obviously, it adds to the total weight of the tractor.

Weight behind the rear axle lifts some of the weight off the front axle and transfers it to the rear axle (and tires).

IMO, tractors with loaders need counterweight behind the rear axle. If they start out with 50/50 F/R weight distribution, they're already front heavy, since the front tires don't have the load capacity of the rears. Then add the loader weight counterlevered out front and the front tires really carry a disproportionate share of the load.

The downside of not loading the rears is when you need traction to pull something, a plow for example. Then you need weight and the weight of the implement doesn't help much since it's resting on or in the ground. Some folks say it also adds stability on slopes.

Don't be this guy (from Facebook).

 

[notaz3]

I have the same tractor, tires are not loaded, 470 pound box blade, and LA805 loader. I've maxed the lift weight and have yet to have the rear tires come off the ground.

With the big equipment I'm used to, weighted tires and front weights are used to assure correct tire slip. That changes depending on surface conditions.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If you want minimum weight, don't load the rear tires and carry more weight on the 3pt.

Tire loading helps keep the rear tires on the ground, but it doesn't take any weight off the front axle. Obviously, it adds to the total weight of the tractor.

Weight behind the rear axle lifts some of the weight off the front axle and transfers it to the rear axle (and tires).

IMO, tractors with loaders need counterweight behind the rear axle. If they start out with 50/50 F/R weight distribution, they're already front heavy, since the front tires don't have the load capacity of the rears. Then add the loader weight counterlevered out front and the front tires really carry a disproportionate share of the load.

The downside of not loading the rears is when you need traction to pull something, a plow for example. Then you need weight and the weight of the implement doesn't help much since it's resting on or in the ground. Some folks say it also adds stability on slopes.

Don't be this guy (from Facebook).
View attachment 124550

Been there done that, years ago, mine did drive itself out.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

If you want minimum weight, don't load the rear tires and carry more weight on the 3pt.

Tire loading helps keep the rear tires on the ground, but it doesn't take any weight off the front axle. Obviously, it adds to the total weight of the tractor.

Weight behind the rear axle lifts some of the weight off the front axle and transfers it to the rear axle (and tires).

IMO, tractors with loaders need counterweight behind the rear axle. If they start out with 50/50 F/R weight distribution, they're already front heavy, since the front tires don't have the load capacity of the rears. Then add the loader weight counterlevered out front and the front tires really carry a disproportionate share of the load.

The downside of not loading the rears is when you need traction to pull something, a plow for example. Then you need weight and the weight of the implement doesn't help much since it's resting on or in the ground. Some folks say it also adds stability on slopes.

Don't be this guy (from Facebook).
View attachment 124550

Or this guy...we lovingly refer to him as the 'Happy Dumbass'......

 

[crawfords82]

LOL yes ive been there myself,, go get another tractor to pull out stuck tractor, and get first one out to just get second stuck,, the key is to stop before your doomed to big equipment, which might not be able to get there,,
I do like the suggestion of more weight on hitch, to remove weight from front,, doing the teeter-totter does put all the weight of unit plus loader, plus,, that will sink the little tires for sure..
thanks its a challenge to find the best solution for every tasks,, have to take weight off to brush-hog, but then cant load bucket,, but if load tires ? -

I know,, just buy 2 more and set each up for different tasks... LOL

 

[Grandad4]

You have a tradeoff to deal with: maximize the counterweight so you can lift heavier bucket loads vs. keeping the tractor light so it won"t bury itself in your soft areas. I'd be trying to keep the option of changing the setup based on situation, which favors weight on the back instead of loading the tires.

So 3 point implements for counterweight. But give yourself some options.
Someone mentioned 600 lbs, that's probably about the least that would do much good on your L3560; at the other extreme, a 1,500 - 2,000 lb backhoe will keep the back end pretty well planted but it makes the tractor kind of ponderous for ordinary chores.

Those were my experiences with a similar size tractor. Congratulations on your new L3560.

 

[crawfords82]

when delivered i used to unload brush hog, when backing up the rear tires just spun, had to engage 4x4 to move, and could tell it was about to do the teeter totter,
so i know it has to have weight on rear just to lift 300-400 lbs
I will just have to use with different attachments, and see how well it balances. snowblower and moving snow with bucket,, etc,,
thanks for ideas... im not sure if the units stuck had tires loaded, or not,, sounds like most people dont have tires loaded, and are good with stability, ill give it a try as is for a start,, lighter is better in mud...

 

[crawfords82]

You have a tradeoff to deal with: maximize the counterweight so you can lift heavier bucket loads vs. keeping the tractor light so it won"t bury itself in your soft areas. I'd be trying to keep the option of changing the setup based on situation, which favors weight on the back instead of loading the tires.

So 3 point implements for counterweight. But give yourself some options.
Someone mentioned 600 lbs, that's probably about the least that would do much good on your L3560; at the other extreme, a 1,500 - 2,000 lb backhoe will keep the back end pretty well planted but it makes the tractor kind of ponderous for ordinary chores.

Those were my experiences with a similar size tractor. Congratulations on your new L3560.

thanks,, thinking the same,,

 

[BobInSD]

I did something similar to GrizBota's approach, only my goal was to put more (70%) of the weight on the rear wheels. I carry IBC totes full of green firewood across sometimes bumpy ground and don't want to destroy my front axle.

This gave me numbers closer to what NorthIdahoWolfman came up with. I haven't actually made the counter weight yet, I was initially getting by with hanging my IH-80 snowblower off the back when I need to lift the totes with the front but also by buying a set of 3-pt forks, so I can put that 1700 pounds directly on the rear end of the tractor (and by putting a full tote on the back when I need to lift one w/ the front, to stack it on top of another one).

 

[crawfords82]

I have the same tractor, tires are not loaded, 470 pound box blade, and LA805 loader. I've maxed the lift weight and have yet to have the rear tires come off the ground.

With the big equipment I'm used to, weighted tires and front weights are used to assure correct tire slip. That changes depending on surface conditions.

thanks for reply,, I think i will try as is, and see how attachments work,, there are a few to try for different weights. its not stable lifting much at all with nothing on rear,,
can always fill tires later if its needing more weight..
tx