L355 starting system electrical problem

BeartoothBoy

New member

Equipment
1982 L355SS Tractor
Jun 22, 2016
6
0
0
Clark, WY, USA
I've searched diligently in the forums for this problem, and found no entries. So here goes. Symptoms: (1) Fusible link between battery and ignition switch (Kubota 67111-55190, 20 AWG, ~6 amp) heats rapidly (less than 3 sec) and blows during preheating or cranking. (2) Insufficient voltage (only 6.8v) available at starter motor solenoid activation terminal during cranking (battery shows 12.7v), so solenoid clicks but will not activate starter motor). (3) Glow plug indicator heats to bright yellow (not red) in under 3 sec regardless of ambient conditions -- if held any longer, it would melt. (4) Several crimp connectors in the glow plug indicator wiring and the starter motor wiring show signs of high heat (melted insulation, stiff wires, blackening, etc.). (5) Very hard to start, as if glow plugs aren't working.

So, referring to the wiring diagram in my Owner's Manual, I've made the following discoveries. (1) When the starter switch is rotated CCW (preheat position), both the glow plug indicator and the glow plugs themselves are activated. (2) When the starter switch is rotated CW (start position), the glow plugs are still activated but the glow plug indicator is not. So whether preheating or cranking, the glow plugs are activated -- they are inactive only when the starter switch is in the center position. (3) The glow plugs are wired in parallel (from one to the next to the next to the next by a single wire feed wire, and then are all grounded to the head by their base. At 7 ohms apiece, their total resistance together should be about 2.2 ohms.

My troubleshooting process has been to open the dashboard (a real pain on the L355S) and remove the starter switch, then one by one reconnect circuits to it, checking all wiring harnesses for open or shorted wires first. I've also pulled the starter motor, polished the motor commutator and brushes, pulled the solenoid and smoothed/polished the solenoid contacts, and cleaned and re-greased the gearbox (at the service bench the starter motor unit, including solenoid, performs to spec). Disconnecting the wire from the starter switch to the first glow plug, the remaining glow plugs together measure about 2 ohms with a digital VOM -- right on target. Together they should draw about 6 amps, which matches the fusible link capacity. The starter switch unit was pulled and put on the test bench to see if any of the connections were damaged or introduced resistance that would cause the voltage drop to 6.8v. It performed to spec. So I started reconnecting things, first the wire to the starter motor solenoid, leaving the glow plugs and glow plug indicator disconnected. The starter motor performed correctly, spinning the motor at a rapid speed against normal compression. The fusible link did not get hot to the touch after several seconds of cranking. Conclusion: The problem must be in the glow plug circuit side of things. I reconnected the glow plug wire to the first glow plug. When I connected only the glow plugs to the preheat connection (NOT final wiring, just for testing, leaving the glow plug indicator out of the circuit), and turned the starter switch to the preheat side, the fusible link got warm after several seconds, but not too hot to touch. An inductive ammeter showed an initial surge current of 6 amps when the switch was initially turned to preheat, as expected. So finally I put all of the glow plug circuit wires back where they belonged on the starter switch. And the problem reappeared. I pulled the glow plug indicator out of the dashboard panel and discovered that the hot-side terminal was rusty and blackened (signs of high heat) with the lead wire stiff and insulation melted. But the other terminal was nice and shiny, no signs of heat, and the lead wire was fine.

My conclusion is that the glow plug indicator is the culprit, although I haven't verified that by replacing it yet (had to order one, won't be here for a week). My thinking is that the (probably factory original) glow plug indicator's resistance changed with age and heating. The cruddy nature of that one terminal would have been highly resistive when cold, causing about half of the battery's 12v to be consumed in the indicator itself, which in turn made the indicator's coil heat to yellow-hot within a couple of seconds and somehow causing insufficient voltage to appear at the solenoid activation terminal at the starter motor. This would also cause most of the voltage to be applied to the indicator and very little to the glow plugs during preheating, essentially making the preheating position of the switch a "heat the indicator a lot but the glow plugs very little" position. Then when turning the switch to the starting position, the glow plugs are initially cold and to get them warm enough to do any good you'd have to crank for so long that the fusible link gets overheated.

So in the end, I'm out my one-and-only tractor for a week. I'll replace all wires with signs of heat stress at connection terminals, and I'll get a fistfull of new little rubber connection caps. And when it gets here, I'll install the new glow plug indicator, and update this post with my findings.

I'd sure be interested to know if anyone else out there has experienced this issue (primary symptoms hard starting, low starter solenoid voltage and a glow plug indicator that gets way too hot way too fast), or sees other ways that these symptoms could be caused. Since the glow plugs resistance "in bank" was right, I've put off replacing them, especially since replacing the front one requires dismantling the fuel injection system and intake manifold. We'll try replacing the glow plug indicator first and see what happens...
 
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Daren Todd

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Massey Ferguson 1825E, Kubota Z121S, Box blade, Rotary Cutter
May 18, 2014
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Vilonia, Arkansas
I haven't had that issue as you described. But then mine is older and doesn't have a fusible link. I did have all sorts of starting issues when I first got it. Previous owner had bypassed the starter switch and installed a push button starter switch.

I tested the original starter switch on the right side of dash and worked as expected. But as soon as the wires were hooked back up, the starter would stay engaged all the time. Traced the wiring out and found the wires melted where they contacted the engine block where they crossed over from the starter going to the glow plugs.

Fixed those wires, and it's been running great ever since :D
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Jun 9, 2013
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You must be a Retired Engineer! :p

That was a whole lot of writing! :eek:

In the future put a warning on the post thread!
Like: Caution Book Reading Ahead!
I think the server just lost half of it's available memory off of one post!
Please simple yes and no answers in the future, my brain hurts! ;) :eek:

Just messing with ya! :D

Simple fact you have one or more bad glow plugs or possibly a shorted wire to the GP's!

The indicator is fine, hence the turning yellow, bad connections are going to raise resistance and would make a week glow not a brighter one!
As shorted wire to the GP's or shorted GP's will cause the amperage through the indicator to skyrocket! ;)

Glow plug indicator heats to bright yellow (not red) in under 3 sec regardless of ambient conditions -- if held any longer, it would melt.
Quick and easy test, remove the feed wire to the glow plugs, use a wire from the battery positive to the GP's, if it get hot or melts in your hand The GP's are bad!
Save future abuse replace all of them at one time!
If it doesn't get hot then check wiring very carefully!

Also this shouldn't stop you from using the tractor, just find out which GP is shorted and remove it from the loop, the rest will heat and fire, and the bad GP cylinder will catch up once the others fire.

Another note, if your having to use GP's to get it to start this time of year, your probably in need of a valve adjustment or possibly a rebuild,
if you want a more info do a compression test while you have the GP's out.
 
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BeartoothBoy

New member

Equipment
1982 L355SS Tractor
Jun 22, 2016
6
0
0
Clark, WY, USA
Thanks, Wolfman. It's worse - retired physics teacher and programmer, with some background in EE. That's why this stuff drives me nuts. It otta' be easier! Just wanted to be thorough.

Hot wire from battery to each glow plug is an excellent test that had not occurred to me (since I got an acceptable resistance reading on the four of them together). I'll go do that and post results here ASAP.

As far as compression goes, motor has about 1,650 hours, so it's no spring chicken -- but it also shouldn't be overhaul time. Will do compression test if I replace glow plugs as you suggest.

I think part of the hard starting problem is that with the existing high current draw, the starter motor has not been spinning the crank fast enough for reliable starting. I've already addressed battery and "dynamo" issues, and have a new voltage regulator on the way. If I find a bad glow plug, that should take the excessive load off the circuit, let the starter motor spin the crank faster, and maybe not have to use the glow plugs at all in summer.

Thanks for good advice and experience. OowooOOOOOoooo! :)
 

007kubotaguy

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B7100DT L245DT JD 2355
Dec 23, 2012
639
252
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Herald Calif.
Hello
You will need to use the glow plugs on the first start up of the day anytime of the year with this tractor. one thing the will help the starter is the add a starter relay the the system. 1600 hours , This tractor is just broke in.
Good Luck Lance
 

BeartoothBoy

New member

Equipment
1982 L355SS Tractor
Jun 22, 2016
6
0
0
Clark, WY, USA
Reporting in with results. Disconnected wires to isolate individual glow plugs, and disconnected wire to starter switch from #4 glow plug. Tried measuring resistance to ground with digital VOM but got wildly fluctuating readings that settled around 2 ohms on all four glow plugs. Digital VOM's are not real good at measuring resistance that low, so inconclusive. As Wolfman suggested, I hooked a long jumper wire to positive battery terminal, and stripped about 1/4" of insulation from the far end, leaving a small "brush" exposed. Went down the line brushing each glow plug's connection post -- tiny sparks on #1... tiny sparks on #2... FIRE AND BRIMSTONE on #3... and tiny sparks on #4. Checked 'em all again just to make sure. Sure enough, #3 made sparks just as if I'd touched it to any bare chassis ground. Sometimes the brute force method is the only one that tells truth.:rolleyes:

I made a long 12AWG wire to bridge from #2 to #4, skipping #3 temporarily. (Just plain old house wire, didn't have any of the special woven high-temp sleeve nor as heavy a gauge on hand.) Have ordered a set of new glow plugs, and will put the original wires back on when we change the plugs out.

Hooked everything back up through the starter switch and existing wiring harness, and it's all working like it should now -- in fact, it almost fired up when cranking no more than 2 or 3 revolutions. When switch is held to the preheat position, the indicator takes a LONG time to start glowing, as it should.

A final thought about lengthy posts. Sorry if I offended anyone. A pet peeve of mine is posts that give incomplete, sketchy, or incorrect information. Having written technical manuals (can you tell?) I try not to leave anyone wondering. Besides, you should see my emails...:eek:

Thanks again for good advice, Wolfman! PROBLEM SOLVED.:D
 

D2Cat

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L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
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40 miles south of Kansas City
I've got an L2050 which was built from '89-'91. Your L355 was built from '82-'87. So the L2050 is a few years newer they the L355.

In the Operator's Manual for the L2050, under "Operating the engine", #8 reads,

"Fully depress the clutch pedal and turn the key switch left, until the glow plug lamp turns red. Though the preheat turns red in about 10 second, it takes at least 20 seconds until the preheating coil in the combustion chamber is fully heated. The lower the ambient temperature, the longer the preheating time. For the necessary preheating time, refer to the table below.

temperature --Over 32 deg. F preheat 20-30 seconds.

temperature--32 to 23 deg. F preheat 40-60 seconds.

Point is, these old girls need more heat to fire!!
 

BeartoothBoy

New member

Equipment
1982 L355SS Tractor
Jun 22, 2016
6
0
0
Clark, WY, USA
Thanks, D2CAT. I just fired it up after putting everything back where it belongs, and it fired up fine with no overheating of wires or glow plug indicator. Held the preheat switch over until I could feel heat coming off of the indicator from about 1" away -- figured in summertime (temp 89F) that was sufficient, and it took about 30 sec (on only 3 out of 4 glow plugs, with all 4 it should be marginally faster). In winter I'll use the block heater and wait for the red glow.

My owner's manual says exactly the same thing.

I think "old girls" are just fine for "old hobby mini-ranchers" like me! (I'm pretty hard to start in the morning too...) :D
 
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