L295DT wont start, white smoke, video

[joesmith123]

L295DT

Sputters, smokes, about to start

Explain what is happening here and I try to figure out easiest way to fix it

My theory: inside the rings, there is a gap, letting oil in the area of combustion. When cranked, tons of pressure is being lost because of gaps not allowing it start, and the white smoke is oil burning

Smell: definitely smells off, something burning

My understanding to fix this: take off everything off the top of the engine and then somehow put new piston rings

How would you tackle this problem? I am assuming while I am in there do other maintenance work (head gasket etc)

 

[Dave_eng]

How long are you pre heating the glow plus. In the video it does not seem very long?
Have you checked each glow plug with an ohm meter.
Is your glow indicator ( coil of wire in a case in the dash) glowing red before you turn key to start?
Is the key switch the factory one or has someone changed it. This is important and the glow plugs need to work when key is in start position but in this position the glow indicator is bypassed.

Before you start into the serious mechanical stuff there are some easier issues to check.

Lastly before deciding if there are mechanical issues you would need to do a compression check. Remove the glow plugs and buy the proper kit.

Dave

 

[Russell King]

There is also a decompression valve on the front of the engine that is used to start it that is generally a cable pul on the dash. Since you have the dash removed it is not connected (I assume). Make sure the lever on front of valve cover moves easily and is in the correct position and give it a good push to make sure it is closed.

Are the glow plugs even wired up? Where the dash is makes me wonder since the wiring to the glow plugs runs through or to the indicator on the dash.

Since you live on “earth” how warm is the air there?

 

[joesmith123]

How long are you pre heating the glow plus. In the video it does not seem very long?
Have you checked each glow plug with an ohm meter.
Is your glow indicator ( coil of wire in a case in the dash) glowing red before you turn key to start?
Is the key switch the factory one or has someone changed it. This is important and the glow plugs need to work when key is in start position but in this position the glow indicator is bypassed.
View attachment 101629
View attachment 101630


Before you start into the serious mechanical stuff there are some easier issues to check.

Lastly before deciding if there are mechanical issues you would need to do a compression check. Remove the glow plugs and buy the proper kit.

Dave

Glow plug details: I ran a wire connecting them all the way to the switch and there is power the entire way

If you put the volt meter on the top of the glow plugs, it turns red when i turn the glow plug switch

Also, if you test the wire at the glow plug switch, it is red when the switch is turned

I did change the key switch, and wired it exactly how the old one was

In the video, that was the result after cranking and cranking, and heating and heating for about 30 minutes

I did touch the top of glow plug and can confirm it is getting hot

"but in this position the glow plug indicator is bypassed": Since the dash is apart and the indictor is not being used, no power is going to the glow plugs?

Compression check: Yes, that sounds like the right thing to do, I'll look into how to do this

 

[joesmith123]

There is also a decompression valve on the front of the engine that is used to start it that is generally a cable pul on the dash. Since you have the dash removed it is not connected (I assume). Make sure the lever on front of valve cover moves easily and is in the correct position and give it a good push to make sure it is closed.

Are the glow plugs even wired up? Where the dash is makes me wonder since the wiring to the glow plugs runs through or to the indicator on the dash.

Since you live on “earth” how warm is the air there?

Decompression valve: Yes I know exactly the valve being referred, and this tractor for some reason does not have a cable connected

I did check it and make sure it is/was closed, it does move easily, I'm assuming the correct position when starting is to have it closed

The previous owner did say it "smokes real bad and needs rebuilt"

 

[joesmith123]

Are the glow plugs even wired up? Where the dash is makes me wonder since the wiring to the glow plugs runs through or to the indicator on the dash.

Since you live on “earth” how warm is the air there?

Glow plugs are wired up and there is power showing at the top of the glow plug when the switch is turned left

Air is 80 degrees

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would say it's a combination of leaking / poor popping injectors, low compression, and possibly a valve adjustment issue.

 

[joesmith123]

I would say it's a combination of leaking / poor popping injectors, low compression, and possibly a valve adjustment issue.

Yes I agree, Ive never worked on diesels and excited to fix this one

How I think a diesel works: there needs to be tremendous pressure for there to be ignition

Any leaks in the system can eventually make an engine not able to run

Few details: it is spitting out of the most front cylinder where the glow plug sits as the engine cranks,

visibly I have only noticed one leak at that front glow plug, it could be small enough to not matter but my theory is that all leaks in diesels need to be addressed, especially in the pressure heavy areas

plan so far: fix that leak, figure out how to do compression test

when the engine is cranking, machine feels very solid, i would guess it was sitting under shelter for its 40 plus year life

Hours: around 600

 

[rbargeron]

If it were mine I'd first re-torque the head bolts - manual shows how. Then before turning the start knob try giving it a small sniff of starting fluid, like a quarter of a second, directed into the horn on the air filter. It won't hurt it and may help it start. If so let it run a while and see if the white smoke lessens. If it clears up a little as it warms there's likely a head gasket leak - replace the head gasket per the manual. Hope this helps. Dick B.

Don't forget the small o-ring that goes in the front area of the gasket - see attachment and this link.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Harbor Freight has the compression tester.

 

[ve9aa]

I don't know your tractor specifically, so take this with a grain of salt.
GP's are generally wired in parallel, so to do an Ohmmeter check on them, you'll need to unhook
the (copper?) busbar, otherwise you're measuring them "all at once...." , which can tell you very little"

Could be you are seeing the feed "wire getting red", but maybe it's a small wire , pulling lots of current and really only 1 GP is firing.

A multimeter is your friend.

Have you checked other easy things like fuel flow to all your injectors? Mouse nest in air box? etc

I'd certainly be running through all that stuff before ripping it apart.

Isn't "oil burning" blue?

YMMV

 

[joesmith123]

If it were mine I'd first re-torque the head bolts - manual shows how. Then before turning the start knob try giving it a small sniff of starting fluid, like a quarter of a second, directed into the horn on the air filter. It won't hurt it and may help it start. If so let it run a while and see if the white smoke lessens. If it clears up a little as it warms there's likely a head gasket leak - replace the head gasket per the manual. Hope this helps. Dick B.

Don't forget the small o-ring that goes in the front area of the gasket - see attachment and this link.

View attachment 101662

Yesterday when starting machine, I did run starting fluid (a bit)

I was never able to get it to run better than what is shown in the video

Yes I will follow your direction if head gasket will need replaced

 

[joesmith123]

Harbor Freight has the compression tester.

Ok, I try to go there today, it comes with a fitting that screws into this block?

 

[joesmith123]

I don't know your tractor specifically, so take this with a grain of salt.
GP's are generally wired in parallel, so to do an Ohmmeter check on them, you'll need to unhook
the (copper?) busbar, otherwise you're measuring them "all at once...." , which can tell you very little"

Could be you are seeing the feed "wire getting red", but maybe it's a small wire , pulling lots of current and really only 1 GP is firing.

A multimeter is your friend.

Have you checked other easy things like fuel flow to all your injectors? Mouse nest in air box? etc

I'd certainly be running through all that stuff before ripping it apart.

Isn't "oil burning" blue?

YMMV

Yes I am understanding about the glow plugs

New plan: take them out individually and give them power and make sure they get hot

"Fuel flow to all your injectors": not yet, to do this, I am guessing that I need unscrew each line to the three injectors and make sure diesel is flowing?

Mouse nest in air box: there is no mouse nest when i put in new air filter already

Oil burning being blue: I'm not sure, maybe you're correct

So far the plan: compression test, take each glow plug and make sure it is getting hot visibly

 

[ve9aa]

Yes I am understanding about the glow plugs

New plan: take them out individually and give them power and make sure they get hot

"Fuel flow to all your injectors": not yet, to do this, I am guessing that I need unscrew each line to the three injectors and make sure diesel is flowing?

Mouse nest in air box: there is no mouse nest when i put in new air filter already

Oil burning being blue: I'm not sure, maybe you're correct

So far the plan: compression test, take each glow plug and make sure it is getting hot visibly

I can tell you're trying and asking most of the right questions.

There is very little need to remove all the GP's and apply voltage to them on the bench to see if they're working. I can think of 3 separate ways to know if they are all working w/o removing even one of them
but you need to know and understand how to use a multimeter. If you're weak in this area, then skip it and go to method #3. There's no shame in it.

Method#1-remove bus bar and using Ohms function read between the block and the tip of the GP's. IIRC should be around ~1.5 Ohms or so for each GP (if you knew the model of GP, you can likely google the exact specs. (reminder: zero meter prior to use, or at least short leads together to know how much to subtract from your final reading as the red and black leads will have SOME resistance and we're dealing with pretty small numbers here.

Method #2- REad DC current with a clamp on ammeter or DC shunt circuit.

Method #3. Run GP's 30 seconds, then take an infrared thermometer and see if any/all are warm.

My TG1860 (3cyl ~700cc diesel) pretty much will not start even on a summers day w/o cycling GP's at least once. It's always been this way since I got it with 500hrs on it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Ok, I try to go there today, it comes with a fitting that screws into this block?

Yes it should come with the right fitting for both the glow plugs or the injectors.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes I am understanding about the glow plugs

New plan: take them out individually and give them power and make sure they get hot

"Fuel flow to all your injectors": not yet, to do this, I am guessing that I need unscrew each line to the three injectors and make sure diesel is flowing?

Mouse nest in air box: there is no mouse nest when i put in new air filter already

Oil burning being blue: I'm not sure, maybe you're correct

So far the plan: compression test, take each glow plug and make sure it is getting hot visibly

Be very very Quick with testing the GP's as they will get super hot in a second or less, any more than that and you'll burn them out.
An Ohm meter test is the best test.

 

[Russell King]

I’m trying to answer se of your questions here:

Glow Plugs
I assume what is glowing red is some indicator on the meter not something else.

Glow plugs wiring sound like it will work but the voltage is too high when in the glow plug switch position. It will burn the glow plugs out. Wiring is a bit odd on the tractor wh done correctly. The wiring for the glow plugs is this: battery to the switch (glow plugs and starter switch) then from switch (in glow plug position) to one side of the glow plug indicator (doesn’t matter which side but call this side A). Then through the indicator that is also a resistor to drop the voltage. From the other side of indicator (side B) the wiring then goes to the glow plugs (top of each glow plug are all connected together by the large solid wires that have no insulation and look like a solid rod. From there the power goes through the glow plug and to ground at the bottom of the glow plug where it screws into the block.

When the switch is turned to the starter position the wiring to the glow plugs changes and goes “around” the glow plug indicator and connects to the side B so does not drop the voltage BUT since the starter is cranking the engine the battery voltage is dropped and the amount of time in the start position is usually short.

i would get three new glow plugs and their copper seals since you said that you have leakage at one. I would get a new glow plug indicator also. You can just run wiring temporarily per the above until you put it back together. The indicator will get hot so you should mount it to something like a board and keep it away from fuels. Get a deep socket that fits the glow plugs. All of these parts are inexpensive.

Decompression
The lever at front of the valve cover should be spring loaded and move to the correct position to run. From recent memory (if sitting in the seat) movement to the left will be decompression position and to the right creates compression. You may be able to rig up a string through a hole on the left side of the tractor to pull it open and just let it slack to close it. The cable and the keeper (that pulls the lever) are also relatively inexpensive and probably available. Your engine is spinning ok but sounds a little slow and will spin mu faster if the decompression knob is working. I assume you know how to use it but in short decompress the spin engine up to speed and the release knob to start. You may want to look into a new starter and see if you can get the gear reduction type that will spin it faster. (There is a thread on here that explains how getting the engine to spin faster got a rebuilt engine to start and run but I can’t locate it. The compression was low since the rings had not seated yet)

Fuel
It looks like you are getting fuel but you may want to get new injectors or have yours rebuilt. You can do some tests but I won’t try to explain them.

You need to stop using starter fluid.

You may want to get new fuel if you are not sure how old the fuel is in the tank.

You can verify the fuel flow at the injector pump inlet to verivy the flow is normal.

 

[joesmith123]

I can tell you're trying and asking most of the right questions.

There is very little need to remove all the GP's and apply voltage to them on the bench to see if they're working. I can think of 3 separate ways to know if they are all working w/o removing even one of them
but you need to know and understand how to use a multimeter. If you're weak in this area, then skip it and go to method #3. There's no shame in it.

Method#1-remove bus bar and using Ohms function read between the block and the tip of the GP's. IIRC should be around ~1.5 Ohms or so for each GP (if you knew the model of GP, you can likely google the exact specs. (reminder: zero meter prior to use, or at least short leads together to know how much to subtract from your final reading as the red and black leads will have SOME resistance and we're dealing with pretty small numbers here.

Method #2- REad DC current with a clamp on ammeter or DC shunt circuit.

Method #3. Run GP's 30 seconds, then take an infrared thermometer and see if any/all are warm.

My TG1860 (3cyl ~700cc diesel) pretty much will not start even on a summers day w/o cycling GP's at least once. It's always been this way since I got it with 500hrs on it.

I am capable of using ohm meter

Method 3: I do remember them feeling hot

regardless method 1 will be attempted

 

[joesmith123]

Yes it should come with the right fitting for both the glow plugs or the injectors.

Ok the 30 dollar test kit included m10-m18, hopefully the right fitting will be one of those