L275 Not cranking hard enough

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Since he has been bypassing the glow plug indicator (resistor) I would assume the glow plugs are now burnt out. I think that applying 12 volts to glow plug designed for 10 or 11 volts would shorten their lifespan.

Yes that is also hard on them.

 

[forrest carver]

Eventually got it started yesterday!

I'm not exactly sure what did it. I discovered that the bucket control was stuck on "lower", not sure if that has anything to do with it. Lots of fiddling around with the injectors, bleed screw, GPs, etc. When it did fire, it fired right up which leads me to believe the GPs were already plenty warm.

It appears that the belt is pretty loose. While cranking, it was not tight enough to turn the fan or the alternator. Once it had been running for a few seconds, though, it began to turn them both as normal. Is this a concern, and if so, how involved is replacing that belt?

Russel your comment about burning out the GPs has me worried. They are all new GPs as I replaced them when you had originally helped me wake the tractor up from hibernation a year or two ago. I'm really not up to the task of rewiring, at least not yet, but can/should I put a resistor inline on the wire that I use to heat the GPs?

 

[fried1765]

Eventually got it started yesterday!

I'm not exactly sure what did it. I discovered that the bucket control was stuck on "lower", not sure if that has anything to do with it. Lots of fiddling around with the injectors, bleed screw, GPs, etc. When it did fire, it fired right up which leads me to believe the GPs were already plenty warm.

It appears that the belt is pretty loose. While cranking, it was not tight enough to turn the fan or the alternator. Once it had been running for a few seconds, though, it began to turn them both as normal. Is this a concern, and if so, how involved is replacing that belt?

Russel your comment about burning out the GPs has me worried. They are all new GPs as I replaced them when you had originally helped me wake the tractor up from hibernation a year or two ago. I'm really not up to the task of rewiring, at least not yet, but can/should I put a resistor inline on the wire that I use to heat the GPs?

You really do need to tighten/adjust the alternator belt tension.
As a quick/temp fix, you could try using some "belt dressing" from your local NAPA store.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Order or get a new belt, when a belt slips it can get 'glazed' (slipery ) and will always slip-a-bit.
tightening now may help, but a 'stop-gap'.
Also get the proper 'glow-plug' controller or 'device'. 5-10 seconds at a time may not burn out a GP but 30-40-90 seconds might ??!!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Eventually got it started yesterday!

I'm not exactly sure what did it. I discovered that the bucket control was stuck on "lower", not sure if that has anything to do with it. Lots of fiddling around with the injectors, bleed screw, GPs, etc. When it did fire, it fired right up which leads me to believe the GPs were already plenty warm.

It appears that the belt is pretty loose. While cranking, it was not tight enough to turn the fan or the alternator. Once it had been running for a few seconds, though, it began to turn them both as normal. Is this a concern, and if so, how involved is replacing that belt?

Russel your comment about burning out the GPs has me worried. They are all new GPs as I replaced them when you had originally helped me wake the tractor up from hibernation a year or two ago. I'm really not up to the task of rewiring, at least not yet, but can/should I put a resistor inline on the wire that I use to heat the GPs?

The Loader control being engaged can most certainly thwart the engine starting, puts way too much resistance on the system thus not letting the motor spin properly.

The resistor is the glow plug indicator.
You need to get the wiring up to snuff for it to work properly.
It's a simple circuit, super easy to connect.
Do you have the WSM (aka service manual) with the wiring diagram?

 

[forrest carver]

I have belt dressing for the meantime, but how big of a job is belt replacement?

Regarding the wiring, it sounds like I need to at least get the glow plug indicator back into the picture. Russell sent me a wiring diagram back when we were getting it started, so I have that to look at anyway. It doesn't seem particularly simple to me!

 

[Russell King]

Ok I will attach another schematic specifically for the L275 but the wiring to the glow plugs (working from glow plugs) is:
glow plug to next glow plug to next glow plug then to the glow plug indicator. From the opposite side of the glow plug to a heavy duty switch then from switch to the battery positive.

 

[Russell King]

And replacing the belt is pretty easy.

The alternator has a bolt to loosen to let it move in a long slot. There is also some bolt at the bottom of the alternator that may need to be loosened to allow the alternator to move. Just loosen the bolts and push the alternator towards the engine and then get the belt off of the alternator pulley. Then get the belt off the bottom pulley. There is probably a shaft that sticks out of the lower pulley and you need to get the belt over that shaft also.

Now the belt should be just hanging on the fan pulley and you can pick it up and get it between the fan blade (only one at a time) and the fan shroud. Part of the belt should now be between the radiator and fan. Continue to move the belt over the fan blades until it is completely off and on the radiator side of the fan. Then feed it out between two fan blades and it is now off the tractor.

New belt is put on just in reverse order of above.

When you get it on make sure the belt is straight and not twisted or kinked and then put it onto the pulleys and then the alternator pulley. Pull the alternator out to tighten the belt and hold the alternator in place and tighten the bolt in the long slot first.

Then tighten all the bolts. Don’t get carried away with tightening the bolts just get them snug.

Check belt tension by seeing how far you can push it halfway between two pulleys. It should move about 1/2 inch

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If the front loader is powered off of a pump on the front of the tractor that complicates the belt replacement a little.
You'll have to remove the drive for that pump by loosening the pump, should be 2 bolts and you should be able to slide it forward to get the coupling off the crank.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

NIW is right.... wanna have real 'fun'' ?, change the belt on ,er, IN , a forklift ! Yes pump has to be moved back 3 inches but FIRST, I have to remove a 300# weight to gain access to the pump ..... Adjusting the belt was easy AFTER exhaust had cooled down from cherry red to 'finally touchable'......
no, I do NOT miss those 'good old days' !

 

[forrest carver]

Awesome, thanks as usual for the help all and especially you Russell. The belt doesn't seem too complicated after all, I will get into that when I get a day off with nice weather. In the meantime I assume I can tighten it by moving the alternator along the slot.

I believe I may run into an issue with the main switch, though, as to my knowledge that's not currently working and was replaced with an aftermarket one. Can that be bypassed while still incorporating the glow plug indicator?

 

[Russell King]

Awesome, thanks as usual for the help all and especially you Russell. The belt doesn't seem too complicated after all, I will get into that when I get a day off with nice weather. In the meantime I assume I can tighten it by moving the alternator along the slot.

I believe I may run into an issue with the main switch, though, as to my knowledge that's not currently working and was replaced with an aftermarket one. Can that be bypassed while still incorporating the glow plug indicator?

Ok you will have to refresh my memory on you tractor and how you are currently using the glow plugs and how you start the tractor.

But I was running this through my thoughts today. If you are basically using a piece of wire between the battery terminal and the glow plugs then you can simply mount the glow plug indicator on a board and attach a wire to both sides of the indicator. Then use that circuit just like the wire you are currently using. The board will just keep you from burning your hand trying to hold the indicator. I suggest using something like the woode paddle from a kids paddle ball.

If there is already a key switch involved then please take some pictures or provide some sketched schematics of the wiring.

 

[forrest carver]

Here are some pics of the rats' nest. Note that among many other issues, the plastic connection appears to be melted and corroded where the GPI connects to the main switch. It looks like I could cut the large black/white wire which leads to the melted/corroded plug and connect that to the wire which I touch to the battery to heat the GPs. And then connect the other end of the large black/white wire back to the glow plugs (it currently goes nowhere). Is this sound logic?

Having the wiring diagram inspires me to actually fix all the wiring one day and it isn't overly intimidating anymore. However there definitely seems to be quite a few problems, omissions, shortcuts, etc.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

1st problem is the 'aftermarket switch'. get make/model and CONFIRM it IS a direct replacement for the Kubota switch. You need to confirm power to the glowplugs ONLY happens in 'preheat' and 'start', NOT in 'run' position. Best to buy the Kubota switch ($80)

2nd, get the correct 'glow plug indicator'($50)

3rd, remove ALL the bad or suspect wiring, take pictures(lots), replace connectors/wires are needed. This isn't a 'terrible' or 'complicated' job, just go slow and confirm as you go.

I'd make a diagram of what IS there now to see what has been 'modified' and go back to ORIGINAL wiring. If possible use same coloured wires as factory.

 

[Russell King]

I purchased a new wiring harness for my L185 from the dealer. You may want to see if they are available for you tractor. They would be easy to remake but some what time consuming and the connectors would probably be difficult to get exact replacements. I doubt that the connector for the voltage regulator would be available so you might have to replace the connector on the regulator itself

My key switch just had screw terminal with no connector near the switch. Most of the wiring looks correct so you could just cut the connector off and connect the wires together to get thins working.
The melted connector is concerning though. That indicates that something down stream was drawing a lot of current and there is no fuse (or fuse is larger than it should have been. I recall that there is a lack of fuses on some of the wiring. You should investigate if any of that wiring is chewed or damaged going to ground somewhere between that connector and the end of the wire (load point)

@GreensvilleJay states something that is not really obvious in the wiring diagram about how the glow plugs are powered in two switch positions (glow and start). The picture of the indicator shows that is correctly wired on the indicator itself. The single wire at the bottom will get power in the glow position. The indicator will drop the voltage down since it is really a resistor. So the top side of the indicator connections shows two wires. One of those goes off to the glow plug connections. So in the glow position that would be less than 12 volts.

Now in the start position the second wire on top gets voltage. The glow position of the switch is now off so no power supply is going through the glow plug indicator. But the start position of the key also applies power to the starter. The starter will draw enough power to drop the voltage on the battery so the glow plugs still don’t get a full 12 volts in the start position (when cranking).

Now if you don’t push the clutch down the safety switch is not going to allow the starter to activate. But you will be apply full battery voltage to the glow plugs. So don’t do this for very long or you will burn out the glow plugs.

On my L185 the key switch is really just a power on/off and headlight power switch (off/on/low beam/high beam). There is a separate spring loaded, two position switch that applies power to the glow plugs in the left position and power to the starter in the right position. When released the switch is in the middle position and not applying power to anything. Does your tractor have this second knob operated switch?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: burned connector
One way they go like that is they are not really snug. You've got a 1/4" tab , male sliding into a 'female'. Over time ,vibration and old age loosens the 'grip' that is suppose to firmly mate the pair. when that happens you don't have a GREAT solid connection, so may get an itty bitty arc, next time you put power thru, 2 itty,bitty arcs,3,4 lots more...eventually you end up with what's in the picture.

good news is you have a wiring diagram and the original harness,so take lots of pictures and reapir what you have. all the connectors are available through electronic suppliers. Some here may know who.

 

[forrest carver]

On my L185 the key switch is really just a power on/off and headlight power switch (off/on/low beam/high beam). There is a separate spring loaded, two position switch that applies power to the glow plugs in the left position and power to the starter in the right position. When released the switch is in the middle position and not applying power to anything. Does your tractor have this second knob operated switch?

Back when the key/main switch actually worked (which was many years ago so my memory is a little foggy) I'd have to hold the key in the leftmost most position to heat up the glow plugs. After about 10-15 seconds, I would turn it to the rightmost position to start it, and then it would revert to the second-to-rightmost position. I think the second-to-leftmost position was "off" and leaving it in the second-to-rightmost position would wear out the battery and incite my father's wrath.

I was able to start it pretty easily this morning with the normal procedure and I'm thinking the problem I was having earlier was actually a bad connection between the wire and the glow plug bus, which should be easily remedied.

Considering I will probably need to replace a lot of stuff anyway, I think my next move will simply be incorporating the GPI into my GP wire.

If it's working properly, should I see that little coil heat up and turn orange/red when the GPs are amply heated?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes, friend's KX41 ? miniex has that GPI. It'll glow indicating power to the plugs. don't know about 'colour' as I was told, 'hold for 30 seconds' then start. His machine, his rules...heck it always started that way for me.

 

[Russell King]

If it's working properly, should I see that little coil heat up and turn orange/red when the GPs are amply heated?

You might be able to see it glow if it is pretty dim light and you look at it intensely.

When I first got my used tractor I didn’t ever see it glow. When I replaced it with a new one it would glow well for the first couple of times I used it. Then a black color appeared on it and now it does glow but not enough to really see it. I am sure if it was in a dark environment you would notice it but I never start my tractor in the dark.