L275 Not cranking hard enough

[forrest carver]

I have not been able to start my L275 recently. It is not cranking hard enough. At first it seemed like a bad battery, but neither jumper cables nor a jumper pack did not change it. I also eliminated bad lead/terminals by running the fully charged jumper pack directly to the starter, also no change.

For the past few months I have needed to use the jumper pack to get it started because it seemed like the battery wasn't fully charged (maybe alternator not charging it?) Although the battery is relatively new.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: 'jumper cables'.... did you put them onto the tractor's battery or on the starter's +ve lug and ground nearby ??

re: 'jumper pack' which one, how old, # of times used ? They are NOT the same as a real battery.
Putting any '2nd' battery in parallel with a 'bad' battery is the wrong thing to do.

for MONTHS this has been going on ? so BEFORE old man winter came along.....

You could very easily have a 'bad' battery. Pull it out ,have it load tested. compare test results with what you need as a battery, based in amps AT the cold temperature you have !
All batteries lose a LOT of their capacity ( amps x time ) in cold weather. Some easily lose 50% ! Depends on type of battery.
While you're at it , yank alternator out, have it tested as well.
Age plays an important part in everything electrical, as does cleanliness. Simple layer of 'dusty mud' can kill alternator output by 70%.

 

[85Hokie]

IF/when you do get it started - then we can determine if alternator is not charging.

Spinning slow - and do you have any smoke at all?

40 year old machine - maybe, just maybe the starter need replacing?

Do as Jay said = test components

 

[forrest carver]

The jumper pack is a JNC660. It has always been reliable, but is a few years old at least and gets pretty frequent use.

I tried running jumper cables from my truck directly to the starter. When I tried to to start it, it actually killed the truck. This might have been because I had to jump my truck right beforehand!

Then I tried running jumper cables from my minivan (which was fully charged). This was the quickest crank yet, but was not fast enough to start and I did not see any smoke.

I should mention it's been bitterly cold up here for days. Tens/teens F.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

jumping WITH the tractor battery connected as well ?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Bad or corroded connections on either end of either battery cable can cause slow cranking.
Old Battery cables can rise in resistance and therefore cause slow cranking too.
Worn bearings, or stress windings in the starter can cause low torque thus slow spins.
Wrong viscosity of oil can also cause slow cranking.

 

[GeoHorn]

jumping WITH the tractor battery connected as well ?

It’s a looong story so I‘ll save you guys the time….. but I once had a Buick which gave every indication of an old dying battery.….. and even when jumping it with another running vehicle it simpy refused to turn-over… It …. b a r e l y …. did so…and insufficient to start.

I installed a new starter motor. No change.

A friend suggested replacing the battery. I said…B.S….because JUMPING didn’t work…so clearly (I thought) the battery isn’t the problem.

How WRONG I was.

After lots of driving back and forth (the car had died out of town) …..and trying everything in the book…. I FINALLY yanked that battery out and installed a USED battery.

It Fired RIGHT UP!

The existing battery had a shorted Cell…. which penalized even the wonderful supply of power from other GOOD batteries and Jumping-vehicles.

CHANGE THE BATTERY.

 

[fried1765]

It’s a looong story so I‘ll save you guys the time….. but I once had a Buick which gave every indication of an old dying battery.….. and even when jumping it with another running vehicle it simpy refused to turn-over… It …. b a r e l y …. did so…and insufficient to start.

I installed a new starter motor. No change.

A friend suggested replacing the battery. I said…B.S….because JUMPING didn’t work…so clearly (I thought) the battery isn’t the problem.

How WRONG I was.

After lots of driving back and forth (the car had died out of town) …..and trying everything in the book…. I FINALLY yanked that battery out and installed a USED battery.

It Fired RIGHT UP!

The existing battery had a shorted Cell…. which penalized even the wonderful supply of power from other GOOD batteries and Jumping-vehicles.

CHANGE THE BATTERY.

AGREED!
A cheap (100A) battery load tester can be bought at HF for $23, or better quality on Amazon for $46.
Every tractor owner should have a battery load tester!

 

[forrest carver]

Thanks for the tips, I always learn something here!

Interesting development to report. I disconnected the battery and jumped the starter directly with my truck, but no change. Still very slow to crank. Then I took the battery into work and charged it fully with a different battery charger. When I brought it home, voila! It's cranking at normal speed!

But....

The tractor is not starting. I am not getting any smoke out of the stack. Normally I will get white smoke out of the stack even if the glow plugs have not heated up enough, which turns darker once they are hot and then it starts up. So, new problem. Cranking is good, no smoke, no start. Thoughts?

 

[D2Cat]

If you have the cranking RPM problem solved I'd look at GP condition (maybe need to be on longer), treatment of fuel, then condition of engine (compression, injectors, etc.)

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes, get the glowplugs good and HOT then try to start. hopefully battery is really good, cause glowplugs take about 10 amps EACH and will drain a battery.
My forklift had 2 batteries, one for the starter,other for the huge glowplug in the air intake.separate wiring ,though common charging.
When you put 2 or more batteries in parallel, they'll all go DOWN to the battery with lowest voltage(the bad battery). Cheap truckers will replace 1 of 4 batteries, when they should replace ALL 4, and same make/model.

 

[PaulL]

Thin/inexpensive jumper cables can be part of the problem. Even jumping from a good battery, they can't deliver enough current to turn a cold engine. Trying to jump my partners V8 VW Touraeg doesn't work well without large jumper cables, jumping the boat with the 6.2L in it is also pretty hard without big cables.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

This is NOT advice, but simply a recent observation on starting a diesel that I had never considered.

In the Vermeer S925TX operators manual I recently downloaded, they say that you can crank the engine while you keep the glow plugs on.

I don't think that I could do that to my L2501 due to the wiring set up, and I don't know if you could/should either.

simply an observation.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

FWIW...
The BX23S (so BX23xx series) have glow plugs getting power while starting. Now that I have a GREAT clear wiring diagram , it's obvious to see.
The 3rd switch position is really 'preheat', 4th aka 'start' is 'heat and spin'.

I assume this is to get as much heat into the cylinders to get diesel to ignite,after all, in winter you're sucking in a lot of very, very cold air !

 

[Dave_eng]

This is NOT advice, but simply a recent observation on starting a diesel that I had never considered.

In the Vermeer S925TX operators manual I recently downloaded, they say that you can crank the engine while you keep the glow plugs on.

I don't think that I could do that to my L2501 due to the wiring set up, and I don't know if you could/should either.

simply an observation.

Kubota systems typically power the glow plugs when in the key switch start position.
On older systems with a Glow Indicator, the glow indicator is bypassed when key is in start position to ensure GP's get max voltage.
Your L2501 key switch does the same. GP's powered in preheat and start

Dave

 

[forrest carver]

My tractor is a jury rigged claptrap and the whole dash is disemboweled. My starting procedure is to connect a wire from the glow plug bus to the positive terminal, wait about 15 to 20 seconds, then bridge the starter solenoid until it starts. Then I remove the glow plug wire. Tonight I will give it a while on the glow plugs but what concerns me is that there is zero smoke. Usually I get white smoke even without heating the glow plugs first.

 

[D2Cat]

No smoke means no fuel. Might start at the fuel tank and check flow to IP. If all is good loosen lines at injectors and see what is there!

 

[D2Cat]

This is NOT advice, but simply a recent observation on starting a diesel that I had never considered.

In the Vermeer S925TX operators manual I recently downloaded, they say that you can crank the engine while you keep the glow plugs on.

I don't think that I could do that to my L2501 due to the wiring set up, and I don't know if you could/should either.

simply an observation.

I think the purpose is to prove full battery power to starting the engine. Some engines are set up to cycle the GP's after the engine is running until a particular temp is reached.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Have you made sure the GP's are actually heating, with all the messing around with jumper cables and the like it could have very easily fried the GP's.

If anyone tells you to use starting fluid IGRORE THEM!
Never use starting fluid (Ether) on a Kubota engine.

 

[Russell King]

Have you made sure the GP's are actually heating, with all the messing around with jumper cables and the like it could have very easily fried the GP's.

Since he has been bypassing the glow plug indicator (resistor) I would assume the glow plugs are now burnt out. I think that applying 12 volts to glow plug designed for 10 or 11 volts would shorten their lifespan.