L2501, slopes, and sanity-check

[Bogs]

I'm asking for people with experience with these small-ish tractors on less than ideal slopes -- described in the initial post -- running R4 tires, or the still likely too-new R14T tires.

I mowed those slopes with Husqvarna HST lawn mowers, and a blade on the string-trimmer prior to getting the tractor, and prior to my health turning south. I would burn-out one a year until I could convince my wife to let me spend the money on a much larger investment. A tractor payment is/was more than the $2,400 a year it cost to replace the lawn mower. After the second time the lawnmower's transmission burned-out, sending me hurtling towards the deep gully, "brakes" skidding the whole way, and rolling over me, she agreed that the heavier duty machine was worth it, and not just a toy. I'm not looking to repeat that with a larger, more expensive piece of equipment. I also don't want what little flat ground I have to be a churned-up mud-pit from the Ags. The first fall, I tried being careful, but it still turned the side-yard into a quagmire until spring, except for when it was frozen solid. A few days with the landscape rake during a drout that summer, and it was ready for new grass planting that fall.

The reasons for looking for alternatives to Ags that still work reasonably well on slopes are many. I can keep going until I forget which I've already stated, and start repeating. Having a second set of tires and rims are a possibility, but not next year. I have a budget that should allow me to replace the hemi in my truck, chewed-up cam while towing the tractor back from a side-job. My driveway is almost as steep as the steepest sections of the hill. It should also allow for an L2501 or L3301 if the latter is on about a $2 grand discount/sale, a box-blade or scrape blade, and a flail. A tractor without a cutter won't cut the brambles and keep 'em from taking-over again. I can go cheaper and get another rotary cutter instead of a flail, but I used a flail a lot on much flatter Northern Florida, and I much prefer the cut they give, so I'm budgeting for one as best I can.

I don't mean to sound like a pr*ck, but theory-crafting/bench-racing isn't what I'm asking about. Tons of people say that you shouldn't run R4 in wet, mud, snow, slopes, or whatever. Tons of others say you should be able to. Real-world. R4, or R14T on slopes, 14 to 27.5 degrees, or 25% to 52% measured as 24 to 50 inches of drop over 8 horizontal feet, measured. I explain that I'm backing up the slope, and going down, not sideways. I explain that I've driven tractors for the better part of 40 years, but only on flat sugar-sand, and in flat marsh land. I successfully mowed with an L3901 for 3 years with filled R1 tires, loader, and BH-15 60-inch bush-hog. That tractor and implements are gone, sold. I can't afford a new L3901, they're $4,000 more expensive than when I bought it initially, and I'm on a somewhat tight budget. No credit.

I spelled-out the issues I had. I spelled-out how I tested, and what I was told by the local mechanics that I'm supposed to listen to. Yes, some dealers are great. The ones around me don't seem to be all that good. The one I bought it from, especially.

That's why I hit these forums with the very detailed and specific question asking for real-world experience on slopes with specific equipment. I know I'm not the only one asking. I've seen people asking the question, and seen people respond with generic "You should just run Ag", "You can't work hills that steep", or my favorite "I'm tired of answering this question." without any sign that the question was answered with a real-world test.

I've searched youtube, and most of those seem to try to direct me to Ventrac. While I have and am considering that as an option, it isn't my best option. $15,000 for an FEL. $3,400 for a "Tough Cut". $1,200 for the dual wheel kit. $24,000 for the tractor alone and no implements. It would take close to three years of tight budgeting to afford those basics. Two to afford the tractor, wider wheels, and tough-cut/rotary. This economy may be helping some people out, but it's put me out of work twice in the last three years. Seems to be driving prices up quite a bit on Tractors. L3901 was $17,000 new when I bought it, and about $21,000 to replace it with no real changes to the equipment to justify a $4,000 price increase other than the "p" word. (Poly meaning many, and Ticks which are blood-sucking parasites).

Again, sorry to vent, but look back in the thread, and see how many responses include "I tried taking my B/Big-B/L-series with R4 tires up a slope with X% grade, and it worked great or failed to climb in wet/dry/average conditions."

Frustrating, given that talking to most dealers, including the two near me, and others in surrounding states like TN, KY, VA, SC, GA, or dealers with YouTube channels like Messick's and some others, and they all emphatically state that the most common tire sold with their tractors, Kubota or not, are R4.

I appreciate the responses, but I keep stressing "real world", and Roadworthy was the only one who responded as having taken the L2501 on hills as I described, but with Ags unfilled. That's helpful to know that the L2501 can handle the slopes with the HP. HP moves a geared tractor, some of which runs the hydraulic pump that handles the FEL and steering. HP turns the PTO that turns the rotary-cutter/flail. So that's a help for knowing the machine can handle it, but that's with Ags, and I'd like to know about R4/R14T on a specific grade of slopes as the remainder of the question. An L3301 could be an option, as I've seen some people claim that they bought one from dealer x or y for a few hundred over the MSRP for the L2501. But the hypothetical and "common knowledge" answers aren't helpful, which is why I didn't add this to a similar post a couple pages deep in this sub-forum about an L2501.

It's common knowledge that you urinate on a jellyfish sting . . . the common knowledge is wrong, just ask any marine biologist or medical personnel with real-world experience treating jellyfish/man-o-war incidents. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-urinating/ )

I don't know if common knowledge is wrong when it comes to various tires and slopes. https://www.youtube.com/user/neilrmessick/search?query=traction They tested their "Bar-Turf" tires, and they pulled harder, broke-free and dug a hole, a mild form of what I described, mine getting 8 to 12 inches deep before I could safely get out of the situation. If you watch the "Surprising traction differences between R4\\R14\\Bar-Turf" passed the long blank section, you get the monkey-wrench in how hard the Bar-Turf pulled, and how the R4 didn't break free, but whined until the tractor nearly stalled. I've written to Messick's asking for more testing on slopes or with a geared tractor. No response, no surprise. Who am I to them? But that's at least a real-world scenario. In that test, the R4 and R14T were essentially pulling the same numbers, but that was a limited test.

I'm just expressing frustration and why. I'm not directing it at y'all. Thanks for the responses. I'm a very blunt person. I try my best to communicate differently, but most of the time, my wife has to tell me when and who I'm supposed to apologize to, and often why.

 

[PaulL]

I understand what you're saying. I have no real world experience to contribute with an L2501 on slopes with R4s. In fact, no real world experience with an L2501 at all, since that model isn't available in NZ. So I only have theory to contribute, or I can just not contribute at all.

I suspect you're looking for quite narrow experience, there may be nobody who's done that before and is also on this site and able to comment. So you're going to get lots of part answers, and that's just the reality of the internet. Sometimes you have to give it a try yourself, and leave room to correct if it doesn't work. So if you can only afford an L2501, that's tractor sorted. If your dealer will let you try R4s, and swap if they don't work, then good. If they'll let you get them unfilled, then if that doesn't work fill them, then good.

 

[BAP]

I'm asking for people with experience with these small-ish tractors on less than ideal slopes -- described in the initial post -- running R4 tires, or the still likely too-new R14T tires.

I mowed those slopes with Husqvarna HST lawn mowers, and a blade on the string-trimmer prior to getting the tractor, and prior to my health turning south. I would burn-out one a year until I could convince my wife to let me spend the money on a much larger investment. A tractor payment is/was more than the $2,400 a year it cost to replace the lawn mower. After the second time the lawnmower's transmission burned-out, sending me hurtling towards the deep gully, "brakes" skidding the whole way, and rolling over me, she agreed that the heavier duty machine was worth it, and not just a toy. I'm not looking to repeat that with a larger, more expensive piece of equipment. I also don't want what little flat ground I have to be a churned-up mud-pit from the Ags. The first fall, I tried being careful, but it still turned the side-yard into a quagmire until spring, except for when it was frozen solid. A few days with the landscape rake during a drout that summer, and it was ready for new grass planting that fall.

The reasons for looking for alternatives to Ags that still work reasonably well on slopes are many. I can keep going until I forget which I've already stated, and start repeating. Having a second set of tires and rims are a possibility, but not next year. I have a budget that should allow me to replace the hemi in my truck, chewed-up cam while towing the tractor back from a side-job. My driveway is almost as steep as the steepest sections of the hill. It should also allow for an L2501 or L3301 if the latter is on about a $2 grand discount/sale, a box-blade or scrape blade, and a flail. A tractor without a cutter won't cut the brambles and keep 'em from taking-over again. I can go cheaper and get another rotary cutter instead of a flail, but I used a flail a lot on much flatter Northern Florida, and I much prefer the cut they give, so I'm budgeting for one as best I can.

I don't mean to sound like a pr*ck, but theory-crafting/bench-racing isn't what I'm asking about. Tons of people say that you shouldn't run R4 in wet, mud, snow, slopes, or whatever. Tons of others say you should be able to. Real-world. R4, or R14T on slopes, 14 to 27.5 degrees, or 25% to 52% measured as 24 to 50 inches of drop over 8 horizontal feet, measured. I explain that I'm backing up the slope, and going down, not sideways. I explain that I've driven tractors for the better part of 40 years, but only on flat sugar-sand, and in flat marsh land. I successfully mowed with an L3901 for 3 years with filled R1 tires, loader, and BH-15 60-inch bush-hog. That tractor and implements are gone, sold. I can't afford a new L3901, they're $4,000 more expensive than when I bought it initially, and I'm on a somewhat tight budget. No credit.

I spelled-out the issues I had. I spelled-out how I tested, and what I was told by the local mechanics that I'm supposed to listen to. Yes, some dealers are great. The ones around me don't seem to be all that good. The one I bought it from, especially.

That's why I hit these forums with the very detailed and specific question asking for real-world experience on slopes with specific equipment. I know I'm not the only one asking. I've seen people asking the question, and seen people respond with generic "You should just run Ag", "You can't work hills that steep", or my favorite "I'm tired of answering this question." without any sign that the question was answered with a real-world test.

I've searched youtube, and most of those seem to try to direct me to Ventrac. While I have and am considering that as an option, it isn't my best option. $15,000 for an FEL. $3,400 for a "Tough Cut". $1,200 for the dual wheel kit. $24,000 for the tractor alone and no implements. It would take close to three years of tight budgeting to afford those basics. Two to afford the tractor, wider wheels, and tough-cut/rotary. This economy may be helping some people out, but it's put me out of work twice in the last three years. Seems to be driving prices up quite a bit on Tractors. L3901 was $17,000 new when I bought it, and about $21,000 to replace it with no real changes to the equipment to justify a $4,000 price increase other than the "p" word. (Poly meaning many, and Ticks which are blood-sucking parasites).

Again, sorry to vent, but look back in the thread, and see how many responses include "I tried taking my B/Big-B/L-series with R4 tires up a slope with X% grade, and it worked great or failed to climb in wet/dry/average conditions."

Frustrating, given that talking to most dealers, including the two near me, and others in surrounding states like TN, KY, VA, SC, GA, or dealers with YouTube channels like Messick's and some others, and they all emphatically state that the most common tire sold with their tractors, Kubota or not, are R4.

I appreciate the responses, but I keep stressing "real world", and Roadworthy was the only one who responded as having taken the L2501 on hills as I described, but with Ags unfilled. That's helpful to know that the L2501 can handle the slopes with the HP. HP moves a geared tractor, some of which runs the hydraulic pump that handles the FEL and steering. HP turns the PTO that turns the rotary-cutter/flail. So that's a help for knowing the machine can handle it, but that's with Ags, and I'd like to know about R4/R14T on a specific grade of slopes as the remainder of the question. An L3301 could be an option, as I've seen some people claim that they bought one from dealer x or y for a few hundred over the MSRP for the L2501. But the hypothetical and "common knowledge" answers aren't helpful, which is why I didn't add this to a similar post a couple pages deep in this sub-forum about an L2501.

It's common knowledge that you urinate on a jellyfish sting . . . the common knowledge is wrong, just ask any marine biologist or medical personnel with real-world experience treating jellyfish/man-o-war incidents. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-urinating/ )

I don't know if common knowledge is wrong when it comes to various tires and slopes. https://www.youtube.com/user/neilrmessick/search?query=traction They tested their "Bar-Turf" tires, and they pulled harder, broke-free and dug a hole, a mild form of what I described, mine getting 8 to 12 inches deep before I could safely get out of the situation. If you watch the "Surprising traction differences between R4\\R14\\Bar-Turf" passed the long blank section, you get the monkey-wrench in how hard the Bar-Turf pulled, and how the R4 didn't break free, but whined until the tractor nearly stalled. I've written to Messick's asking for more testing on slopes or with a geared tractor. No response, no surprise. Who am I to them? But that's at least a real-world scenario. In that test, the R4 and R14T were essentially pulling the same numbers, but that was a limited test.

I'm just expressing frustration and why. I'm not directing it at y'all. Thanks for the responses. I'm a very blunt person. I try my best to communicate differently, but most of the time, my wife has to tell me when and who I'm supposed to apologize to, and often why.

You know, I offered you some reasons as to why the tires on your previous tractor did not pull the best. Those reasons apply the same to another tractor. I run Rimguard in my B2920 at 18-20 psi and have never spun a tire. Your mechanic was just covering his Butt telling you to run that much psi. The harder a tire is, the less traction it will have. If you are concerned, then put tubes in. I have 40+ years of real world experience operating tractors on hills steeper than yours farming with everything from a 15hp tractor to over 250hp. But you seem to have already made your mind up that you are not going to accept general suggestions so this will be my last post with ideas to help. I

 

[Bogs]

You know, I offered you some reasons as to why the tires on your previous tractor did not pull the best. Those reasons apply the same to another tractor. I run Rimguard in my B2920 at 18-20 psi and have never spun a tire. Your mechanic was just covering his Butt telling you to run that much psi. The harder a tire is, the less traction it will have. If you are concerned, then put tubes in. I have 40+ years of real world experience operating tractors on hills steeper than yours farming with everything from a 15hp tractor to over 250hp. But you seem to have already made your mind up that you are not going to accept general suggestions so this will be my last post with ideas to help. I

Again, thanks for the responses. I know I'm a "pita". I have, and am considering other tractors, but I'm working to a price-point, and it's nerve-wracking how tight everything is. Last year, I pulled my wife's car, and two neighbors' vehicles out of trouble over the winter multiple times. The weight of responsibility and knowing that this winter I won't be able to help is crushing.

It isn't that I'm not willing to accept general responses. It's that most general responses are the equivalent of "Have you tied your shoes?". Others go into the territory of basic theory that anyone over 16 should know after growing-up so rural that the boonies seem hoity-toity. I don't, and can't know anyone's background or experience, or even intentions. I appreciate that you mentioned that "A small tractor will handle the slopes just as well as a big tractor as long as you are using implements sized for the small tractor." Growing-up, we had large Deere tricycles that I hated, but the smallest tractor, a '65(or thereabout) IH Cub with a 6' or so belly mower did the majority of the work on the farm, from mowing the yard to cutting pastures for hay to hauling the loaded potato wagons to drag-weeding the fields. So many people push for "look at the largest tractor you think you'll need, and buy two steps larger", and that's just ridiculous consumption and ego in 99% of the cases.

I know that the generic advice is meant well. Given the framing of the question, though -- at least to the way my many-times-concussed brain thins -- it seems that the basics are covered, given that I took the time to carry board and level around measuring grade and explained what I experienced.

Given a different response from PaulL, apparently, my trying to narrow the scope to the L series using specific tires came across as narrowing it only to the L2501, and only on spot-on grade. So the back-and-forth of attempted conversation is overcorrecting in both directions . . . too specific and too vague. The reason for narrowing the scope is mostly the weight applied to the ground contact patch of the tires. B and BX are lighter and have different contact patches in addition to being HST. Many people say steep grades burn-out/overheat HST transmissions. If I dismiss that, I'm still left with the concern about my own physical limitations of the HST pedal and diff-lock layout. Familiarity is what drives my focus on the L series, budget drives the window down to the L2501 and possibly the L3301. I'm not one of the people who have an irrational fear of DPF, though I understand the issue with the B3350's DPF.

I'm not trying to be an *ss, but I know I come across that way. I'm direct, blunt, and abrasive. I could try self-analysis, but that's not a topic for a tractor forum.

A lot of the frustration, I tried to explain. I've read each response, evaluated, and depending on the amount of pertinent information, responded in kind. Some of what I've been told by dealers is bleeding-over into the forum thread. I don't know if there's a New Hampshire equivalent, but due to growing-up moving around every two years, my accent doesn't match the area's, and it isn't as thick and twangy as when I was a kid. That relegates me to "Other", and I'm treated like I've never worked a day in my life. Add to that, my inability to communicate without ticking everyone off . . .

Regardless, thanks for the responses. I'm sorry if I made you feel as though I was being dismissive.

 

[Bogs]

I understand what you're saying. I have no real world experience to contribute with an L2501 on slopes with R4s. In fact, no real world experience with an L2501 at all, since that model isn't available in NZ. So I only have theory to contribute, or I can just not contribute at all.

I suspect you're looking for quite narrow experience, there may be nobody who's done that before and is also on this site and able to comment. So you're going to get lots of part answers, and that's just the reality of the internet. Sometimes you have to give it a try yourself, and leave room to correct if it doesn't work. So if you can only afford an L2501, that's tractor sorted. If your dealer will let you try R4s, and swap if they don't work, then good. If they'll let you get them unfilled, then if that doesn't work fill them, then good.

Thanks, PaulL. I wasn't trying to be dismissive, or to narrow the scope strictly to the L2501. *I* did narrow my example to it to try to forestall "You should buy X, instead". The Dealers in the area, like I mentioned, keep pushing the upsell to the MX, and one of them tried to upsell me to the M5 Low Profile, but wasn't willing to sell that to me for the price of the L2501/3301. Go figure.

The reasoning behind stressing the real-world with the L series is that the weight is fairly consistent across the line. The tires are consistent widths and diameters, giving the same contact patch, and the tire brands are consistent, so if one were to buy R1s in Georgia or in Maine, they'd be the same tread. Same with R4, assuming they were bought from the dealer and not aftermarket.

Fill is one variable. The main focus is the use of . . .

• FRONT - 27x8.50-15 R4 Titan Trac Loader TL
• REAR - 15-19.5 R4 Titan Trac Loader 3.6"offset

. . . on a tractor that weighs around 2425 to 2623 pounds, and on steep slopes. The exact tire sizing isn't critical, but is the center of the topic combined with the weight and wheelbase.

The reason for asking is that the majority of modern tractors -- in North America -- are sold with R4 tires, according to most dealers I've talked to, and seen or read about while researching this on my own for the last year or so, and more-so in the last few months.

The dealers in my area are condescending and dismissive. One is great. The one I bought from. Up until I purchased it. After that, every interaction was as if I were asking them to move Mt. Fuji with a pair of tweezers. "Could I get a quote for a set of R4 and rims for an L-series I just bought from you, mounted?" Response: "[Sigh] I guess they're around $6,000 or so." "Seriously? Could you email me that quote?" "Hold on. [Sigh] . . . It'd be about $2,000." "Okay, could you send me that quote so I can work the budget?" "Look, come in and buy them, or not. We don't give quotes because prices change." The other dealer, the one that's considered good, won't return a call or email. Going in and talking with them, they listen to me talk about one of their lower-end tractors, and I can see them lose interest. When asking about the possibility of swapping tires after purchase, they offered to sell me a second set instead.

Needless to say, I'll be going farther afield when I have the funds. But if I can't get a quote from the local dealers, there's little chance they'll work with me on demoing tires. I know there's no way for you to know that. I guess having dealers that will work with you makes me more than a little jealous.

I'm sorry if I came across as dismissive. Like everyone, I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. What I have is a blunt, abrasive, direct brain that I can only temper a bit, and apologize for after.

 

[D2Cat]

Bogs, there are a couple of guys on this forum who could probably be a big help with your questions. One even has the tractor you seem to desire, and uses a flail mower, and has many hours mowing on hills others would not attempt.

Your dissertations get into your opinion of a failed economy, to treating jelly fish stings, your health, increased in tractor prices.... and are long winded! Yet if you get a reply from someone who has not been on your hillside you spew about not real life experiences.

The guys I'm thinking about are not going to read your long post. If you do a search on a review of an L2501 you may discover them.

You asked for a sanity-check, so I offered one!

 

[Oliver]

I just sold my L3901 with beet-juiced R1 Ags. Lot of things happened at once leading to needing to sell.

I'm looking at getting an L2501 next year, and I'm thinking about R4 or R14T and have been debating whether the fill is needed or not with myself. ....

So, I guess to sum-up:

• With steep hills, to fill or not to fill.

• Ags again since they worked, or look at the R4/R14T to have a little less rototillerless tilling, maybe?

• Do you think the L2501 (DT most likely) has enough grunt to handle those grades with a flail?

Thanks!

I recently changed from a B2650 to an L2501 which is somewhat of a lateral move in many respects. I'll offer some random comments in case any could be of help in your decision.

Stability;
Their were a number of reasons but the main reason I did was for more stability, the B just felt a littler tippy on side slopes. Taking my tape measure to the rear tires outside measurement (both with R4's) IIRC the B2650 was 53" the L 58", and both tractors have about the same ground clearance. So even if I added 2" spacers the B would be a little narrower. The stock L definitely felt more planted than the B did and then after adding 2" spacers to the L I'm now quite comfortable on side slopes. Given your slopes, if you get another L, I'd suggest adding 2" or even 3" spacers. The price seemed a little high but I went with Bromar, given the quality and how much they helped I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Hydro pedal and diff lock.
I use the two together quite often and in all honesty I never thought using them both could be awkward until I read your post here? I really don't think you'd have any problem at all.

Filled Tires:
L2501, especially with FEL and an implement on the back, is a fairly heavy 25hp tractor. So with a mower hanging off the back and FEL on to counter balance it I didn't want to burden those 25 horses with another 700 pounds of tire weight so I chose not to fill mine. Filled tires alone really won't counter balance the FEL anyway. Other reasons I had to not fill them are for optimum ride quality, the R4's had to be aired down quite a lot to get them leaving a flat footprint which lets them get more traction and with all air in them it really rides nice. Also I've had to deal with flat tires on previous tractors which were an inconvenience, had they been liquid filled it would have been MUCH more difficult to deal with.

Power;
I'm sure an L2501 will be under powered for some (that's why Kubota makes the 33 and 3901). For instance it would be out of its element trying to mow long heavy grass, fast, up hills. In my case I have the same flail you are considering (Woodmaxx 62) and it did just fine mowing down my meadows which hadn't been mowed in two years. I plan on mowing them once a year in the Fall. However what I mow is not real steep, also it is fairly bumpy/ rough so I have to mow pretty slow...... I probably couldn't mow any faster even if I had more power. And when it comes to traction, FEL capacity, 3-poing lift, etc., they are basically the same on all the L01's.

DT/Hydro
I wouldn't want the power disconnected to my mower every time I stopped, or change gears which is what happens on a DT L2501. I like being able to vary speed on the go when mowing, and for loader work it's hard to beat HST, so DT wasn't really a consideration for me.

Tires;
I went back and forth on tires eventually deciding on R4's and in my experience they work well in dirt, ok in mud, fine on the road, and don't chew up the yard. Where they don't do well is side traction, say on wet grass on the side of a hill I have had the rear slip a couple times. If R14's were available when I bought I'd probably have gone with them.

 

[Bogs]

I recently changed from a B2650 to an L2501 which is somewhat of a lateral move in many respects. I'll offer some random comments in case any could be of help in your decision.

Stability;
. . .

Hydro pedal and diff lock.
. . .

Thanks for the response. I did have spacers on the R1s, but tried to avoid going across most slopes whenever possible. It got tippy with fill and bush-hog, FEL a couple inches over the ground. I'm glad to hear that spacers with the R4 making it feel more "planted". That was what I was hoping for.

The issues with the diff-lock could just be my health-issues. All of my joints dislocate easily.

Filled Tires:
. . .

Power;
. . .

I'm glad to hear about your experiences with the fill. I'd hate to have to take the tractor right back if I couldn't get the 2501 to grunt up the hill with it.

Power. That's the largest appeal to the L series for me. The work capacity as far as the hydraulics are concerned, are essentially the same. It's hard to get opinions from people without ego getting in the way.

DT/Hydro
. . .

Tires;
. . .

The only trouble I had with the DT on slopes was when shifting from R to F. Solid mash on brakes at the top.

Good to hear about the side-slip. I try to avoid going sideways on most of the slopes. There's only an acre or two out of the 6 that I can go cross-wise without a steep oblique angle, and another acre and change I can't do hardly any oblique angles on, just forward and back, up and down.

Thanks again. I'll keep an eye on the R14T as more people get them, and see what they're capable of. They spec-out to the same basic footprint of the R4, so if the sidewalls are stiffer than the R1s, they should do fine. If they're supple like the R1s, then they'll probably still do fine other than squishy/bouncy loader work. Otherwise, the R4s will probably be what I go with.

Shiny-side up.

 

[PaulL]

I'll preface it with "not personal experience", but my theory is that you might be able to fabricate something to lock the difflock down for you without having to constantly mash it. It sounds like a large proportion of your usage you'd leave it locked, so some sort of catch or chain that'd hold it engaged should be possible. Seems like that's a better option than getting a DT and still having to mash the diff lock, but just not press the HST pedal. Of the two, the HST pedal is the easier to use.

Of course, that doesn't answer your question about burning an HST out on hill work. I've personally never heard of that, but doesn't mean it isn't real.

 

[Bogs]

I'll preface it with "not personal experience", but my theory is that you might be able to fabricate something to lock the difflock down for you without having to constantly mash it. It sounds like a large proportion of your usage you'd leave it locked, so some sort of catch or chain that'd hold it engaged should be possible. Seems like that's a better option than getting a DT and still having to mash the diff lock, but just not press the HST pedal. Of the two, the HST pedal is the easier to use.

Of course, that doesn't answer your question about burning an HST out on hill work. I've personally never heard of that, but doesn't mean it isn't real.

Yeah, as time progresses, I'll have to look into options like the things at http://www.agrability.org/toolbox/?mode=browse When I was talking about the issues before, I think I typed it, that, or I only thought it -- about drilling a mount and fabbing either a hook or a "drop-block" that falls into place when I mash the diff-lock fully, then to disengage, mash and swipe to get the block out of the way. There's room behind that panel it sticks through. Probably need a reinforcement plate because of the pressure needed to mash it. That, or my tractor was set-up funky from the dealer. I know a neighbor got a land-pride implement from the same dealer, and they assembled the riser that the top link connects to backwards.

The Ventrac has a separate cooler and fan for the hydrostat. I'll check in the "Mods" section to see if anyone's had to or wanted to add an aux cooler or larger cooler for the L's HST. I haven't researched them a lot, yet, to know if there's already a cooler or not for it since I had the DT. When I ran hydrostat equipment before, I was always warned that heat was the big thing to watch-out for. I don't know for sure, so plenty of time for research. Oliver said his slopes are similar grade, and his is HST with R4, so I'll consider that when I expand the radius of my dealer-search over the winter.

Thanks again. I hope you have a better summer than mine.

 

[Ike]

I have an L 3301 DT and I use it on slopes one slope is like yours. I have R 4 tires and the only time I lost any traction was in loose sand. My tires are weighted. The biggest problem I have with the R 4 tires is if you get the slightest bit sideways on the slope they will start sliding sideways and then the fun starts. Wet grass is a no no also. I would never get R 4 tires on anything again but that just me and for what I use the tractor for

 

[Cathy Liebchen]

I agree with DCat, I couldn't make it through more than a few lines of these waaay too wordy posts, and we always skip over when the post is arguing with advice received.

Here is some real world experience. We have multiple properties in the mountains and have owned or own 3 of the tractors you mentioned- L 2501, L3901, MX5800. Rule out the L2501 immediately- too sluggish on hills- need power to pull implements. The MX 5800 is far more stable on slopes than any L. Ours has the rear wheels set widest setting and loaded. All have/had R4's, they are fine as we don't work in the rain. Much better for loader work than R1's.

I see the dealer as trying to give you good advice, not necessarily upselling you to an MX. It is far more tractor than a standard L.

I understand some people can't afford to buy what they really need but that is life- compromises.

 

[PaulL]

When I ran hydrostat equipment before, I was always warned that heat was the big thing to watch-out for. I don't know for sure, so plenty of time for research. Oliver said his slopes are similar grade, and his is HST with R4, so I'll consider that when I expand the radius of my dealer-search over the winter.

I believe the L2501 has the same transmission as the L3301 and L3901. Others could confirm. I'd theorise (I know, now I'm just teasing you) that an L2501 wouldn't have enough HP to overheat it. But others would know that for sure.

Thanks again. I hope you have a better summer than mine.

Summer just starting for us - well, not even starting really. Tomatoes are in, but last frost might still be coming.

 

[PaulL]

Rule out the L2501 immediately- too sluggish on hills- need power to pull implements.

@Cathy, if you didn't have the money for more tractor, and for good reason were unwilling to buy second hand, would the L2501 be unable to do the job, or just slow at doing the job? Would you have to go up the hills in L instead of M perhaps, or would it not go up the hills at all?

Sounds to me like the OP already knows from experience that it's backing up the hills, and mowing forwards down them. And that given the steepness, he's probably backing up the hills in L anyway. In that world, it might not be HP that's limiting speed.

 

[Bogs]

I believe the L2501 has the same transmission as the L3301 and L3901. Others could confirm. I'd theorise (I know, now I'm just teasing you) that an L2501 wouldn't have enough HP to overheat it. But others would know that for sure.

No worries, man. I'll check the PDF manuals for them. I'm pretty-sure the baby L is the same as the larger two. I thought the L4701 was a one-off chassis, or something. Not really sure if the HP itself is what would overheat or not. I was thinking just the continual load on the slopes. I'm definitely not a great mechanic. Less so with these modern tractors.

Summer just starting for us - well, not even starting really. Tomatoes are in, but last frost might still be coming.

It's about the same here. Just started getting cool, but is still getting in the 70s F during the day. Was hitting 85F last week. Weird with the leaves changing and falling when its hot enough to sweat just putting away the random FOD that the coming winds are going to blow away otherwise.

 

[CapnDean]

I installed 2" spacers on my L3901: I filled the R4 tires with waste antifreeze. It made the machine 10X more stable on slopes

 

[Bogs]

I have an L 3301 DT and I use it on slopes one slope is like yours. I have R 4 tires and the only time I lost any traction was in loose sand. My tires are weighted. The biggest problem I have with the R 4 tires is if you get the slightest bit sideways on the slope they will start sliding sideways and then the fun starts. Wet grass is a no no also. I would never get R 4 tires on anything again but that just me and for what I use the tractor for

Thanks, Ike.
Sideways was a concern, given the general shape of the tread on the R4, but I do my best to keep the rear of the tractor facing up-slope on the steeper acreage. Sideways with R4s is like a bald-tired Dodge in the rain, then?

From what I've heard so far, R4 isn't ideal, but it's the best compromise between R3 and R1. The R1 worked for me, but they dug deep, which made subsequent passes tricky, especially if it rains before my tamped fills set, and wash-out the 4 half-moons.

Given the feedback, I'm confident that the L2501 should work fine with R4s in my situation, but if I can get a good deal on the L3301 -- or another L3901 -- and the price difference is negligible, then I'll go for that. I'm going to keep an eye on R14T as they start getting used more. They're being sold sized for the L series as of the last couple months, but aren't in the online configurator other than the BX series.

Thanks again, and thanks for the warnings. I do my damnedest to mitigate hazzards. (as evidenced by my previously expressed borderline paranoid concerns)

 

[Bogs]

I installed 2" spacers on my L3901: I filled the R4 tires with waste antifreeze. It made the machine 10X more stable on slopes

Thanks. Spacers, I planned-on as a given. The 2" are aftermarket, or that's the size for R4s? I think the ones I had were 1.4" or something like that, for about a 3-inch spread between the two sides.

I think I'm going to start with them unfilled, and bite the bullet for a return trip to fill if I need to. My last set -- R1 -- were filled with rimguard.

Thanks again.

 

[Ike]

The reason I got the R 4 was for the extra width it gave the trac and the sidewalls are thicker. I use my loader all the time and for this they are great. I was told by the dealer they won't puncture as easy as the R 1's. I have pulled 3000 lbs of fertilizer and spreader up he slope I told about without a problem after the neighbor tore his small tractor up pulling it. He jack knifed it and slid down the hill sideways on 3 wheels. It ripped the PTO shaft out of his trac plus a bunch of other damage. I would never have done this but I did it as a favor and I have 60 plus years of experence on tractors, but the pucker factor was still there