L2501 FEL 'deadheading' on lift/lower works normal when also curling bucket (w/video)

[coreyperez]

All,

Thanks for your interest.
2015(ish) L2501 with 394.2hours. The tractor has been equipped like this since new. Approx 150hrs on the hydraulic filters/fluid (last changed at 252hours). I have never altered the hydraulic pressure and only used Kubota UDT Fluid. 3-point appears to work as expected, mower operated as expected.

I noticed my grapple would not operate at normal speed while opening it to disconnect and load my bucket. This seemed to 'go away', and I couldn't pinpoint what was causing this issue. I needed to get the tractor out mowing, so I attempted to disconnect the grapple, but the lines were 'hydro-locked' (under pressure), which was unexpected. I usually curl the grapple down to let the pivot side of the grapple 'hang', thus ensuring it has no pressure on it when I'm disconnecting it (or put both sides equally on the ground. I repositioned the grapple on the ground as I often do and still could not disconnect the grapple. I shut off the tractor, and when I pushed one of the grapple buttons, the FEL lurched slightly (Never has done this previously). I was able to now disconnect the grapple. I connected the bucket and found the FEL did not want to raise/lower at normal speed UNLESS I was also curling the bucket (1:30-1:35 mark in the video). At this point, the speed would be normal, and I started to notice a 'whine' (I usually wear headphones when using the tractor). This 'whine' was representative of pushing the 4way FEL control lever up at a 45deg but not far enough to actuate a control.

One of the most noteworthy items I've discovered. If I am attempting to SLOWLY lower the bucket (forward on the control), the arms EVER SO SLIGHTLY will often raise and then start to go down. I tried to show this in the video, but it is far more apparent in person (You may see this around the 22-24, 39-43, second mark.

I've searched through previous postings and found the one linked next. This owner's issue was with the rear 3-point control. I used my mower for about 3 hours and feel confident that this issue is not the same, as I've repositioned my 3point likely 100-ish times during my mowing session.

Loader 4-way valve problem

Greetings everyone. I am new to the forum, so this is my first post. Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but my 4-way valve sounds like my bucket tilt circuit is deadheading (making that sort of screeching sound you here when you deadhead the bucket tilt after it has made its full...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I initially thought my solenoid had failed for the 3rd function, but this feature is not being used, and the problem still exists.

I appreciate any guidance or direction you can provide as a starting point. I was considering pulling every hose off the tractor, but I figured approaching this systematically would benefit me meaningfully.

Greatly appreciated,

Corey

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like you have bad quick connection.
Try and remove and reseat each connection.

 

[TheOldHokie]

All,

Thanks for your interest.
2015(ish) L2501 with 394.2hours. The tractor has been equipped like this since new. Approx 150hrs on the hydraulic filters/fluid (last changed at 252hours). I have never altered the hydraulic pressure and only used Kubota UDT Fluid. 3-point appears to work as expected, mower operated as expected.

I noticed my grapple would not operate at normal speed while opening it to disconnect and load my bucket. This seemed to 'go away', and I couldn't pinpoint what was causing this issue. I needed to get the tractor out mowing, so I attempted to disconnect the grapple, but the lines were 'hydro-locked' (under pressure), which was unexpected. I usually curl the grapple down to let the pivot side of the grapple 'hang', thus ensuring it has no pressure on it when I'm disconnecting it (or put both sides equally on the ground. I repositioned the grapple on the ground as I often do and still could not disconnect the grapple. I shut off the tractor, and when I pushed one of the grapple buttons, the FEL lurched slightly (Never has done this previously). I was able to now disconnect the grapple. I connected the bucket and found the FEL did not want to raise/lower at normal speed UNLESS I was also curling the bucket (1:30-1:35 mark in the video). At thio point, the speed would be normal, and I started to notice a 'whine' (I usually wear headphones when using the tractor). This 'whine' was representative of pushing the 4way FEL control lever up at a 45deg but not far enough to actuate a control.

One of the most noteworthy items I've discovered. If I am attempting to SLOWLY lower the bucket (forward on the control), the arms EVER SO SLIGHTLY will often raise and then start to go down. I tried to show this in the video, but it is far more apparent in person (You may see this around the 22-24, 39-43, second mark.

I've searched through previous postings and found the one linked next. This owner's issue was with the rear 3-point control. I used my mower for about 3 hours and feel confident that this issue is not the same, as I've repositioned my 3point likely 100-ish times during my mowing session.

Loader 4-way valve problem

Greetings everyone. I am new to the forum, so this is my first post. Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but my 4-way valve sounds like my bucket tilt circuit is deadheading (making that sort of screeching sound you here when you deadhead the bucket tilt after it has made its full...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I initially thought my solenoid had failed for the 3rd function, but this feature is not being used, and the problem still exists.

I appreciate any guidance or direction you can provide as a starting point. I was considering pulling every hose off the tractor, but I figured approaching this systematically would benefit me meaningfully.

Greatly appreciated,

Corey

View attachment 107852 View attachment 107853

This is a very common problem. If lift/lower/grapple works when curl/dump is active but blocks when curl/dump is not active the problem is most likely in the power beyond circuit. Bad coupler connection or one of the downstream valves (e.g. the 3pt or a remote) is not in neutral. Put the 3pt control in the full down position. If you have a backhoe check those connections as well.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

All,

Thanks for your interest.
2015(ish) L2501 with 394.2hours. The tractor has been equipped like this since new. Approx 150hrs on the hydraulic filters/fluid (last changed at 252hours). I have never altered the hydraulic pressure and only used Kubota UDT Fluid. 3-point appears to work as expected, mower operated as expected.

I noticed my grapple would not operate at normal speed while opening it to disconnect and load my bucket. This seemed to 'go away', and I couldn't pinpoint what was causing this issue. I needed to get the tractor out mowing, so I attempted to disconnect the grapple, but the lines were 'hydro-locked' (under pressure), which was unexpected. I usually curl the grapple down to let the pivot side of the grapple 'hang', thus ensuring it has no pressure on it when I'm disconnecting it (or put both sides equally on the ground. I repositioned the grapple on the ground as I often do and still could not disconnect the grapple. I shut off the tractor, and when I pushed one of the grapple buttons, the FEL lurched slightly (Never has done this previously). I was able to now disconnect the grapple. I connected the bucket and found the FEL did not want to raise/lower at normal speed UNLESS I was also curling the bucket (1:30-1:35 mark in the video). At this point, the speed would be normal, and I started to notice a 'whine' (I usually wear headphones when using the tractor). This 'whine' was representative of pushing the 4way FEL control lever up at a 45deg but not far enough to actuate a control.

One of the most noteworthy items I've discovered. If I am attempting to SLOWLY lower the bucket (forward on the control), the arms EVER SO SLIGHTLY will often raise and then start to go down. I tried to show this in the video, but it is far more apparent in person (You may see this around the 22-24, 39-43, second mark.

I've searched through previous postings and found the one linked next. This owner's issue was with the rear 3-point control. I used my mower for about 3 hours and feel confident that this issue is not the same, as I've repositioned my 3point likely 100-ish times during my mowing session.

Loader 4-way valve problem

Greetings everyone. I am new to the forum, so this is my first post. Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but my 4-way valve sounds like my bucket tilt circuit is deadheading (making that sort of screeching sound you here when you deadhead the bucket tilt after it has made its full...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I initially thought my solenoid had failed for the 3rd function, but this feature is not being used, and the problem still exists.

I appreciate any guidance or direction you can provide as a starting point. I was considering pulling every hose off the tractor, but I figured approaching this systematically would benefit me meaningfully.

Greatly appreciated,

Corey

View attachment 107852 View attachment 107853 0

I just noticed the plumbing in the picture of your hydraulic outlet block. That is unusual. There are 5 hoses where I would expect just 3. Where are the two bottom hoses with blue hose wrap going? Your third function is not hooked into the power beyond on the loader valve and does notvreturn to the hydraulic outlet. You must have some other hydraulic addon? Factory remotes perhaps?

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

I had a problem with my BX where the loader would raise very slowly. Boosting the RPM's made it slower. Turned out to be a bad hydraulic coupler for the down function that wasn't closing all the way which in turn would not let the loader go up! When I would disconnect my couplers the bad one would spew a stream of fluid. I swapped the bad coupler with one for the curl function to test and the loader would raise as it should. I purchased a new coupler and all is well!

 

[TheOldHokie]

I had a problem with my BX where the loader would raise very slowly. Boosting the RPM's made it slower. Turned out to be a bad hydraulic coupler for the down function that wasn't closing all the way which in turn would not let the loader go up! When I would disconnect my couplers the bad one would spew a stream of fluid. I swapped the bad coupler with one for the curl function to test and the loader would raise as it should. I purchased a new coupler and all is well!

Symptoms tell us a lot.

His loader raises and lowers fine when curl is active. That means BOTH lift cylinder couplers are connected and working. Scratch them off the list.

What is also noteworthy is that with curl active exhaust oil is exiting the loader valve via the tank port.

Whan curl is not active loader will not raise or lower.

Question:

What has changed with curl inactive?

Answer:

Exhaust oil is now exiting the loader valve via the power beyond not tank port

Conclusion:

Something in the downstream power beyond circuit is blocking the loader return oil flow.

Dan

 

[kubotafreak]

Check if your detent (longer cylindrical extension on bottom of loader valve pointed forward) on the loader valve has the bleed hole on the bottom. The ones that don't tend to have problems.
As others have said sounds like a valve is not centered. Just reconnect the grapple, and cycle the 3rd function a few times.

 

[coreyperez]

I just noticed the plumbing in the picture of your hydraulic outlet block. That is unusual. There are 5 hoses where I would expect just 3. Where are the two bottom hoses with blue hose wrap going? Your third function is not hooked into the power beyond on the loader valve and does notvreturn to the hydraulic outlet. You must have some other hydraulic addon? Factory remotes perhaps?

Dan

Dan,

I will see if I can try and find the instructions I received for the 3rd point (electric solenoid). The blue lines, one goes to the port under the seat and the other connects to that block under the floor.

I did some digging and found the email/attachment I received from Landpride to install this grapple (3rd point). I have (attempted) to attached it in this response.

In reading some of the posts regarding this issue, I wish I had known I could attach this to the loader valve. That would have been much cleaner.

It sounds like the bulk of the responses state I have a failed coupler. To that I would say, this occurred while there was no change in the equipment state. ie: The tractor had the mower attached and the grapple attached when this started occuring. The grapple wasn't 'creeping open/closed' (that I noticed), nor had I disconnected (or -reconnected) any of the QDs.

That stated, this is what I will start with. I'm thinking that the potential failure of the electric 3rd point would be the likely failure (althought when I push the button I see the lights illuminating indicating switched directions, but this does not mean it is actually working correctly).

Corey

 

[coreyperez]

Check if your detent (longer cylindrical extension on bottom of loader valve pointed forward) on the loader valve has the bleed hole on the bottom. The ones that don't tend to have problems.
As others have said sounds like a valve is not centered. Just reconnect the grapple, and cycle the 3rd function a few times.

I will still need to get out and reconnect the grapple, but when I started the tractor in the morning to move it, (yesterday) it still had the issue, but in the evening, the issue was improved. I didn't change anything aside from where it was parked.

Here is the picture of the two valves I believe you referenced. As 'crusty' as they are, I do not believe they have any movement in them.

Corey

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I will still need to get out and reconnect the grapple, but when I started the tractor in the morning to move it, (yesterday) it still had the issue, but in the evening, the issue was improved. I didn't change anything aside from where it was parked.

Here is the picture of the two valves I believe you referenced. As 'crusty' as they are, I do not believe they have any movement in them.

Corey

Those are the detent caps, you will get no movement in those.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan,

I will see if I can try and find the instructions I received for the 3rd point (electric solenoid). The blue lines, one goes to the port under the seat and the other connects to that block under the floor.

I did some digging and found the email/attachment I received from Landpride to install this grapple (3rd point). I have (attempted) to attached it in this response.

In reading some of the posts regarding this issue, I wish I had known I could attach this to the loader valve. That would have been much cleaner.

It sounds like the bulk of the responses state I have a failed coupler. To that I would say, this occurred while there was no change in the equipment state. ie: The tractor had the mower attached and the grapple attached when this started occuring. The grapple wasn't 'creeping open/closed' (that I noticed), nor had I disconnected (or -reconnected) any of the QDs.

That stated, this is what I will start with. I'm thinking that the potential failure of the electric 3rd point would be the likely failure (althought when I push the button I see the lights illuminating indicating switched directions, but this does not mean it is actually working correctly).

Corey

View attachment 107887 View attachment 107888 View attachment 107889 View attachment 107890 View attachment 107891

WTF!!!

The Land Pride tech/engineer that wrote those instructions was out of his/her head when they wrote them. That works but its not how Kubota, Landpride, WR Long, or anyone else does it now. Do you still have the OEM steel tube and fittings you removed? If so I suggest you put it back as it came and replumb the third function as is currently recommended - see picture below. You will only have 3 hoses not 5.

Your problem has resolved on its own - something in the power beyond loop (which includes the 3rd function valve) was stuck and has come unstuck. My guess is that something was the spool in the third function.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Dan,

I will see if I can try and find the instructions I received for the 3rd point (electric solenoid). The blue lines, one goes to the port under the seat and the other connects to that block under the floor.

I did some digging and found the email/attachment I received from Landpride to install this grapple (3rd point). I have (attempted) to attached it in this response.

In reading some of the posts regarding this issue, I wish I had known I could attach this to the loader valve. That would have been much cleaner.

It sounds like the bulk of the responses state I have a failed coupler. To that I would say, this occurred while there was no change in the equipment state. ie: The tractor had the mower attached and the grapple attached when this started occuring. The grapple wasn't 'creeping open/closed' (that I noticed), nor had I disconnected (or -reconnected) any of the QDs.

That stated, this is what I will start with. I'm thinking that the potential failure of the electric 3rd point would be the likely failure (althought when I push the button I see the lights illuminating indicating switched directions, but this does not mean it is actually working correctly).

Corey

View attachment 107887 View attachment 107888 View attachment 107889 View attachment 107890 View attachment 107891

The lines are no right!
What you have labeled as return is not return, it's PB to the three point, that powers the three point.
So it sounds like you have PB and tank on the third function valve swapped.

You have too many lines going too many places.
You need to have a complete loop from out of the block through the loader valve then on to the third function valve then back to the block.

The tank line from the loader and from the added third function valve can be teed together.
You have divided the loop and are splitting the hydraulic flow.

 

[kubotafreak]

The more complex setup is generally preferred for better mixed function. Most aftermarket setups are the simple, in series type of routing. Kubota seems to have slowed/stopped making the KUBOTA branded kit. I would guess it is for cost, simplicity of parts exchange, utilizing kubota-Landpride marked kits.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The lines are no right!
What you have labeled as return is not return, it's PB to the three point, that powers the three point.
So it sounds like you have PB and tank on the third function valve swapped.

You have too many lines going too many places.
You need to have a complete loop from out of the block through the loader valve then on to the third function valve then back to the block.

The tank line from the loader and from the added third function valve can be teed together.
You have divided the loop and are splitting the hydraulic flow.

He has not divided the loop and the lines are right. He has simply replaced the oem PB pipe with a hose loop through the 3rd function valve. Still in series but totally unnecessary modification and ugly as hell.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

He has not divided the loop. He has simply replaced the oem PB pipe with a hose loop through the 3rd function valve. Stull in series but totally unnecessary and ugly as hell.

Dan

If he has the PB and tank posts swapped as he has it labeled, he's splitting PB or just dumping it to tank.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If he has the PB and tank posts swapped as he has it labeled, he's splitting PB or just dumping it to tank.

His labels are wrong.. He disconnected power beyond tube under outlet block and under seat then removed the tube. He connected power beyond outlet on underside of block to P on 3rd function and T on third function to PB port underneath seat. OEM tube is replaced by new hose loop. Functionally the same as leaving tube in place and inserting valve at PB port on face of block.

None of this has anything to do with the loader problem that magically healed itself.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

He connected power beyond outlet on underside of block to P on 3rd function and T on third function to PB port underneath seat.

This is wrong, T needs to go to the face of the block and PB goes to the front of the three point.
The front of the three point cylinder is not a tank port.

The T port of of the Third function need to be Tee'd into the tank port off of the loader, or at the block.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is wrong, T needs to go to the face of the block and PB goes to the front of the three point.
The front of the three point cylinder is not a tank port.

The T port of of the Third function need to be Tee'd into the tank port off of the loader, or at the block.

This is not wrong. The third function valve does not have a PB and tank port. THE TANK PORT ON THE 3RD FUNCTION VALVE IS BEING USED FOR POWER BEYOND.

That is standrad practice and a perfectly acceptable usage of these D03 valves. It's how Kubota, Land Pride and WR Long all do it.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Ok looking over several pictures I think it might be a verbiage issue.
What they are calling T is not tank it's PB return.
The third function valve has 2 lines, In and out, not three lines in, out and tank.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok looking over several pictures I think it might be a verbiage issue.
What they are calling T is not tank it's PB return.
The third function valve has 2 lines, In and out, not three lines in, out and tank.

BINGO!! On a D03 valve the T port is BOTH power beyond and tank return. The T port is rated for 90% or so of max inlet pressure and can be used to power a downstream device.

Dan