L1801 blowing oil

[meanjean]

Tractor ran great yesterday and was parked in the garage. Started it this morning and heard a "clunk" which was followed by oil pouring out from behind the oil filter. Fart!

Here's what I've done/found out:
-Removed the oil pan and did NOT find any shrapnel.
-Removed the rocker cover gasket and all is well there.
-Removed the cylinder head and again, no unwanted parts. Put it up on jacks and was able to turn a rear tire while in gear. Pistons are traveling up and down as they should be.
-Removed the oil filter assembly cover and things appear fine. Both the relief assembly valve and safety valve appear to be working fine although I'm tempted to replace them for the $30 it may cost.
-Reinstalled the oil pan along with some oil and turned the motor over. Oil was pumping from one of the ports behind the assembly cover. This leads me to believe the oil pump is in good working order.
-There does not appear to be any liquid where it shouldn't be. IE: fuel mixed with oil, coolant mixed with oil.
-Pick up screen in oil pan was clear of debris.
-Oil filter did NOT have an extra gasket on behind it. No debris found in the oil filter.

So...

What the heck is going on?

I'd venture a guess that a bit of crap got past the filter and forced the relief safety valve/safety valve to fail and forced an oil back up.

Thanks in advance,

Jay D

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm thinking it's more likely a bad filter, that is where it was leaking right?

 

[meanjean]

It's pouring from just behind the filter at the seal.
Been using the same filter since this past winter and have not had a problem.
It's highly unlikely that the filter all of a sudden failed but not impossible.
Pressure built up but I'm not sure why.

Parts are ordered and I should have everything back together for Thursday evening. Going to roll it into the driveway for start up this time.

Any guesses on why the pressure built up?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

About the only things I can think of that would cause that would be a plugged oil filter, main oil galley plugged, or maybe a stuck or blocked oil pressure relief valve.
The oil pressure relief is before the filter and regulates the pressure to the whole system, I've never heard of one failing as they are a very simple setup, but anything is possible.
I'm thinking the filter either collapsed internally or failed in some other fashion, that would cause the internals to swell and then the seal lost it's seat.
If you still have the filter, cut it open and inspect it.

In any event you need to put a manual pressure gauge on it and monitor the pressure real close, if it's still high after repairs you will probably need to tear it down and do a complete rebuild as something has gotten into the oil galley system and plugged it up.

 

[meanjean]

Thanks very much for the reply.

I spoke with 2 Kubota dealers today, neither of whom had heard of this happening. I must be lucky!

Both the safety assembly valve and relief assembly valve appear to be in good working order.

I am hoping the issue is the oil filter. Im going to cut the bugger open and see if the internals are where they belong. Filter was last changed in the winter so maybe it's number was up?

The filter assembly cover (see picture) has always required more torque than I care to admit when cranking on the oil filter. Related perhaps?

 

[Daren Todd]

Thanks very much for the reply.

I spoke with 2 Kubota dealers today, neither of whom had heard of this happening. I must be lucky!

Both the safety assembly valve and relief assembly valve appear to be in good working order.

I am hoping the issue is the oil filter. Im going to cut the bugger open and see if the internals are where they belong. Filter was last changed in the winter so maybe it's number was up?

The filter assembly cover (see picture) has always required more torque than I care to admit when cranking on the oil filter. Related perhaps?

If you get it narrowed down and no blockage causing the filter to pop, but are still having trouble with the filter sealing, check the nipple on the filter base. Had a piece of equipment come through the shop recently that kept popping the filter gaskets, and you had to fight to get the filter to seal. The nipple on the filter base had gotten knocked out of square with the base causing the filter to screw on cockeyed. Apparently the mechanic servicing it at another location was using a wrench to tighten the filter, and then driving a screw driver through it to remove the filter, and ended up hitting the nipple.

 

[meanjean]

If you get it narrowed down and no blockage causing the filter to pop, but are still having trouble with the filter sealing, check the nipple on the filter base. Had a piece of equipment come through the shop recently that kept popping the filter gaskets, and you had to fight to get the filter to seal. The nipple on the filter base had gotten knocked out of square with the base causing the filter to screw on cockeyed. Apparently the mechanic servicing it at another location was using a wrench to tighten the filter, and then driving a screw driver through it to remove the filter, and ended up hitting the nipple.

I think you're on to something here.
I will be ordering a new oil filter assembly and piece everything back together.

Thanks for the reply,

Jay D

 

[ShaunRH]

It should be very hard to get that filter screw terminal to bend or get out of whack. You could test it with a small machinists square and also test the flatness of the seal seat while you are at it.

It could just be the filter seal giving way that made the 'clunk' sound or something like gunk in the pump that gave it a sudden surge of pressure, blowing the seal out. Either way, does it run right with a new filter? No leaks?

 

[meanjean]

Waiting on parts right now.
Will advise as soon as things are put back together.
I hate seeing my toy all taken apart!

 

[Daren Todd]

I think you're on to something here.
I will be ordering a new oil filter assembly and piece everything back together.

Thanks for the reply,

Jay D

Your welcome like wolfman said, keep a close eye on it with a manual pressure gauge. There may be an issue internally. I just brought it up about the filter base since you mentioned you were having issues getting the filter to seal.

 

[meanjean]

I will have to visit my neighbor in an effort to secure a pressure gauge.


I've now replaced the head gasket roughly 6 times now.
The problem I came across was a missing o-ring on the oil gallery.
I did install a new rad cap and noticed several leaks from the radiator.
I ran a tin of bars leak and re-installed the old rad cap.
I may have to check the rad for pressure.

 

[meanjean]

I'm going to take a better look at the oil filter when I get home.
Originally I looked checked it for loose pieces of metal.
Will look to see if the filter is collapsed.

Agree with you Vic regarding a new rad.
I'm going to remove it and bring it in to a local rad shop in an effort to have it rebuilt. Will replace outright if needed.

Thanks all for the responses.

Jay D

 

[ShaunRH]

Well now, hold yer horses...

If your radiator is clean on the outside and hasn't been cleaned on the inside you can get stoppage creating a heat up problem.

I hear a relatively cheap way to take out any gook inside is to flush with a good radiator flush, and then rinse out and fill with white vinegar and let sit overnight. This will take up any calcium or other mineral build up (not everyone uses distilled water or pre-mixed antifreeze) and should clear out all those channels. Backflush the radiator and check for leaks. If no leaks, you likely don't need a new radiator or repair. You're about $15 into repair and know for fairly certain the system is working correctly again.

It now should also be clean enough to remount and get back another decade of work.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I did install a new rad cap and noticed several leaks from the radiator.

If no leaks, you likely don't need a new radiator or repair.

ShaunRH,
Ummmm, He said it leaks, time to take it and get it fixed or replaced, no amount of home cleaning will fix a leaking radiator.

JayD,
Did you mean that you changed the head gasket out so many times, because it was leaking oil out of where it was missing the O-ring?

 

[meanjean]

The rad leaked a few years back when I changed to a new rad cap.
I then ran bars leak and went back to the old cap.
I believe it's only over heated once since then.
I was working it pretty hard on a hot day.
Hasn't leaked since.

I changed the head gasket all those times because of the missing o-ring.
See the picture for the offending oil gallery.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That what I thought you meant! I almost did the same thing when I rebuilt my first D750.
Missing that little O ring would cause some serious headaches!

 

[meanjean]

5 serious headaches and $200+ in gaskets.
Plus the oil changes, plus new coolant.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You didn't know OTT existed back then did you?

 

[ShaunRH]

ShaunRH,
Ummmm, He said it leaks, time to take it and get it fixed or replaced, no amount of home cleaning will fix a leaking radiator.

Well, I guess it pays to soak in every detail.. DOH!

Nevermind!

 

[Russell King]

I think you're on to something here.
I will be ordering a new oil filter assembly and piece everything back together.

Thanks for the reply,

Jay D

Looking at the picture of your filter base (which is not the best diagnosis tool!) the threads look fairly rough like it may have been slightly misthreaded in the past and then cleaned up.

Since you have it off, I would proceed with getting a new one (like I think you already are). If you can't get a new one, you may be able to get the threads cleaned up by a machine shop.