Kubota L4150 white smoke, no start

[AlexS]

Did an engine swap due to hole in the block. Replaced fuel lines and filters, rebuilt fuel pump and new lift pump. New injectors installed as well. Think I have the fuel air bled. All I am getting is white smoke coming out. I believe the glow plugs do not work. Will this fire up without glow plugs? Just ordered 5 new ones. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Been dumping lots of money into this project and feel I am missing something. Bleeding the air out of this for some reason takes forever

 

[Jim L.]

White smoke could be unburnt fuel which could be because of lack of glow plug preheat.

Or from lack of heat of compression by rings or something else not sealing.

Or coolant leaking into chamber.

Just general stuff, sorry not to be precise.

 

[D2Cat]

AlexS, welcome to the forum.

When you've had the fuel lines, filter, etc opened up it takes longer than one thinks it should to get all the air out.

Not sure if your engine is direct injection or not, but either way it should start with out working glow plugs. Have your throttle on full, and use the starter in about 20 second intervals and then rest for 20-30 seconds before trying again to keep the starter from overheating. Have you loosened the fuel lines at the injectors to get the air out there?

 

[AlexS]

None of the glow plugs work and I am fairly certain all glow plugs are shot. Have ordered new glow plugs from Kubota. Hoping that helps. Yes injector lines have been loosened a few times. So close to starting now. Appreciate the replies

 

[hope to float]

My uncle used to put boiling water into the radiator to make things easier to start. I've seen people holding a roll of burning paper to the air intake too. I don't know how safe or reliable these things are but the machines usually started.

 

[D2Cat]

You could use a blow dryer or heat gun to heat up the intake manifold to help starting.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Have you done a compression test?

Did you rebuilt the injection pump or have it done?

Were the injectors Kubota OEM or aftermarket?

 

[AlexS]

Have you done a compression test?

Did you rebuilt the injection pump or have it done?

Were the injectors Kubota OEM or aftermarket?

Havent done compression test
Injection pump was rebuilt
Not sure if injectors were OEM or aftermarket. Ordered online

 

[AlexS]

In addition, I pulled the injectors today and it looked like only 2 cylinders were firing. Im thinking either I didnt bleed the other 3 injectors all the way or compression issues?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Havent done compression test
Injection pump was rebuilt
Not sure if injectors were OEM or aftermarket. Ordered online

If the injectors didn't come in a Kubota sealed package most likely not Kubota OEM, and there was and is a rash of cheap aftermarket injectors running around that don't work right, and will cause your very issue as they over or under fuel.

I only deal with Oregon Fuel injection for injectors, they are top notch!

 

[AlexS]

If the injectors didn't come in a Kubota sealed package most likely not Kubota OEM, and there was and is a rash of cheap aftermarket injectors running around that don't work right, and will cause your very issue as they over or under fuel.

I only deal with Oregon Fuel injection for injectors, they are top notch!

I noticed the front two cylinders are compressing and burning fuel. I swapped the 2nd from the front injector with the 3rd one hoping the problem would follow the injector. It did not. Still firing on front two cylinders and not the rear 3. Think I have air in the back 3 lines or possible it didnt get the fuel timed correctly. Had a rookie mechanic helping. And I am fairly new to diesels. I appreciate your advise. Thank you

 

[AlexS]

If the injectors didn't come in a Kubota sealed package most likely not Kubota OEM, and there was and is a rash of cheap aftermarket injectors running around that don't work right, and will cause your very issue as they over or under fuel.

I only deal with Oregon Fuel injection for injectors, they are top notch!

Ok, have this problem narrowed down and hoping for some help. When I time the fuel injection pump, it doesnt line up with where it should on the flywheel. I am about 2 cylinders away from my F1 mark. Its showing f3. Got new plugs so thought I would open injector pump and roll engine over one revolution. Reinstalled and I am close to engine cranking over now. So far off from the timing mark though, that I am unsure of how to get it close. The shims only move the flywheel a degree or 2 and we are way out. Any suggestions please and thank you.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

forget about the timing marks they don't mean anything for setting up the injection pump.
You are correct the shims only change it a few degrees, and the shims only need to be changed if you did work to the block, like mill it, not anything to do with the injection pump, even with a pump rebuild it doesn't change the factory shims.
Do not use any sealer on the shims as the sealer adds thickness and will throw it off even more.

The only way to change timing is to pull the front gear case cover off and change the gears, have you done that?
If you haven't pulled the gear case then it can't be out of time, it also wouldn't fire on just 2 cylinders if it was out of time.

Pull the injection lines off of the injection pump set the throttle to high and crank, you should be getting fountains out of all five delivery valves to the same height, if your not you have an injection pump problem.

Have you adjusted the valves?
Have you done a compression test?

That's a direct injected engine, it will start and run without glow plug.
The injectors are stanadyne pencil injectors, very easy to bleed.

 

[AlexS]

forget about the timing marks they don't mean anything for setting up the injection pump.
You are correct the shims only change it a few degrees, and the shims only need to be changed if you did work to the block, like mill it, not anything to do with the injection pump, even with a pump rebuild it doesn't change the factory shims.
Do not use any sealer on the shims as the sealer adds thickness and will throw it off even more.

The only way to change timing is to pull the front gear case cover off and change the gears, have you done that?
If you haven't pulled the gear case then it can't be out of time, it also wouldn't fire on just 2 cylinders if it was out of time.

Pull the injection lines off of the injection pump set the throttle to high and crank, you should be getting fountains out of all five delivery valves to the same height, if your not you have an injection pump problem.

Have you adjusted the valves?
Have you done a compression test?

That's a direct injected engine, it will start and run without glow plug.
The injectors are stanadyne pencil injectors, very easy to bleed.

Wolfman, I appreciate all your help. Was able to get it timed on the FI3 mark thinking all the marks were equally distanced on the flywheel. Timing is on. Got it running on its own for about 10 seconds last night. Thinking it needs to be bled more at the injectors. I dont have a way to pump fuel(except for the tractor) so bleeding injector lines has been a slow process. My understanding from other folks is the bosch pumps take a long time to bleed. I agree. The more I bleed, the better it sounds. Keep having to let the starter cool. Going back at it this morning. Btw, dont have a compression tester(dont think its a compression issue now) and the pump was just rebuilt with motor swap($1200).

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Wolfman, I appreciate all your help. Was able to get it timed on the FI3 mark thinking all the marks were equally distanced on the flywheel. Timing is on. Got it running on its own for about 10 seconds last night. Thinking it needs to be bled more at the injectors. I dont have a way to pump fuel(except for the tractor) so bleeding injector lines has been a slow process. My understanding from other folks is the bosch pumps take a long time to bleed. I agree. The more I bleed, the better it sounds. Keep having to let the starter cool. Going back at it this morning. Btw, dont have a compression tester(dont think its a compression issue now) and the pump was just rebuilt with motor swap($1200).

If you had it running for ten seconds, it should be bled all the way.

When it was running was it stumbling or smoking?

 

[AlexS]

If you had it running for ten seconds, it should be bled all the way.

When it was running was it stumbling or smoking?

It sounded good when it took off. Thats whats confusing. Ive bled the lines 3 times today again and cant get it to turn over again. Seems like something simple in the equation is missing?

 

[AlexS]

Also, still seems like the 3 cylinders close to the steering wheel make no sound difference when bleeding like the front two cylinders do when bleeding. Are these pumps that hard to bleed?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Why don't you do what I said, it would answer a lot.

"Pull the injection lines off of the injection pump set the throttle to high and crank, you should be getting fountains out of all five delivery valves to the same height, if your not you have an injection pump problem or a fuel feed issue."

Gravity feed the injection pump with a line and a bottle from above the pump.

If you still don't get fuel out of all five delivery valves to the same height, you have a bad pump.

If it does put out the same amount of fuel out of all 5 of the delivery valves, then take one injection line off to the side of the engine and attach each injector one at a time, first loose fit, crank till fuel, then tighten, put a piece of cardboard under the injector to look at the pattern.

 

[AlexS]

Why don't you do what I said, it would answer a lot.

"Pull the injection lines off of the injection pump set the throttle to high and crank, you should be getting fountains out of all five delivery valves to the same height, if your not you have an injection pump problem or a fuel feed issue."

Gravity feed the injection pump with a line and a bottle from above the pump.

If you still don't get fuel out of all five delivery valves to the same height, you have a bad pump.

If it does put out the same amount of fuel out of all 5 of the delivery valves, then take one injection line off to the side of the engine and attach each injector one at a time, first loose fit, crank till fuel, then tighten, put a piece of cardboard under the injector to look at the pattern.

Not sure what Im not doing that you told me to. Fuel shoots up about 3-4 ft from injectors. Update. I started it again today and it ran for another 10-15 seconds, then shut off. There is no throttle. Tried throttling up and nothing. So guessing now, this problem is related to this issue I found tonight. Thoughts?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The no throttle response would mean that either the injection pump is not installed right, not engaging the governor and throttle linkage or again the pump is bad.