Kubota L175 PTO stops under load...

[wyndsurfr]

Hey folks, newbie here but not a newbie to working on machines haha... I have some questions and REALLY hope I can get a little help...

I did a dumb thing and put a tiller behind my little l175... it's my lawn mower basically and I have no excuse for why I did it other than I wanted to try it... well, I certainly broke something... Since then every so often the PTO woud stop spinning, I could pop the clutch a few times and it'll start, but when it gets under a heavy load again (just mowing grass) it'll stop spinning again...

I've already split the tractor once for this, it does have an internal over-run clutch, I took the over-run clutch apart and it really didn't look bad although I have nothing to compare it to either... The thing has a weird little one way bearing in it much like a torque converter one way bearing, it has steel on steel friction to operate the PTO... I did find some metal dust inside the clutch unit, so it definitely is worn, but no idea if it is worn enough to do this... so... I ordered a coupler (the "clutch" is ridiculous prices and just not affordable), it's the coupler that connects the drive to the rear differential, but the shafts are the same size and number of splines, so I can make it work even if I have to have it lengthened and retempered.. anyhow, on to why I'm here...

Everything points to this one way clutch being bad, but mulling it over in my head these last few days waiting on the part, I am wondering how the gears for the PTO shaft in the transmission are put onto the shaft and is it possible that I spun a gear on the shaft?

I just got the little coupler today, and just started draining the tractor to split it again, if I don't get any answers my only option is to have this coupler shaft made to work (it might be the right length now, only way to tell is to measure the "clutch" and see if they're the same length... but I'd really hate to spend money on fabrication and re-tempering when it is actually the PTO gears spinning on the shaft in the transmission...


thanks!

 

[wyndsurfr]

quite possibly got it solved with that part....

sooo, here is the fix for anyone else that happens into this issue like I did....

Tractor is super easy to split, this is the second time for me and I split it, put the new part in and put it back together in about an hour... not bad

there is a coupler that couples the drive shaft together where the rear end separates from the tractor transmission... It kinda looks like a deep well socket but accepts both male ends for the drive shaft, that part will fit exactly with zero modification in place of the internal PTO over-run clutch... Obviously you will not have a PTO over-run clutch anymore, but they sell those for external addons and they aren't nearly as expensive as a new internal one ($1,200 IF you can find one that is a big IF)... Kubota has stopped selling parts for this system so don't waste your time calling kubota parts dealers, it's either get one from a junk yard and take a chance or do what I did and fix it for a 30 dollar part.

I read somewhere that someone welded their over-run clutch up and that would be a basically free fix... BUT!!! this part is hardened steel and my bet is whoever did that has experienced failures in their welds... welding hardened steel is like welding cast iron, very touchy and you are probably just ruining the thing by trying...

anyhow, I hope this helps someone sometime! If your PTO is "slipping" then just order another one of those couplers (might have to order it from a salvage place) split the tractor and put that in place of your over-run clutch and button her up again... You can see the time stamps of my posts here from the previous one how long it took me to split the tractor, put the part in, close it up and go try it out...

BTW, splitting that case can be a bit of a pain, I saw where some folks were really fighting with it... here is my trick, support the tractor with 2 floor jacks, WEDGE the front end so it won't roll side to side with you, remove the few things that hold it together, bolts, hydraulic lines, muffler support, floor board to fender bolts and brake actuating rods. Then take an old (or new) wood chisel, not an automotive 'coal' chisel, but a one sided wedge type chisel for wood and tap it in to where the case splits, if you're lucky it won't even damage the seal and you can just smear some permatex ultra-black on it and bolt her up again... I had to get a fairly large hammer and really whack that wood chisel but it split the cases very well with just a little bit of cosmetic damage. Once it starts, just work the chisel in and pry it out a little at a time, then the rear end of the tractor should just roll right away from the front

 

[wyndsurfr]

oh, and DO NOT DO WHAT I DID!!!! These little machines are fantastic for some types of work, but putting a rototiller behind one in hard ground absolutely destroyed it, I got VERY lucky that my machine isn't ruined... I love my little kubota and I bought a big tractor for big tractor work, the little kubota gets used almost every day to keep the grass down on the farm and I would have been lost without it... As nice and strong as they are, don't be tempted to overwork it, you'll be sad like I was :-(

 

[MagKarl]

Cool, glad to hear you came up with a fix that works for you. Can you post any pics of the overrunning unit? Is it possible to separate that unit and just replace the one way bearing?

 

[wyndsurfr]

I have the old over-running unit out and on a table in my shop, I'll get a pic tomorrow... yes, you most certainly COULD replace that bearing, in fact it is part number 34209-21860

but.... no kubota dealer in north america has one and it is a discontinued part... booo.... doing a quick google search turns up several websites that claim to have one in stock, but if you actually call them, you find out that they do NOT have one in stock :-(

the little 'bearing' is only 40 bucks... or would be if it were available... Kubota calls the little sprag bearing a "coupler" btw...

anyhow, I hope someone is helped by this post in the future... and, for what it's worth, I have lots of friends in other countries, I'm waiting to hear back from service department vic on a question of whether or not the part numbers would be the same in foreign countries, if they are I'm going to have my friends look, I have folks waiting to check for me in the phillippines, japan, australia and the UK... If I can find some, I might buy a bunch of them and put them up for sale to folks who like me, just wouldn't want to imagine life without their little orange beast

 

[MagKarl]

Somebody like Torrington or Timken, etc. has to make the bearing, not Kubota. Check for a part number on the bearing if you can see it. If nothing else, you should be able to match one up if you can mic the shaft and bore. I have a little experience with this type though, and if the shaft gets boogered up, it's pretty much junk unless you get it built back up and reground.

 

[jhodge]

NTN and Koyo make pretty much every bearing I saw when I had my L1500DT apart. Mine did not have the internal clutch between the transmission and diff cases, but just two couplings. I'm not sure what that bearing measures out to, but I did notice the counter shafts are a standard size (1").

I wish I would have seen this post before. As I mentioned in another post, when I first started splitting, the service manual gave me the impression these shafts did not break at the transmission section (it gave steps to remove the rear axles and pull out the diff) so I proceeded to remove the hydraulic cover, etc. before I realized the manual had to be wrong.

Joel

 

[gpreuss]

Thank you for a lot of good information! I don't believe my old L185 had an over-running clutch; the mower was content to drive the tractor. I did a fair amount of tilling with it however, often digging down into granite. Never had a problem! Just make sure you have a friction clutch or shear pin in the drive line.

 

[Bigboy]

I have a l175 I'm trying to fix the pto won't disengage the pto just spins and will not work unless hi or lo is engaged. On transmission and tractor will not move unless pto is engaged with pto lever

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I have a l175 I'm trying to fix the pto won't disengage the pto just spins and will not work unless hi or lo is engaged. On transmission and tractor will not move unless pto is engaged with pto lever

You have one messed up transmission!
Sounds like some thing has seriously come unglued, I would love to see pictures!

 

[Orange Tractors]

Bigboy, sounds to me like something is wrong with your shifters or shift forks.

I would start by taking the shifters off and taking a look at the forks and sliding gears in the transmission. Might be a very expensive fix, or it might be a simple adjustment.

Good Luck,

Robert