Kubota Electric Tractor Survey

[SDT]

Perhaps I said it poorly... what I intended to suggest is that approximately 30% of the planet gets usable sunlight at any one time. (assuming no clouds). Do not forget that solar panel efficency falls off quickly as the light moves away from 90 degrees of the panels.


Also remember that "energy required" means replacing ALL of our energy-requirements.... not just current electric usage. If we were to include EVERY petroleum user, steel-smelting, ocean-shipping...etc , solar falls short.

This comes around to the original discussion of electric heavy equipment. I do not forsee any replacement for diesel-powered earth-moving equipment.

Agreed.

SDT

 

[skeets]

Ban coal mining,, and let the bastards freeze inthe dark

 

[ctfjr]

Perhaps I said it poorly... what I intended to suggest is that approximately 30% of the planet gets usable sunlight at any one time. (assuming no clouds). Do not forget that solar panel efficency falls off quickly as the light moves away from 90 degrees of the panels.
. . .

I thought that was true also BruceP but your post got me searching to see exactly what the 'falloff' is when the angle of the sun is something less than 90 degrees to the panel. I found this SITE that is addressing the different tilt angles of panels, from 0 (flat on the roof) to 90 (mounted to a vertical wall). They provide data for 2 locations. Phoenix and Portland. Even 10 or 20 degrees doesn't seem to be a deal killer

 

[sheepfarmer]

They make ground mount panels whose angle relative to the sun can be adjusted seasonally. Some look kind of like flowers, same principle.

 

[Geezer3d]

They make ground mount panels whose angle relative to the sun can be adjusted seasonally. Some look kind of like flowers, same principle.

Even better, some of the early designs included motors and sensors so the panels could rotate on their mount and follow the sun at the most effective angle. I suppose the added complexity and maintenence of moving parts made them less desirable.

 

[NHSleddog]

.....
Or. . . you can be just a naysayer and be part of the problem. No one is twisting your arm.

To me, making stuff up, like we can power the whole world from a hundred square miles of solar panels in the desert is being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

How about this idea? Make everyone around the world turn off their air conditioners. It will drop the earths temp within a decade. At least this idea will work. Save power by the gigawatt and reduce heat output. - Who's going first?

 

[Jchonline]

To me, making stuff up, like we can power the whole world from a hundred square miles of solar panels in the desert is being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

How about this idea? Make everyone around the world turn off their air conditioners. It will drop the earths temp within a decade. At least this idea will work. Save power by the gigawatt and reduce heat output. - Who's going first?

The 100 sq miles comment isn't practical I understand that. However the point being just that much solar on the ground can generate the power needed. The challenge with solar isn't generating when the sun is out...its what to do when it isn't.

I don't have an air conditioner.....so Ill go first. You next.

 

[BruceP]

I thought that was true also BruceP but your post got me searching to see exactly what the 'falloff' is when the angle of the sun is something less than 90 degrees to the panel.

I believe you misinterpreted the table you posted.
I read the table as the panels mounted based on LEVEL (bubble in liquid)... not based on angle to the sun. The table does reveal a 'rolloff' of power generation based on angle to sun.

It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to have a stationary panel 90 degrees to the sun more than a few minutes a day. There are only a handfull of days a year which a stationary panel can be optimized to the sun.

There is a company here in Vermont (NRG) who design/sell rotators. A set of panels is mounted on a gimbal at the top of a pole. (each pole is ~ 10ft high) Complicated electronics are used to manipulate the panels to be close to 90 degrees to the sun. (There is even a 'safety mode' which detects windspeed and moves the panels to level with the ground which minimizes wind loads)

 

[Deleted member 47704]

I believe you misinterpreted the table you posted.
I read the table as the panels mounted based on LEVEL (bubble in liquid)... not based on angle to the sun. The table does reveal a 'rolloff' of power generation based on angle to sun.

It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to have a stationary panel 90 degrees to the sun more than a few minutes a day. There are only a handfull of days a year which a stationary panel can be optimized to the sun.

There is a company here in Vermont (NRG) who design/sell rotators. A set of panels is mounted on a gimbal at the top of a pole. (each pole is ~ 10ft high) Complicated electronics are used to manipulate the panels to be close to 90 degrees to the sun. (There is even a 'safety mode' which detects windspeed and moves the panels to level with the ground which minimizes wind loads)

The electronics aren't complicated.My electronics company worked on tracking its fairly basic. The big problem with these systems is keeping it clean.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: How about this idea? Make everyone around the world turn off their air conditioners

Ontario Hydro tried that, well a version, few years back. Free special tstats, that THEY could setback when demand was too high for power. Actually worked well ,too well since demand went down, they jacked up the cost per electron..... Tstat was a std Honeywell unit with a plugin 'daughterboard' for remote setback ability.

 

[BruceP]

Free special tstats, that THEY could setback when demand was too high for power.

Our power company, offers discount if you let them add a remote-control cutout on water-heater. During periods of high demand, they can turn off your hot water heater.

We never noticed any difference with our hot water.... just a lower electric bill.

 

[SDT]

Our power company, offers discount if you let them add a remote-control cutout on water-heater. During periods of high demand, they can turn off your hot water heater.

We never noticed any difference with our hot water.... just a lower electric bill.

How much lower?

SDT

 

[Deleted member 47704]

How much lower?

SDT

We had a timer on our hot water heater, cut the bill by 40 bucks a month. This coming year its getting switched to on demand heater.

 

[top gnome]

+ 1 for solar panels and electric tractors. No power bill april -october

 

[BruceP]

This coming year its getting switched to on demand heater.

Beware: The "on demand" hot water units are kinda maintenance-intensive. The internal fins tend to collect crusty build-up (like a teapot over time). If not 'acid washed' on a regular basis, the efficiency goes to cr@p.

For me, after I did a lot of research, I ended up with a 'normal' hot water heater. The cost over time (initial price, acid-washing,...etc) did not save enough to justify.

I guess in the end, it depends on how much dissolved minerals are in your water supply.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Yes, 'tankless' heaters are EXPENSIVE to buy, run, maintain and replace. Most, generally NOT recommended for 'hard' water or well water. Hard water plugs them up, well water is dang COLD compared to city water, costs more to heat. Unless the unit was installed with 'quickconnects', it's real costly to clean them(every 3 years minimum).
Over the past 35 years, I started with electric, rented gas, bought gas, now back to rented gas...$20 a month. Got a new unit,installed for free, last year.

 

[BruceP]

Over the past 35 years, I started with electric, rented gas, bought gas, now back to rented gas...$20 a month. Got a new unit,installed for free, last year.

This is the reason I ended up 'renting' my hot water tank too.... Anytime there is ANY issue with all I have to do is make a phone call.

They show up usually on that same day and install a BRAND NEW tank. They only rent HIGH-END, quality hot water heaters.

Being an engineer, I 'did the math' .... sure I could buy a cheep hot-water heater at Home-Depot, drag it home, lug it into my basement, sweat in new plumbing....etc... then I would have to PAY to get rid of the old tank too.

For me, it is WELL worth the few dollars a month for tank rental which includes, same-day replacement when I have any issues. (My basement has dirt floor so the moisture corrodes the hot-water heater... NOT MY PROBLEM!!)

 

[SDT]

We had a timer on our hot water heater, cut the bill by 40 bucks a month. This coming year its getting switched to on demand heater.

Interresting.

My electricity bill runs $70-$90/Mo, winter/summer.

Don't think I would save anywhere near $40/Mo.

SDT

 

[Gb540]

If I had to choose between an electric and a current emissions diesel, features and cost being otherwise the same, I'd give the electric a close look. Esp. if its a utility machine that doesn't venture far from the buildings.

Franky I don't care if it runs off elections or cetane or dandelions, it needs to be RELIABLE and not bankrupt me in downtime and maintenance.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Interresting.

My electricity bill runs $70-$90/Mo, winter/summer.

Don't think I would save anywhere near $40/Mo.

SDT

My bill runs between 250 and 300/month.