Kubota Electric Tractor Survey

[jyoutz]

As I noted in my previous post (#66), it is very probable that the power company is buying his excess power at a highly inflated (possibly several times market price) rate - such are the incentives/mandates. So, the rate payers are subsidizing your neighbor's system. Many countries, like Germany, and many states in the US have or have had such a rigged system. In some places they have started to phase them out due to costs (high price electricity for customers), and the growth of solar installations have decreased significantly.

Germany is one of the best examples of what not to do. After massive electricity rate increases and unreliable power, they have begun firing up coal generation stations.

We are on a rural electric cooperative. All I know is our electric rates are cheaper than the for profit urban power companies in my state.

 

[Elliott in GA]

We are on a rural electric cooperative. All I know is our electric rates are cheaper than the for profit urban power companies in my state.

Your EMC buys all or most of its power from the big/urban power companies (the grid) - unless it is a very rare EMC. EMCs are more like discount cell phone service resellers (use the networks operated by the big 3) than actual power companies in terms of generation. The EMCs typically only build/maintain the infrastructure within their service area.

I can buy my natural gas from 3 or 4 companies at different rates, but it all comes from the same source (Atlanta Gas Light) via the same pipes.

 

[jyoutz]

Your EMC buys all or most of its power from the big/urban power companies (the grid) - unless it is a very rare EMC. EMCs are more like discount cell phone service resellers (use the networks operated by the big 3) than actual power companies in terms of generation. The EMCs typically only build/maintain the infrastructure within their service area.

I can buy my natural gas from 3 or 4 companies at different rates, but it all comes from the same source (Atlanta Gas Light) via the same pipes.

I’m sure that you are correct, but our cooperative is also a co-owner (along with quite a few other rural cooperatives) of a natural gas power plant, as well as a few solar and wind farms. I’m sure that you are correct in that they also buy from some of the larger for profit companies.

 

[greg86z28]

I think the average rate for kWh is in the low to mid teens for the USA.

I think fewer utilities offer these “sweet” buyback deals for electricity you sell back (where they are buying back at a rate higher than you pay). That used to be the case a long time ago but as PV has increased in adoption the utility no longer sees as much value in that consumer produced kWh. Typically when you had advantageous rates like that PV is a no brainer to add. In the current market where you only make the same rate you buy at, PV has a 20 year payback usually (here in Wisconsin).

One likely need a future of significant electrification is significant adoption of on site PV production paired with on-site batteries (sort of like the Tesla home battery).

 

[Elliott in GA]

The vast majority of electricity for Georgia is from - you guessed it , Georgia Power. The rate is approximately: Summer (June - September) over 1000 kWh = 9.8 cents per and Winter over 1000 kWh = 4.7 cents. There are service charges and etc., but you have too pay them if you are hooked to the grid regardless of usage.

Residential Service

www.georgiapower.com

I do not think that you will ever get your money back from a solar system in Georgia.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

be REAL careful and READ the ENTIRE contract for any 3rd party 'reseller' of hydro or gas, BEFORE signing !. The 'low' rate is for ONLY the electrons NOT the transportation, storing, lineloss, paperwork, etc. ! Also with some, you're not just a customer, you're a 'shareholder' so if(when) the company goes bellyup YOU can and will be held responsible for any and all debts of the reseller.

The original microFIT program here in Ontario was buying PV electrons for 80c/kW, reselling at 10C/kW. Had several companies come out,talk, measure,etc. I should clear $1000 a month THEN the hammer came down...I ,personally, didn't own the property(my TDI.INC did),so I didn't qualify ! Now if I'd been 'native', no problem, could have 3 systems on the same building !!

If you do go solar with batteries, build a separate building for the system to house the batteries ! Aside from the outgassing from the batteries,if old style, there is the very real possiblity of fire with new style batteries(check out the Telsa meltdown..)

 

[Jchonline]

re: 100 sq miles of solar panels could power the entire US if the Sun is out.

hmm, love to see where that was calculated....
curious, I asked google...
seems in the usa, a person uses 12.1KW a day, typical solar panel(new,sunny,etc) makes 10 watts/sq ft.
so each person needs 1200 sqft of solar, 330 million , means 396,000,000,000 sqft which is about 14,200 square miles
BTW solar panels loss their conversion abilityas they get older and NOT recyclable.

Let me do some math here…

New panels these days are 400+w/panel. 80x40 in dimension so 3200 sq in or 22 sq ft. Thats 18w/sq ft. You generate that every HOUR depending on solar insolation, not over a day.

Lets say 5 hours of that Sun so we would get 18x5 or 90w/sq ft. At 12KW a day you need 133 sqft per person.
With a 4kW array (10 panels) you can make 12KW in 3 hours (perfect, ideal conditions).

You also arent considering the Earth’s rotation. People on 1 side of the US wont have Sun at the same time as those on the other side, and they are 3hours apart meaning 5pm on East coast is still 2pm on West. 0800 on East is 0500 on West (folks still asleep).

The comment was made by Elon Musk awhile back and it stuck in my head. Here is an article about it. https://www.inverse.com/article/34239-how-many-solar-panels-to-power-the-usa. Pick it apart if you can.

Solar panels are also recyclable, sorry but you need to do some more research. I am not sure it is cost effective yet, but it will mature….as there is going to be a huge market for it in the coming decades.

Solar Panel Recycling: How Does It Work?

As solar panels reach the end of their lifetime, it is important to understand the effects of solar panel waste, and the recycling process.

news.energysage.com

Also just to mention my house is off grid, so I live off of a solar system (batteries, generator used maybe 20 hr/year).

 

[Jchonline]

If you do go solar with batteries, build a separate building for the system to house the batteries ! Aside from the outgassing from the batteries,if old style, there is the very real possiblity of fire with new style batteries(check out the Telsa meltdown..)

Modern lithium batteries used in homes should be LFP, or Lithium Iron Phosphate. There is almost no possibility of fires with them. The are not cobalt based like older Li tech, and even Tesla vehicles are switching to LFP.

 

[DDCD]

I’m sure that you are correct, but our cooperative is also a co-owner (along with quite a few other rural cooperatives) of a natural gas power plant, as well as a few solar and wind farms. I’m sure that you are correct in that they also buy from some of the larger for profit companies.

He's not correct though. Power generation even for the big companies comes from many different sources and alot of it is not their own (Texas).

My coop is part of a larger group that has plants that only supply coops.

My electric is about 6 cents in the winter and 8 in the summer per kWh. Long solar payoff for me.

 

[lynnmor]

In my area, another 600 acres of farm land bites the dust. Wasted

 

[Elliott in GA]

Just for the record - EMCs across the US generate less than half of the electricity they sell. They generate 5% of US electricity, but they sell 12% of US electricity. They only produce approximately 40% of what they sell. Obviously, it varies widely EMC to EMC, with most producing little of what they sell.

Electric Co-op Facts & Figures

This fact sheet provides an overview of America’s electric cooperative network.

www.electric.coop

 

[Freeheeler]

Every bit of energy on earth, no matter what type you want to talk about, comes from the sun, a giant nuclear reactor. I wouldn't be surprised if in some variation of the future, most of earths electricity gets supplied by nuclear reactors, with the waste products getting put on rocket aimed back at the sun. We won't be concerned about fuel sources, we'll be concentrating on sources for water and oxygen. In my lifetime, I'll just stick with my diesel tractor

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: You also arent considering the Earth’s rotation. People on 1 side of the US wont have Sun at the same time as those on the other side, and they are 3hours apart meaning 5pm on East coast is still 2pm on West. 0800 on East is 0500 on West (folks still asleep).

not too sure how that factors into the solar power 'equation', so please explain. If it's in reference to the 'demand' placed upon the grid, most people have to do laundry,as well as recharge their EVs , 'off peak' as they're normally not around during the '9 to 5' slot that does generate power.

It is not econonical to recycle solar panels, same as windmill blades.. they cost more to recycle than make new ones. The panels all 'age', reducing power output over time, and try getting 'halflife' info from the makers.

It's not just the batteries that can cause fires, there's a lot of 'tech' in the controllers,inverters, etc. that can fail. Shorted wiring or excessive current can and does burn the toxic insulation, THAT can be a serious health hazard.Yes, the equipment is generally reliable but NOT 100% failsafe.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Bob can you explain to us in detail why Chernobyl failed, why Fukushima failed.

While you are at it can you remind us how many civilians died as a result of radiation from Fukushima. Let’s not forget to mention the Tsunami itself with 40 foot waves that caused it killed 19,500 people.

Now lets jump over to coal. Can you tell us how many people die as a result of coal power plants per year. You can leave out the pollution based deaths…just do material gathering and plant operation.

We will run out of fossil fuels in the next Century or 2. Why would we not just try and solve the problem now?

I'm not buying into the socialist wet dream with electric cars etc. or their scare tactics.

Coal employed thousand of people.With scrubbers the emissions are manageable. Coal is inexpensive.

Scrubber myths and realities

Don`t let common misperceptions about flue gas desulfurization systems bias a realistic appraisal of this capable control technology

www.power-eng.com

 

[lynnmor]

I'm not buying into the socialist wet dream with electric cars etc. or their scare tactics.

Coal employed thousand of people.With scrubbers the emissions are manageable. Coal is inexpensive.

Scrubber myths and realities

Don`t let common misperceptions about flue gas desulfurization systems bias a realistic appraisal of this capable control technology

www.power-eng.com

If we can burn municipal waste to generate electricity, then coal can't be too bad. God knows what is in municipal waste, but it is a politically correct idea.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Every bit of energy on earth, no matter what type you want to talk about, comes from the sun, a giant nuclear reactor. I wouldn't be surprised if in some variation of the future, most of earths electricity gets supplied by nuclear reactors, with the waste products getting put on rocket aimed back at the sun. We won't be concerned about fuel sources, we'll be concentrating on sources for water and oxygen. In my lifetime, I'll just stick with my diesel tractor

Bio-diesel is a renewable.

The millennial and Gen Z crowds are the loudest ones screaming about clean energy, but you don't see them doing anything. They just play with their xbox in their moms basement and try to get freebies from the government.
The real problem is the population growth is out of control.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Maybe we should burn Soylent Green ?

 

[Jchonline]

The real problem is the population growth is out of control.

Not in the US. We are headed in the wrong direction.

 

[Jchonline]

I'm not buying into the socialist wet dream with electric cars etc. or their scare tactics.

Coal employed thousand of people.With scrubbers the emissions are manageable. Coal is inexpensive.

Scrubber myths and realities

Don`t let common misperceptions about flue gas desulfurization systems bias a realistic appraisal of this capable control technology

www.power-eng.com

Your link is for SO2 scrubbing, not CO2. Per your article SO2 scrubbers increase CO2 emissions by a small amount.
While it looks like SO2 scrubbing has been well accepted, C02 has a much smaller percentage of actual use (probably incredibly expensive to implement). CO2 IS the GHG of concern.

Power Plant Emission Trends | US EPA

This page details power plant emission trends from coal-fired power plants over time, comparing those emissions with electricity generation. Maps illustrate the locations where the facilities with the highest emissions.

www.epa.gov

I am still waiting for a real explanation of your comments on nuclear power. I would appreciate you keeping the comments/discussion apolitical. For the record EVs have no real use case for where or how I live, so I will never buy one.

 

[BruceP]

Back in the early 1970s, our neighbor had an electric riding lawnmower. I was too young to pay attention to exactly what brand it was... but from my research, it was most likely GE elec-trak

Batteries Not Included: 1970s GE Elec-Trak E12

Alrighty then, here's something you didn't expect to see here! Or, maybe you did since it's from me. This is a 1970s GE Elec-Trak E12 battery-powered garden tractor and it's in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It's on Craigslist with an asking price of $425. And, just like the old commercials that you used...

barnfinds.com

It was run from standard car batteries (flooded lead acid). These were 1/2 acre lots with house in the middle with driveway....so not a whole lot of mowing.