Knocking and smoking out intake on steep slope?

MagKarl

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L245DT
Aug 2, 2010
663
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Olympia, WA
I had a very odd occurrence yesterday while digging a hole for a new septic tank. I dug a steep ramp down one side so I could back down to dig with the backhoe, then turn around and drive down and get a scoop, then back out with a FEL bucket of dirt/rock.

Late in the job, the hole was about 6 feet deep and the ramp was getting really steep. I couldn't extend the ramp due to another pipe in the area. I started to spin while backing and pushed in the clutch and sort of free wheeled down hill a few feet. There was no impact or anything, but it was a lurch that triggered some strange things. The engine began to knock and smoke from under the hood, I lost tach function, I lost hydraulics, and I swear even the transmission was goofy but it's a gear drive and I'll admit I was in quite a panic at that point. I didn't want it to die in that hole. I managed to set the hand throttle and back out with help of the diff lock. Soon as I got up the ramp I shut it down and check things over. If I had to guess this episode might have lasted 30-60 seconds.

No external leaks, no oily mess on the intake, nothing odd on the oil, etc.
After about 15 minutes I started it up and all was normal again.

I was able to make another dozen or more trips down to finish the job with no repeats.

My only guess is the lurch at the bottom caused the fluids to rush forward/up and for instance maybe my hydraulic pump was sucking air. The tach not working and the smoking out the intake makes me think the cam/crank were out of sync but that's impossible. I'm baffled. I was very thankful it started up ok and I was able to finish my job with no repeats of this behavior. What do you guys think?
 

hodge

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John Deere 790 John Deere 310 backhoe Bobcat 743
Nov 19, 2010
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That is a weird series of events, that don't seem like they could be related. Trying to put as much of it together as possible, maybe the steep angle and the lurch caused it to ingest crude from the tank, filter, or pump, and at the same time, the angle caused your hydraulic system to suck air. The tach, I don't know. How much electronic management do the newer tractors have? Could something have shifted, damaging/affecting a wire harness that controled engine/fuel management?
If it were mine, I wouldn't want to rest now that it is running right. I would want to know what happened, and correct it.
 

BAP

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2012 Kubota 2920, 60MMM, FEL, BH65 48" Bush Hog, 60"Backblade, B2782B Snowblower
Dec 31, 2012
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The motor didn't start running backwards did it? A diesel that is about ready to stall and gets a jump back from the drivetrain can cause it to run backwards.
 

cb750k8

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B7200HST D 4X4
Aug 23, 2013
101
2
18
Dublin, Ireland
Well
These may be a long shots but:

Think about heavier than air gases in the hole. Septic tanks in a hole have bad connotations and there can be bad gases around. Is there another septic tank nearby?

Diesel engines can run "amock" out of control, if some other (not diesel) and uncontrolled fuel enters the cylinders above the pistons. Overfilling with lubeoil can cause this. In your case extreme angles and a jolt may be the cause. A manufacturer painted the exhaust of an engine which I was commissioning. Paint evapourated, got sucked into the air intake and the engine went crazy for a few minutes. Engine room filled with smoke!!

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
 

skrap1

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Dec 7, 2013
13
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Murfreesboro, Tennessee
I'll just mention something I ran across about 25 years ago.
My Father in laws tractor would run fine unless it was run over rough uneven ground or jarred in any way. Then it would smoke and sputter and loose power.
He had not changed the fuel filter since he had it. I changed it and found quite a bit of water in it.
Just guessing, when it got shaken up some water would get in the fuel lines.
With a new filter the problem went away. It doesn't account for all your symptoms but it may be something to check.
Good luck
 

Kurtee

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BX2660, BX2680 cab, JD 2032R, Honda 5518, JD X590, JD X739
Oct 3, 2013
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Nicollet, mn
Will a Kubota run backwards? The way you described it fits. A Cat and the old Detroits will. Smoke out the intake, no tach, or hydraulics are what happens when an engine runs backwards. How it would have corrected itself is beyond me as no mention of shutdown and restart is made.

In looking it up it has happened to others.

Kurtee
 
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kubotasam

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B2410, B7100dt, B7500,Woods BH750,Landpride 2660RFM, Tiller, B2781 Snowblower
Apr 26, 2010
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Alfred Maine
Sure sounds like the engine was running backwards to me.
 

MagKarl

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L245DT
Aug 2, 2010
663
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Olympia, WA
I think you guys may be on to something by suggesting that the engine was running backwards. It must have momentarily stalled and then compression started on that steep slope. All the symptoms sure seem to fit. I am so thankful even with a load and on that steep slope it was able to back up and out under it's own power.

I did shut down and check it over and when I restarted it was completely fine and worked it hard the rest of the day.

For those unfamiliar with my tractor, it's an L245DT that I'd guess is probably from 1980 or so. There are no electronics, it's completely mechanical once running. The odd transmission issue I mentioned earlier was forward and reverse gears were indeed backwards. I was hesitant to post that initially because it's a gear drive tractor and I was pretty flustered so convinced myself maybe I was imagining that part.
 
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skeets

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BX 2360 /B2601
Oct 2, 2009
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I didn't know about a diesel running backwards, yeah I guess that would really muck things up
 

SteveF

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BX25
May 15, 2013
307
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Huntingdon, PA
I think I wouldn't try to recreate it because things like the oil pump run backwards too... may be best to avoid the situation. Don't let the engine lug down! You gave a really great account of the situation. The expertise and common sense of the guys on this board are among the best anywhere...
 

hodge

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I think I wouldn't try to recreate it because things like the oil pump run backwards too... may be best to avoid the situation. Don't let the engine lug down! You gave a really great account of the situation. The expertise and common sense of the guys on this board are among the best anywhere...
It was a joke.
I don't advocate running a 4 stroke diesel reverse rotation.
 

lazarus

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L245DT
Jun 5, 2017
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Eden
new here , so this may be wrong. But if the engine is running backwards would then too the transmission not function corretly? I.E forward being reverse and reverse being forward? since it is gear driven and not a hst