Is There An Advantage To Getting A Factory Third Function?

[Soopitup]

Is the Kubota kit better than aftermarket options?
Or are there improved aftermarket ones?
Details please, I like to understand why a choice is made.

I'll be installing either way.
Going on a 23 BX.

 

[Daferris]

Not sure on the BX but for the LX it has hard lines along the loader arms that I feel are more durable plus the control knob is more comfortable at least for me.

 

[xrocketengineer]

I have a 2019 BX1880 with a dealer installed Land Pride 3rd function kit that has two buttons on the joystick handle in order to open and close (in my case) the grapple claw. I have 3 functions available all of the time. When I remove my FEL, I have to disconnect the standard 4 hose quick connect system and 2 additional hoses for the third function.
When looking at the Kubota repair manuals, the factory setup has a single button on the joystick handle to convert one of the existing FEL functions to operate the 3rd function using a diverter valve. So, there are only two functions available at any given time. When removing the FEL, you would have to disconnect the standard 4 hose quick connect system and an electrical connector that operates the diverter valve.
I do not know if the new BX models are still using the diverter valve system from the factory.

 

[DustyRusty]

Kubota doesn't offer a 3rd function valve for the BX23S, however, Land Pride does. Kubota does offer a diverter valve that functions like a 3rd function valve, but it is nowhere near as good as a true 3rd function valve. I installed the Land Pride kit and purchased it from Messicks. You MUST specify to whomever you purchase it from that you want the flat-faced couplers for the kit. From memory, there are a total of 4 different kits available, 2 with Pioneer couplers and 2 with flat-faced couplers. The kit for the BX23S with a cab is different from the kit for the tractor without a cab. I don't know exactly where or why there exists a difference.
I did my own installation, and the instructions were quite good including the color PDF that is available. The only issue is routing the hoses under the floor. I took the time to get it right and then using wire ties, made sure that there was nothing hanging down that could get pulled off by a branch or stick. I also purchased a BXpanded Under Armor. If a hose gets torn off, and you lose the hydrostatic fluid, the cost of replacement is more than the cost of the Under Armor, not to mention the hazardous waste cleanup that you will have to do.

 

[Soopitup]

Kubota doesn't offer a 3rd function valve for the BX23S, however, Land Pride does. Kubota does offer a diverter valve that functions like a 3rd function valve, but it is nowhere near as good as a true 3rd function valve. I installed the Land Pride kit and purchased it from Messicks. You MUST specify to whomever you purchase it from that you want the flat-faced couplers for the kit. From memory, there are a total of 4 different kits available, 2 with Pioneer couplers and 2 with flat-faced couplers. The kit for the BX23S with a cab is different from the kit for the tractor without a cab. I don't know exactly where or why there exists a difference.
I did my own installation, and the instructions were quite good including the color PDF that is available. The only issue is routing the hoses under the floor. I took the time to get it right and then using wire ties, made sure that there was nothing hanging down that could get pulled off by a branch or stick. I also purchased a BXpanded Under Armor. If a hose gets torn off, and you lose the hydrostatic fluid, the cost of replacement is more than the cost of the Under Armor, not to mention the hazardous waste cleanup that you will have to do.

Awesome info, thanks.
Do you have a backhoe? Reading through the directions that could cause complications.

They only list 2 kit part numbers on their site for the 80 and 23S (there's 2 kits for the 60, 70, and 25D also).
380-339A: 3FVK FF BX2680
380-289A: 3FVK PC BX2680

FF is the flat face couplers.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

I bought my LX new from the dealer and had them add the 3rd function before I took delivery.
The dealer installed some other brand, not K or Land Pride, and said was as good or better than "factory".
My 2 cents.

 

[GrizBota]

If by factory, you are also including “dealer installed”, I say if you’re capable, install it yourself. The dealer will give the tech an hour to do it and you’ll pay for what you get (if your really lucky, you’ll get what you paid for).

IIRC a member on here had the dealer install a 3rd function on their new BX earlier this year. The hoses were routed horribly under the floor, in what appeared to be an effort to be sure they’d be pulled off. One hose was hanging down 6 inches or more. All the hoses were routed beneath everything else (closest to the ground, when rubber side down) as it was the laziest way it could be done. The dealer must have used up their zip tie allocation for the week, so they couldn’t hide their shoddy work.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

If by factory, you are also including “dealer installed”, I say if you’re capable, install it yourself. The dealer will give the tech an hour to do it and you’ll pay for what you get (if your really lucky, you’ll get what you paid for).

IIRC a member on here had the dealer install a 3rd function on their new BX earlier this year. The hoses were routed horribly under the floor, in what appeared to be an effort to be sure they’d be pulled off. One hose was hanging down 6 inches or more. All the hoses were routed beneath everything else (closest to the ground, when rubber side down) as it was the laziest way it could be done. The dealer must have used up their zip tie allocation for the week, so they couldn’t hide their shoddy work.

Yep, 100 percent.

Had I known before hand, that the dealer wasn't installing a Kubota or LP unit, I would have just bought the parts online and did it myself.
Overall, my dealer installed 3rd function has been good, but I'd probably have several hundy more in my pocket if I did it myself.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Is the Kubota kit better than aftermarket options?
Or are there improved aftermarket ones?
Details please, I like to understand why a choice is made.

I'll be installing either way.
Going on a 23 BX.

For a BX I think they are all 3rd party. The only real difference is the ergonomics of the joystick mounted handle and switch. That's a personal look and feel preference.

The plumbing on a BX is not as easily accessible as some other models so "some assembly required" may be an issue for owners contemplating DIY. You also need to understand the hydraulic circuit.....

Dan

 

[DustyRusty]

All BX23S have the backhoe installed as standard equipment. I installed it with the assistance of a friend. The Land Pride unit came with a pre-bent metal pipe end rubber hose that connected to the machine after you removed the original pipe. It was 2 years ago, so I don't remember everything about it, but I do remember that you need to pull the rubber off of the handles on the right side of the seat and remove the plastic cover to gain access to the plumbing. I have a cab on my tractor, so we pushed the power wire up the right pillar and installed a switch to power the unit. The electrical power is already in the header of the cab.
Things that I learned while installing the unit:
a) put the hoses on the valve prior to bolting to the tractor because of the tight working conditions.
B) Use a male and female on the valve to differentiate the way the hoses attach to the appliance. That way moving the handle to the right will rotate the snow blower chute up and left is down. This is just an example of one of the uses for the third function on my machine. For my grapple, the right opens it, and the left closes it.
C) Check for leaks before you close anything up! I had one hose on the loader valve that needed a slight tweak to stop a leak.
D) If you have a mower deck, make sure that the hoses are not in the way of the deck lowering linkage.
E) Use a hair dryer to warm the rubber handles before trying to remove them. Makes it a lot easier.

I have posted the link to the Messicks PDF with the color picture instructions, and I also have the paper instructions as a PDF, however, it is too large to post to the forum. If you send me your email address by using the "envelope" at the top right side of the page, I will send it to you.

https://messicks.com/uploads/assets/380-289A_color_copy.pdf

 

[mikester]

I put three OEM remotes on the back and one on the front when I ordered my machine.

The OEM kits tend to fit better IMHO because they are made for your machine rather than an assembly of misc parts and hose lengths and fittings that are "good enough"

My previous tractor had one rear OEM remote and an aftermarket diverter kit plumbed with a diverter for a FEL remote already installed. Looked like sh*t with zip ties and hoses dangling underneath - great way to get branches caught in your undercarriage.

 

[D2Cat]

I put three OEM remotes on the back and one on the front when I ordered my machine.

The OEM kits tend to fit better IMHO because they are made for your machine rather than an assembly of misc parts and hose lengths and fittings that are "good enough"

My previous tractor had one rear OEM remote and an aftermarket diverter kit plumbed with a diverter for a FEL remote already installed. Looked like sh*t with zip ties and hoses dangling underneath - great way to get branches caught in your undercarriage.

That is the greatest benefit. The lines fit under the factory placed clamps on the loader arms, it's steel lines (not hoses), and functions smoothly.

 

[Nate77]

My vote is for the Kubota 3rd function vs the Land Pride. Cleaner install, everything stays on the loader when the loader is removed, just an electrical connection for removal, way better ergonomics, and comfort on the control stick.

It is a diverter valve, but I’ve never needed to curl my grappled and close the lid at the same time, so no problem.

 

[Soopitup]

For a BX I think they are all 3rd party. The only real difference is the ergonomics of the joystick mounted handle and switch. That's a personal look and feel preference.

The plumbing on a BX is not as easily accessible as some other models so "some assembly required" may be an issue for owners contemplating DIY. You also need to understand the hydraulic circuit.....

Dan

My understanding is Land Pride is owned by Kubota and is basically OEM?
I have lots of experience wrenching in general, just never on tractors.
The only thing I'm murky on is the power beyond. I think I understand what it is in general (you're basically adding another "circuit" in parallel with the other circuit?).
Is there any kind of primer or something I can read up on more of the specifics? I'm not good with just being told something, I have to understand the whole thing.

All BX23S have the backhoe installed as standard equipment. I installed it with the assistance of a friend. The Land Pride unit came with a pre-bent metal pipe end rubber hose that connected to the machine after you removed the original pipe. It was 2 years ago, so I don't remember everything about it, but I do remember that you need to pull the rubber off of the handles on the right side of the seat and remove the plastic cover to gain access to the plumbing. I have a cab on my tractor, so we pushed the power wire up the right pillar and installed a switch to power the unit. The electrical power is already in the header of the cab.
Things that I learned while installing the unit:
a) put the hoses on the valve prior to bolting to the tractor because of the tight working conditions.
B) Use a male and female on the valve to differentiate the way the hoses attach to the appliance. That way moving the handle to the right will rotate the snow blower chute up and left is down. This is just an example of one of the uses for the third function on my machine. For my grapple, the right opens it, and the left closes it.
C) Check for leaks before you close anything up! I had one hose on the loader valve that needed a slight tweak to stop a leak.
D) If you have a mower deck, make sure that the hoses are not in the way of the deck lowering linkage.
E) Use a hair dryer to warm the rubber handles before trying to remove them. Makes it a lot easier.

I have posted the link to the Messicks PDF with the color picture instructions, and I also have the paper instructions as a PDF, however, it is too large to post to the forum. If you send me your email address by using the "envelope" at the top right side of the page, I will send it to you.

https://messicks.com/uploads/assets/380-289A_color_copy.pdf

Thank you for the tips.
The instructions are also available on the Land Pride website, I had downloaded them so I had a bit of a heads up.
I just ordered the kit (still waiting on it), so I'm trying to wrap my head around it ahead of time.
I asked about the backhoe because they specifically state in the instructions don't connect if the outer block feeds the backhoe. This may be more for the BX2380? Or maybe an aftermarket setup?

 

[Soopitup]

Not sure what's up with the crossed out lines?

 

[skeets]

Maybe it has all been redacted

 

[DustyRusty]

For a BX I think they are all 3rd party. The only real difference is the ergonomics of the joystick mounted handle and switch. That's a personal look and feel preference.

The plumbing on a BX is not as easily accessible as some other models so "some assembly required" may be an issue for owners contemplating DIY. You also need to understand the hydraulic circuit.....

Dan

I will be the first to say that I don't understand hydraulic circuits, however, I am able to follow instructions, especially when the instructions are accompanied by very good color pictures. Installing the unit was a walk in the park, and couldn't have been any easier than following the instructions.

 

[DustyRusty]

My vote is for the Kubota 3rd function vs the Land Pride. Cleaner install, everything stays on the loader when the loader is removed, just an electrical connection for removal, way better ergonomics, and comfort on the control stick.

It is a diverter valve, but I’ve never needed to curl my grappled and close the lid at the same time, so no problem.

If you fully read and understand the Land Pride instructions, you would understand that the 3rd function valve is permanently mounted to the tractor and that when the loader is removed, you just disconnect the two couplings on the 3rd function valve and the hoses that go to the front of the loader stay on the loader. Another benefit of the 3rd function is that you don't have to deal with hooking up and removing an electrical connection with the associated issues of maintaining the electrical connection from failure. The electrical connection is permanent and you can use the third function valve for other purposes, such as operating the hydraulic cylinder that moves the hood of the snowblower chute up and down.

It doesn't matter to me which unit you choose, or if you never add a 3rd function or a diverter valve to your tractor. That is your personal choice in life to make. Just because you don't see the need to both close your grapple and at the same time curl it, doesn't mean that someone else might want that feature. We all make choices in life that fit our lifestyle. A 3rd function vs a diverter valve gives the operator greater choice at no additional expense.

 

[Russell King]

“The only thing I'm murky on is the power beyond. I think I understand what it is in general (you're basically adding another "circuit" in parallel with the other circuit?)

just think of it as a fluid line that has to have continuous flow or the pump would be damaged.

The tractor has a pump that has to move fluid and can on stand limited pressure. If the pump has an outlet hose connected to a valve then the valve has to let the fluid flow through the valve to the sump or to the next valve then it has to be returned to the sump for the pump to pick up and pump through the system again.

If that hose was plugged the pump would be in a condition called “dead head” and there would be no flow and pressure would build up since the pump has to move fluid (positive displacement). Eventually something will have to release the pressure and it could be the hose or pump case rupturing.

So Kubota uses an open center system so the fluid flows from valve to valve with little pressure. The pressure beyond is a port of the valve that protects the valve and passes the fluid flow through to the next. The power beyond from valve one is conn to the power in of valve two and so on.

There should be one or more pressure relief valve in the system to protect the pump. For instance if the valve is connected to a cylinder when the cylinder reaches the end of its travel the pump would be dead headed unless the valve has some mechanism to limit the pressure.

Then the tank return is used for low pressure fluid movement. For instance if the cylinder is a double acting cylinder when one side is under pressure and moving the cylinder piston then the other side of the cylinder has to allow the fluid to flow out and that is tank return.

 

[jyoutz]

If by factory, you are also including “dealer installed”, I say if you’re capable, install it yourself. The dealer will give the tech an hour to do it and you’ll pay for what you get (if your really lucky, you’ll get what you paid for).

IIRC a member on here had the dealer install a 3rd function on their new BX earlier this year. The hoses were routed horribly under the floor, in what appeared to be an effort to be sure they’d be pulled off. One hose was hanging down 6 inches or more. All the hoses were routed beneath everything else (closest to the ground, when rubber side down) as it was the laziest way it could be done. The dealer must have used up their zip tie allocation for the week, so they couldn’t hide their shoddy work.

I don’t think that example represents how most dealers do their work.