Is it safe to flip backhoe hoses?

[Elemento1991]

Hey all,

Proud soon to be owner of a B26 TLB here in a few days. I have been looking forward to this machine for a long time and its going to be amazing to have something other than a quad to work with on my property. However it was to my dismay when I sat down on the machine to go over and check everything out and I was a mess on the backhoe. I realized it had Deere controls and there's no switch on this machine. This will be like trying to write with my left hand the whole time and mess me up if I jump on an excavator. I'm a little leery about getting used to it because I would like to stay fluent on ISO controls.

I was going to just swap the hoses but I was reading that it can be dangerous because there are specific relief valves and metering in the valve stack for each function. Anyone done this? Did it make your function speeds not flow well together?

Surprised there's not more info on the topic and I couldn't find anything concrete, even when trying to cross reference the blown up parts schematics on Messicks or the service manual.

 

[Old Machinist]

Not familiar with the valve block on a Kubota backhoe but have you read the manual to see if it sheds any light on the subject?

 

[mikester]

I would just flip the lines and see how it goes. I’d be more weary if it was a 10 ton machine with 5,000psi hydraulics.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Hey all,

Proud soon to be owner of a B26 TLB here in a few days. I have been looking forward to this machine for a long time and its going to be amazing to have something other than a quad to work with on my property. However it was to my dismay when I sat down on the machine to go over and check everything out and I was a mess on the backhoe. I realized it had Deere controls and there's no switch on this machine. This will be like trying to write with my left hand the whole time and mess me up if I jump on an excavator. I'm a little leery about getting used to it because I would like to stay fluent on ISO controls.

I was going to just swap the hoses but I was reading that it can be dangerous because there are specific relief valves and metering in the valve stack for each function. Anyone done this? Did it make your function speeds not flow well together?

Surprised there's not more info on the topic and I couldn't find anything concrete, even when trying to cross reference the blown up parts schematics on Messicks or the service manual.

I don't have access to the WSM for your machine, but I think there are 3 port reliefs, 2 on the swing and 1 on the extend end of the stick. Theoretically, you could swap the reliefs to the corresponding location, but I doubt the sections are all prepared for reliefs.

This appears to be a stacked valve, so you could remove the tie rods and move the section to keep it with the function you move.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't have access to the WSM for your machine, but I think there are 3 port reliefs, 2 on the swing and 1 on the extend end of the stick. Theoretically, you could swap the reliefs to the corresponding location, but I doubt the sections are all prepared for reliefs.

This appears to be a stacked valve, so you could remove the tie rods and move the section to keep it with the function you move.

Triple bullseye!

What we have here is a thinker not a guesser

Dan

 

[imarobot]

Triple bullseye!

What we have here is a thinker not a guesser

Dan

I wish I understood this enough to come up with a reply with that...

 

[TheOldHokie]

I wish I understood this enough to come up with a reply with that...

The valve sections are not all the same. Swapping hoses at the valves puts the cylinders on the wrong valves.To change the joystick pattern you have to reorder the sections not swap the hoses.

Dan

 

[Elemento1991]

I don't have access to the WSM for your machine, but I think there are 3 port reliefs, 2 on the swing and 1 on the extend end of the stick. Theoretically, you could swap the reliefs to the corresponding location, but I doubt the sections are all prepared for reliefs.

This appears to be a stacked valve, so you could remove the tie rods and move the section to keep it with the function you move.

This was basically the conclusion I came to as well after looking through the service manuals and schematics. Looked like it could be done if you ordered the replacement O-rings, reordered the valves and retorqued everything. However I'm a little leery of tearing into a multi-thousand dollar part if I don't need to. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. From what I saw some of the tolerances on these valve blocks is in the 10 thousandths of an inch. Even though its an annoyance I think I'll just run it for a while on Deere controls and adapt. It'll feel totally backwards at first and I wouldn't want anyone within 10 feet of me for the first day or two but muscle memory is usually strong for me. It'll just take a week or two to undo what I'm used to.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This was basically the conclusion I came to as well after looking through the service manuals and schematics. Looked like it could be done if you ordered the replacement O-rings, reordered the valves and retorqued everything. However I'm a little leery of tearing into a multi-thousand dollar part if I don't need to. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. From what I saw some of the tolerances on these valve blocks is in the 10 thousandths of an inch. Even though its an annoyance I think I'll just run it for a while on Deere controls and adapt. It'll feel totally backwards at first and I wouldn't want anyone within 10 feet of me for the first day or two but muscle memory is usually strong for me. It'll just take a week or two to undo what I'm used to.

I am not trying to talk you into something above your pay grade but those valve stacks are made for shop assembly and disassembly. Nothing in that process is high precision. Just a lot of grunt work to R&R the stack as an assembly and take it to a bench.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

This was basically the conclusion I came to as well after looking through the service manuals and schematics. Looked like it could be done if you ordered the replacement O-rings, reordered the valves and retorqued everything. However I'm a little leery of tearing into a multi-thousand dollar part if I don't need to. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. From what I saw some of the tolerances on these valve blocks is in the 10 thousandths of an inch. Even though its an annoyance I think I'll just run it for a while on Deere controls and adapt. It'll feel totally backwards at first and I wouldn't want anyone within 10 feet of me for the first day or two but muscle memory is usually strong for me. It'll just take a week or two to undo what I'm used to.

I'll just ditto TheOldHokie's comments. I had my loader valve apart to add a section from a valve i bought on eBay. I didn't have new o-rings, so I re-used 15 year old ones. I made new tie rods and saw later I used fine thread on one instead of OEM coarse. Anyway, I was careful to keep everything neat and clean, and it hasn't leaked a drop. The fine tolerances are internal to the sections. My valve is a Husco 5000 series, yours appears to be different. I did have to be careful of the load check valve springs.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I didn't have new o-rings, so I re-used 15 year old ones.

Anyway, I was careful to keep everything neat and clean, and it hasn't leaked a drop. The fine tolerances are internal to the sections

Another bullseye.

Dan

 

[Shawn T. W]

My take on the two different set up of the controls, never heard of them refered to a Deere though, either ISO & SAE or Excavator & Backhoe ...

Anyhow ... When I was considering a Mini-X ... I was planning on running that in ISO mode, and keep my SAE on my TLB (which doesn't offer a choice) ... I'm pretty sure it's the same way we differentiate between sitting on a tractor or Z-turn ... The BH your sticks are in front of you (at least mine are!) , the EX they are beside you thighs so different setup ...

Same as snowmobile vs motorcycle ...

 

[Old Machinist]

Not sure how the B26 TLB compares to the BH77 that would fit my tractor because I could not find the parts listing for it. BUT the valve sections for the BH77 backhoe all have different part numbers so I assume the backhoe on the B26 would also. The suggestion to swap the valve stacks should be correct and work. Not as simple as swapping hoses but should be doable.

If it were mine I would just adapt to the different patterns.

 

[JonM]

i doubt its possible as there isnt a whole lot of extra line in the control valves to switch them around

 

[TheOldHokie]

i doubt its possible as there isnt a whole lot of extra line in the control valves to switch them around

Easy to check that..

Dan

 

[JonM]

Easy to check that..

Dan

yeah just pop the cover off the control tower. my bh92 has zero play for changing hoses. i had thought of that when i installed the hydraylic thumb on mine and i wanted at the time for one lever to work opposite but there was zero hose length to do a swap.

 

[Elemento1991]

My take on the two different set up of the controls, never heard of them refered to a Deere though, either ISO & SAE or Excavator & Backhoe ...

Anyhow ... When I was considering a Mini-X ... I was planning on running that in ISO mode, and keep my SAE on my TLB (which doesn't offer a choice) ... I'm pretty sure it's the same way we differentiate between sitting on a tractor or Z-turn ... The BH your sticks are in front of you (at least mine are!) , the EX they are beside you thighs so different setup ...

Same as snowmobile vs motorcycle ...

Might’ve been an old school thing. My pap was an operator in local 66 and he use to call SAE - Deere Controls and ISO - CAT controls. I’m guessing maybe back in the 70s-80s when he was operating and equipment was starting to advance Deere picked one patter and CAT chose the other before they started making everything selectable.

 

[Baby Backhoe Dirtworks]

My take on the two different set up of the controls, never heard of them refered to a Deere though, either ISO & SAE or Excavator & Backhoe ...

Anyhow ... When I was considering a Mini-X ... I was planning on running that in ISO mode, and keep my SAE on my TLB (which doesn't offer a choice) ... I'm pretty sure it's the same way we differentiate between sitting on a tractor or Z-turn ... The BH your sticks are in front of you (at least mine are!) , the EX they are beside you thighs so different setup ...

Same as snowmobile vs motorcycle ...

I would agree wholeheartedly with Shawn. I learned on excavator controls, then got my backhoe and had to relearn. Took me a while before I was confident working tight up against a nice house, but I will and do regularly now. And when I do sit down now in an excavator, it takes me a couple minutes to reroute my brain, but 5-15 minutes and I'm up and running strong. In an hour or two, I'm running throttle up and confident to the point that it'll take me a few minutes to switch back to backhoe controls. All of which (I feel) is simpler that changing my machine. And as a bonus, now I can run both, should I hop into someone else's machine!

One further point that I think is worth mentioning: both control patterns exist, and for a reason. The functions of a backhoe differ slightly from the functions of an excavator. I haven't run backhoe with excavator controls (or vice versa) but I suspect that I would be almost more confused, because now when hopping onto another machine, the controls are the same (no hard reset required in my brain) but the functions have been altered slightly. Specifically, the backhoe has a dedicated boom swivel (left and right) while the excavator has a full machine swivel (360* around). Additionally, some excavators have a boom swivel on a separate switch (I learned with one on the floor). I suspect being as much different as backhoe/excavator controls are actually makes switching between the two styles of equipment much easier in the long run.

 

[ItBmine]

Mine is a BH65 on a B2620. I swapped mine. At least on that model I couldn't find any difference in valve, hoses or relief valves.
I have several hours on it now with no problems or difference in performance.