Hey, just thought I'd introduce myself to the forum and ask a couple questions. Hello from Grafton, Ohio. Just purchased a new L3901 with 525 loader for my 9 acres on the black river. Kind of new to tractors. I have a little experience on an old ford 9N. A little different from this modern marvel I just picked up today. Still trying to get a grasp on how this new tier 4 emissions system operates, kinda confusing. Got a couple questions for you guys. As far as operation on a HST tractor I understand the hydro wine is normal as I've owned a garden tractor a long time ago with a hydro trans. On this tractor it seams a little loud, is that normal. Also what rpm's are guys doing loader work in. Digging in solid ground and really working the thing vs just lifting light stuff and driving around. It's hard to get a feel for what's right in the rpm range on this thing for what operation. Also what would be a circumstance to use the rear dif lock in 4 wheel drive. Is that some that is used just once in a while when your stuck or is it utilized often to get traction when digging or what. I'm so excited I'm like a little kid on Christmas morning with this thing.
Introduction and a couple questions
- Thread starter Vtwinhd
- Start date
Thought of something else too. I've got some pretty steep and rugged terrain On my property. This is mostly going to be woods tractor but I will use for snow removal and grass cutting. As far as off road mud, rocks, hill, saplings, multiflora rose, what can I expect as far as off road performance from this machine maneuvering around the woods. Anything to watch out for specifically. I Plan on going slow and taking it easy until I get comfortable with it.
Diff lock- if pushing and a wheel spins,i back off and step on lock lever and try pushing again. Never apply diff lock when wheel is spinning. Stuck-between bucket and diff lock you should never be stuck. Unless in some kinda goo up to floorboards-you shoulda known better.
Refer to your manual for aporoaching slopes and always travel with your loaded bucket as low as reasonably possible.enjoy your new toy-um,tool.
Refer to your manual for aporoaching slopes and always travel with your loaded bucket as low as reasonably possible.enjoy your new toy-um,tool.
Welcome! One additional thing to watch for in the woods is the ROPS is higher than you think and catches branches, twigs etc which snap off and drop down your back.
85Hokie
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BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
It will be loud...........until you change the hydraulic oil to a synthetic, it will stay loud!
- IF you pay the $$$$ get the S-UDT2 stuff, it should make the ol girl a bit quieter! As far as RPM's - I would say work it at 80% of the usable range. Unless you are trying to work in a situation that requires a fine touch.
Even though many work as low on the rpm range as possible - the machine is designed to work at a certain level, the fluid in the hydraulic system and engine rpms will work the best at that sweet spot, several people have a different sweet spot. I like to work in the upper limit, 3400 is WOT and I work in the 3000 - 3200 most of time!
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Welcome to the forum from Alabama. I found that around where the PTO 540RPM marker seems to be about best. Use a lower range if that seems too fast or a higher range if that seems too slow..
North Idaho Wolfman
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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
I live in the woods, they are very formidable tractors in a lot of conditions.
Take it slow and learn as you go.
Take it slow and learn as you go.
Welcome!
The diff lock has an advantage when doing loader work. With the lock engaged, the tractor will tend to push straight into the pile or dig path. With it off, you can get more drift in the path. So if you are having issues cutting straight, use the diff lock.
While you are learning the new unit, make sure to give yourself extra time and don't rush anything. Be deliberate in all your actions, if something isn't working as planned, stop, rethink it and safely try something else. My first 10 hours on my L3200 were spent this way until I started to feel comfortable with it. Since I don't get to use it regularly I have to repeat the process for a couple of hours when I start back on it again.
Safety is more important than looking studly on the tractor. That comes with practice!
Again, welcome to OTT.
The diff lock has an advantage when doing loader work. With the lock engaged, the tractor will tend to push straight into the pile or dig path. With it off, you can get more drift in the path. So if you are having issues cutting straight, use the diff lock.
While you are learning the new unit, make sure to give yourself extra time and don't rush anything. Be deliberate in all your actions, if something isn't working as planned, stop, rethink it and safely try something else. My first 10 hours on my L3200 were spent this way until I started to feel comfortable with it. Since I don't get to use it regularly I have to repeat the process for a couple of hours when I start back on it again.
Safety is more important than looking studly on the tractor. That comes with practice!
Again, welcome to OTT.
CaveCreekRay
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
1500 min for light operations with the loader.
2000 for moderate lifting/driving.
2500 for the heaviest work.
Listen to the engine for loading. If the tach dips more than a couple hundred RPM, you probably need to add some power.
Keep in mind your flow rate for FEL movement picks up with higher RPM. Makes handling the FEL tricky because it really snaps around. Keep your RPM low at first and don't strain it until it passes the break-in period. You'll be money ahead breaking it in according to the owners manual.
While you are getting used to it or training someone else, like your wife, keep it in LOW range. With the RPM up at 1500 to 2000, you won't move too fast or too far if you press the wrong pedal.
The HST is heinously loud. I wear headphones at all times. Can't wait to swap to synthetic when the time comes. May do it early just because.
For picking up material with the FEL, don't charge the pile... come in with the lip of the bucket low and scrape the pile while rolling the bucket backwards and lifting the loader arms. Takes practice but it is the most efficient way and puts the least strain on the machine.
Have fun!
2000 for moderate lifting/driving.
2500 for the heaviest work.
Listen to the engine for loading. If the tach dips more than a couple hundred RPM, you probably need to add some power.
Keep in mind your flow rate for FEL movement picks up with higher RPM. Makes handling the FEL tricky because it really snaps around. Keep your RPM low at first and don't strain it until it passes the break-in period. You'll be money ahead breaking it in according to the owners manual.
While you are getting used to it or training someone else, like your wife, keep it in LOW range. With the RPM up at 1500 to 2000, you won't move too fast or too far if you press the wrong pedal.
The HST is heinously loud. I wear headphones at all times. Can't wait to swap to synthetic when the time comes. May do it early just because.
For picking up material with the FEL, don't charge the pile... come in with the lip of the bucket low and scrape the pile while rolling the bucket backwards and lifting the loader arms. Takes practice but it is the most efficient way and puts the least strain on the machine.
Have fun!
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tcrote5516
New member
Equipment
BX1860, FEL, 50" Front Blower, Heated Cab, 6' blade, 3pt carry all, 3pt hitch
I agree 100% with everything BUT this. Idling, increasing the RPM, and hauling light loads will not create enough combustion pressure to seat new rings (ones that will last and not consume oil down the road). Diesel engines operate best under load and loading a new engine is the only way to properly seat them. Compression rings rely on the greater combustion pressure to force them down against the bottom of the piston’s ring lands and outward to the cylinder wall. Without this combustion force, these rings will not seat or seal properly. Oil control rings regulate the amount of oil film left on the cylinder wall to lubricate the compression rings and in turn each compression ring removes some amount of this oil film resulting in proper oil control. With diesel's its extremely important to properly seat the rings in the first few hrs. You can't do this with a feather approach, it needs to be loaded hard. I made sure to vary my RPM's during the first 15-25hrs (to benefit the new rotating assembly) but I put it under load, at multiple RPM's and the loads were heavy.
The only caution is that heat is always the enemy and that includes break in. Heavy loads at normal running temp withing the first few hours will result in a cleaner burning, higher hp producing and longer lasting engine.
I can't speak for the HST's but on my DT, I tend to run RPM at about 1700-1800 and use the throttle pedal when actually working. This varies the RPM's over the permissible range and saves gobs of fuel. I do this with the other tractors I operate, it was taught to me by my father decades ago, and it does seem to be the best way to operate the tractors, at least in my experience.
If I'm doing something constant, like mowing or ground implement work, I set the throttle on the lowest speed I want the unit to run and still use the pedal to move it up when I'm looking for more speed or power. An added side effect is a little bit of foot fatigue and when that starts happening, I know it's time to dismount, and take a little bit of a break. So that gives me a built in timer to check out the tractor, bio-breaks, stretch and get focus back.
I think one of the things most of us tractor operators overlook is ourselves. We notice every whine, groan and squeak from our tractors but totally ignore what our bodies might be telling us!
If I'm doing something constant, like mowing or ground implement work, I set the throttle on the lowest speed I want the unit to run and still use the pedal to move it up when I'm looking for more speed or power. An added side effect is a little bit of foot fatigue and when that starts happening, I know it's time to dismount, and take a little bit of a break. So that gives me a built in timer to check out the tractor, bio-breaks, stretch and get focus back.
I think one of the things most of us tractor operators overlook is ourselves. We notice every whine, groan and squeak from our tractors but totally ignore what our bodies might be telling us!
CaveCreekRay
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
Tcrote5516,
Maybe the rings on these tractors are of a different design than heavy diesels. Or, perhaps they want the bearings and other moving parts to break in first before seating the rings under normal load. They are pretty clear about taking it easy though for the first 50 hours...
(Operators Manual, KUBOTA Tractor models L3200/3800)
OPERATING NEW TRACTOR
How a new tractor is handled and maintained determines the life of the tractor.
A new tractor just off the factory production line has been, of course, tested but the various parts are not accustomed to each other, so care should be taken to operate the tractor for the first 50 hours at a slower speed to avoid excessive work or operation until the various parts become "broken in." The manner in which the tractor is handled during the "break in" period greatly affects the life of your tractor. Therefore, to obtain the maximum performance and the longest life of your tractor, it is very important to properly break-in your tractor In handling a new tractor, the following precautions should be observed:
-Do Not Operate the Tractor at Full Speed for the first 50 Hours
-Do not start quickly nor apply the brakes suddenly.
-In winter, operate the tractor after fully warming up the engine.
-Do not run the engine at speeds faster than necessary.
-On rough roads, slow down to suitable speeds.
Do not operate the tractor at fast speed
The above precautions are not limited only to new tractors, but to all tractors. But it should be especially observed in the case of new tractors.
Maybe the rings on these tractors are of a different design than heavy diesels. Or, perhaps they want the bearings and other moving parts to break in first before seating the rings under normal load. They are pretty clear about taking it easy though for the first 50 hours...
(Operators Manual, KUBOTA Tractor models L3200/3800)
OPERATING NEW TRACTOR
How a new tractor is handled and maintained determines the life of the tractor.
A new tractor just off the factory production line has been, of course, tested but the various parts are not accustomed to each other, so care should be taken to operate the tractor for the first 50 hours at a slower speed to avoid excessive work or operation until the various parts become "broken in." The manner in which the tractor is handled during the "break in" period greatly affects the life of your tractor. Therefore, to obtain the maximum performance and the longest life of your tractor, it is very important to properly break-in your tractor In handling a new tractor, the following precautions should be observed:
-Do Not Operate the Tractor at Full Speed for the first 50 Hours
-Do not start quickly nor apply the brakes suddenly.
-In winter, operate the tractor after fully warming up the engine.
-Do not run the engine at speeds faster than necessary.
-On rough roads, slow down to suitable speeds.
Do not operate the tractor at fast speed
The above precautions are not limited only to new tractors, but to all tractors. But it should be especially observed in the case of new tractors.
tcrote5516
New member
Equipment
BX1860, FEL, 50" Front Blower, Heated Cab, 6' blade, 3pt carry all, 3pt hitch
Thanks Ray,
If you really read that direction from Kubota you will notice they do not mention anything about not loading down the engine. Everything they talk about (short of RPM) is to protect the fresh HST/gearbox's during break in.
Obviously there's no positive reason to max out the RPM during break in but that doesn't mean you shouldn't load it up. In fact it's a mistake if you don't in those first few critical hours. These engines are virtually no different from any other deisel's from a ring standpoint. While I didn't max throttle and stab the hst pedal to the floor I did make steady, smooth full loaded passes into untouched dirt piles and loaded/unloaded the engine progressively. If you understand what is actualy happening inside the cylinder of a deisel it's clear why this pressure is so important to long engine life.
I'm not saying a gentle break in will self destruct in 100 hrs. I am saying one that has been loaded the right way during break in will run MANY more hours before needing a rebuild due to low compression/consuming oil/smoke. It will also use less fuel and produce more power over its lifespan. As long as that load isn't a harsh shock it will not harm the HST during break in.
Edit: Wanted to add heat cycle note. Proper heat cycling of the engine is really more important than rev range (again, keep it under 2,700) Break in is not 20 straight hrs of operation, its 20 - 30 heat cycles. Many parts in a new engine have internal stresses from manufacturing processes, which are slowly released by heat. If you took a piston out of your 13-year-old Kubota and one from your absolutely brand-spanking-new Bota and put both in an oven at 500 degrees Fahrenheit for half an hour, you'd be surprised at the outcome. The 13-year-old scarred and worn-out piston will look like it did when you put it in. The new piston will be warped junk. The reason is that heat unlocks the internal stresses and allows the molecules of the metal to rearrange. The same process happens inside the engine during break-in, but the cylinder walls confine the piston. Many heat cycles later, the piston has relaxed and taken on the desired shape inside the cylinder.
If you really read that direction from Kubota you will notice they do not mention anything about not loading down the engine. Everything they talk about (short of RPM) is to protect the fresh HST/gearbox's during break in.
Obviously there's no positive reason to max out the RPM during break in but that doesn't mean you shouldn't load it up. In fact it's a mistake if you don't in those first few critical hours. These engines are virtually no different from any other deisel's from a ring standpoint. While I didn't max throttle and stab the hst pedal to the floor I did make steady, smooth full loaded passes into untouched dirt piles and loaded/unloaded the engine progressively. If you understand what is actualy happening inside the cylinder of a deisel it's clear why this pressure is so important to long engine life.
I'm not saying a gentle break in will self destruct in 100 hrs. I am saying one that has been loaded the right way during break in will run MANY more hours before needing a rebuild due to low compression/consuming oil/smoke. It will also use less fuel and produce more power over its lifespan. As long as that load isn't a harsh shock it will not harm the HST during break in.
Edit: Wanted to add heat cycle note. Proper heat cycling of the engine is really more important than rev range (again, keep it under 2,700) Break in is not 20 straight hrs of operation, its 20 - 30 heat cycles. Many parts in a new engine have internal stresses from manufacturing processes, which are slowly released by heat. If you took a piston out of your 13-year-old Kubota and one from your absolutely brand-spanking-new Bota and put both in an oven at 500 degrees Fahrenheit for half an hour, you'd be surprised at the outcome. The 13-year-old scarred and worn-out piston will look like it did when you put it in. The new piston will be warped junk. The reason is that heat unlocks the internal stresses and allows the molecules of the metal to rearrange. The same process happens inside the engine during break-in, but the cylinder walls confine the piston. Many heat cycles later, the piston has relaxed and taken on the desired shape inside the cylinder.
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CaveCreekRay
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
I guess it comes down to knowledge and finesse. Kubota is opting for the more conservative approach to get their tractors through warranty. Your explanation is excellent and makes perfect sense.
I broke in a Suzuki DR 650 using the repeated heating and cooling cycles as recommended by the manual. I'd ride it for ten minutes every hour and let it cool. I did that for the first few weeks I had it. The thing pulls like a monster as it has for the last 17 years. Zero oil burn.
As for my tractor, I can pretty much tell the previous owner didn't break it in gently. The rototiller has scores of rusty dents on the case and that tells me he spent a few of those early hours wailing along dragging the tiller. In fact, the first thing he did was till his entire back yard to put in a vineyard. I bet that was in the first 5 hours on the clock... Fortunately, they were short rows of maybe 75 to 100 feet each.
I cannot imagine more stress in a tractor motor than dragging a tiller through 12 inches of wet soil on a river bank. My motor starts and runs just fine and doesn't smoke at all except after start-up and only for the first few cylinders. Checking the tires the other day with a face full of exhaust, I was amazed at how little "smell" I got out of the idling engine blowing in my face. The engine burns zero oil.
My cylinders have been "seasoned." I just hope my tranny and rear end got a chance to break in.
I broke in a Suzuki DR 650 using the repeated heating and cooling cycles as recommended by the manual. I'd ride it for ten minutes every hour and let it cool. I did that for the first few weeks I had it. The thing pulls like a monster as it has for the last 17 years. Zero oil burn.
As for my tractor, I can pretty much tell the previous owner didn't break it in gently. The rototiller has scores of rusty dents on the case and that tells me he spent a few of those early hours wailing along dragging the tiller. In fact, the first thing he did was till his entire back yard to put in a vineyard. I bet that was in the first 5 hours on the clock... Fortunately, they were short rows of maybe 75 to 100 feet each.
I cannot imagine more stress in a tractor motor than dragging a tiller through 12 inches of wet soil on a river bank. My motor starts and runs just fine and doesn't smoke at all except after start-up and only for the first few cylinders. Checking the tires the other day with a face full of exhaust, I was amazed at how little "smell" I got out of the idling engine blowing in my face. The engine burns zero oil.
My cylinders have been "seasoned." I just hope my tranny and rear end got a chance to break in.
As has been mentioned, it has a lot to do with the type of tractor you have. HST's need slightly different break-in procedures than a gear drive does. The engine may be the same on both but the limiting factor will be the HST drive on those tractors. On the gear drives, you are worried about the engine and just varying the RPMs is a good thing, and staying away from top RPM for no more than a dozen or so seconds is a good idea until you are comfortable with the engine hours you have on it.
I'm most worried about how I'm using my tractor at the moment, a week or so of work, then months of nothing then back to work. I'm hoping this doesn't have a negative effect on the unit. I've got almost 20 hours on it doing this but I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
I'm most worried about how I'm using my tractor at the moment, a week or so of work, then months of nothing then back to work. I'm hoping this doesn't have a negative effect on the unit. I've got almost 20 hours on it doing this but I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
ShaunRH, you mentioned, "
I'm most worried about how I'm using my tractor at the moment, a week or so of work, then months of nothing then back to work. I'm hoping this doesn't have a negative effect on the unit. I've got almost 20 hours on it doing this but I guess I'll just have to wait and see."
A tractor is a machine that has no reference to time. It doesn't know a week from several months! You keep fluids correct, air pressures correct, maintenance as necessary, stored in suitable conditions, with less then stale fuel and you will not have problems with age of machine.
Case in point, I have an "85 B8200 with about 850 hours. I bought it with zero on the clock. That averages less then 30 hours per year. No problems what so ever.
I've got a '52 Cat, '66 Case, '78 Deutz, all with many hours on them. They all start, run fine, do their intended job.
Secret is, I never tell them how old they are!!
I'm most worried about how I'm using my tractor at the moment, a week or so of work, then months of nothing then back to work. I'm hoping this doesn't have a negative effect on the unit. I've got almost 20 hours on it doing this but I guess I'll just have to wait and see."
A tractor is a machine that has no reference to time. It doesn't know a week from several months! You keep fluids correct, air pressures correct, maintenance as necessary, stored in suitable conditions, with less then stale fuel and you will not have problems with age of machine.
Case in point, I have an "85 B8200 with about 850 hours. I bought it with zero on the clock. That averages less then 30 hours per year. No problems what so ever.
I've got a '52 Cat, '66 Case, '78 Deutz, all with many hours on them. They all start, run fine, do their intended job.
Secret is, I never tell them how old they are!!
I agree for most parts, but rubber seals, hoses, belts, and a few other parts are susceptible to time wear and vehicles that sit for long periods don't get oil washed up over their inner parts that are plastic/rubber/non-metal and wear due to atmospheric gases, etc. Then you start a low time vehicle and something breaks. The outside stuff isn't so bad, it's the internal stuff that makes me cry.ShaunRH, you mentioned, "
I'm most worried about how I'm using my tractor at the moment, a week or so of work, then months of nothing then back to work. I'm hoping this doesn't have a negative effect on the unit. I've got almost 20 hours on it doing this but I guess I'll just have to wait and see."
A tractor is a machine that has no reference to time. It doesn't know a week from several months! You keep fluids correct, air pressures correct, maintenance as necessary, stored in suitable conditions, with less then stale fuel and you will not have problems with age of machine.
Case in point, I have an "85 B8200 with about 850 hours. I bought it with zero on the clock. That averages less then 30 hours per year. No problems what so ever.
I've got a '52 Cat, '66 Case, '78 Deutz, all with many hours on them. They all start, run fine, do their intended job.
Secret is, I never tell them how old they are!!
Of course, this is why warranties are time and hour/mileage based, and I know what you're saying, but I just don't know much about Kubota's as a whole so I'm concerned about what I don't know. Thanks for the pep-talk, it does make me feel better about it.