In-ground Pool Utilities

[PorkBolt]

Hi All-
Finally got on the list for our inground pool installation this summer. That being said, I wanted to reach out to see if the following makes sense with regard to locating utilities around the pool. Here are my thoughts (feel free to add/be critical)

1. Running 1- 1/4" Gas line for the heater. Will likely tee-off 1/2" for fire feature located nearby. This will be buried in depth per code, etc.
2. In a separate trench, I plan to run two fresh water lines (softened hot/cold water) for outdoor shower/kitchen. I plan to run this in PEX inside of a dedicated PVC pipe (one for each PEX line) to prevent critters, etc. This is planned to have shut offs from the inside of the home as well as a shut-off/drain valve at the end of each line. Living in Northern Illinois i would plan on "blowing out" the lines each season to prevent freeze. Etc. I would place a valve with compressed air input in order to achieve this.
3. Same as number two but for well water (non-softened) for irrigation. This would be attached to frost hydrant for clean up around the pool.
4. 50-amp dedicated electrical feed for the pump with dedicated breaker in main panel and shut-off at pump per code. Will also run a separate 20-amp for lighting in pavillion, TV, etc. Both will be in dedicated underground conduit.
5. Compressed air line to pump area and another output for pool toys, season blow-out, etc. I figured this would help from going to shop for air, etc. and maintenance. Would tee off of main line in shop and pipe underground.


Thoughts on the above? Overkill/missing something? With regard to #5, I am struggling to figure out best way to run compressed air underground. My initial thought was the blue-aluminum flexible line inside of a PVC conduit? Galvanized pipe is awfully expensive and was looking for another option.

Thanks,

 

[Vlach7]

Depending on the CFM you're looking for, schedule 40 PVC, 1/2" or 3/4" will be fine, good for direct burial, anything exposed to sun use the grey electrical EMT. just put the needed adapters on the ends, don't need to make it complicated.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Hi All-
Finally got on the list for our inground pool installation this summer. That being said, I wanted to reach out to see if the following makes sense with regard to locating utilities around the pool. Here are my thoughts (feel free to add/be critical)

1. Running 1- 1/4" Gas line for the heater. Will likely tee-off 1/2" for fire feature located nearby. This will be buried in depth per code, etc.
2. In a separate trench, I plan to run two fresh water lines (softened hot/cold water) for outdoor shower/kitchen. I plan to run this in PEX inside of a dedicated PVC pipe (one for each PEX line) to prevent critters, etc. This is planned to have shut offs from the inside of the home as well as a shut-off/drain valve at the end of each line. Living in Northern Illinois i would plan on "blowing out" the lines each season to prevent freeze. Etc. I would place a valve with compressed air input in order to achieve this.
3. Same as number two but for well water (non-softened) for irrigation. This would be attached to frost hydrant for clean up around the pool.
4. 50-amp dedicated electrical feed for the pump with dedicated breaker in main panel and shut-off at pump per code. Will also run a separate 20-amp for lighting in pavillion, TV, etc. Both will be in dedicated underground conduit.
5. Compressed air line to pump area and another output for pool toys, season blow-out, etc. I figured this would help from going to shop for air, etc. and maintenance. Would tee off of main line in shop and pipe underground.


Thoughts on the above? Overkill/missing something? With regard to #5, I am struggling to figure out best way to run compressed air underground. My initial thought was the blue-aluminum flexible line inside of a PVC conduit? Galvanized pipe is awfully expensive and was looking for another option.

Thanks,

Just use PEX for the air line. It will handle the PSI perfectly fine.
I would even put a regulator feeding that line to drop it to like 15 PSI, might save a pool toy!
On every one of your electric lines use GFI breakers on the house side of the lines, not just the Pool equipment feed.

I was on a job doing a little remodel work, when we heard kids in the backyard screaming, the mom was on the pool deck having a seizure, but when the husband tried to grab her he go a huge shock, I ran to the electrical panel and threw the main.
Wife got up, EMS showed up and checked her out then hauled her to the ER.
She came out of it fine.
We started checking it all out, GFI on the Pool pump but no GFI on the line feeding some outlets and lights for the gazebo behind the pool.
Turns out when they built the pool a rebar was driven through the conduit for the wire and then when the ground around the pool got wet it now became conductive.
It never tripped the NON GFI breaker.
The electrical contractor said it kept tripping the GFI breaker so he just put a regular breaker on it, and that it wasn't a big deal, home owner was standing there when he said it and it took three big guys to stop him from killing the electrician!

You can get underground water shut off's that work like a frost free hydrant that will let the lines self bleed on winter shut off.
There is even a system out there that will shut the water lines off when the temp drops below a preset range.

 

[skeets]

Dayum,, and I thought we had the cat by the tail when we dammed up the creek, and kept beer in the spring!

 

[rc51stierhoff]

I’d buy another Kubota before I bought another pool. I do have an in ground pool, but I spend more time cleaning / paying for chemicals than I do using it….I know that not what OP meant when he asked for thoughts, but those are mine. That being said seems like OP has thought thru. I’d also make sure for the pump filter and such that you leave plenty of room to do maintenance around the ‘appliances’. It’s not too late to change your mind…just sayin’. Do the basic math on The annual cost of maintenance and upkeep (in theory increases enjoyment) vs tractor / skid steer payments (make life easier and can increase enjoyment) .

 

[GreensvilleJay]

You don't mention what the distance is from house to pool area but....

run 100% of the services in large diameter conduit, so you can add or replace, as needed

use quality air hose ( NOT PVC or PEX). I asume PVC would be glued sections..., PEX isn't offically rated for 155PSI ( or any air service according to the web. yes they pump 60PSI for testing and when pouring floors.

you could the 3 water lines and a rope in a 2" conduit

depending on 'code', you might be able to pull water,air and hydro in one, 4" conduit

run 2, CAT5/6 lines ,copper is always faster than air....
run COAX for TV.....

neighbour put 4 conduits down, 1 for 200A service in use, 1 for future 3ph power, 2 for TV/Cable/Fiber
he dug ONE trench NOW, instead of having to tear up,make a mess in the future to add 'something', in the end cheaper

 

[85Hokie]

I’d buy another Kubota before I bought another pool. I do have an in ground pool, but I spend more time cleaning / paying for chemicals than I do using it….

If it was NOT for my wife - I would fill my #$%#$$%@@##&^%^$%#$$ inground pool in with dirt and make the whole @#$%@#$%@$@#$ thing go away .......

I love the lake - ZERO maintenance on the WATER part!!!!!!!!!

I spend hours cleaning and backwashing and then when the summer ends,......... she wants it to stay open ONE MORE week ......... and yes I have #@$@#$# trees putting out more leaves than you can collect!!!

Ok - my rant is over

 

[rc51stierhoff]

If it was NOT for my wife - I would fill my #$%#$$%@@##&^%^$%#$$ inground pool in with dirt and make the whole @#$%@#$%@$@#$ thing go away .......

I love the lake - ZERO maintenance on the WATER part!!!!!!!!!

I spend hours cleaning and backwashing and then when the summer ends,......... she wants it to stay open ONE MORE week ......... and yes I have #@$@#$# trees putting out more leaves than you can collect!!!

Ok - my rant is over

I heard that. I would love to make mine a beautiful garden space…already high roller fence around to keep the deer out. I get two barns two tractors…spousal unit gets the pool. It’s what it is. It was here when we bought the place. I am telling you it would be better to take all the money spent, initial pay to play, maintnenence, chemicals, covers…all that shit, and just use that money to stay in nice hotels or spas or whatever, and you would never be able to spend it it all if you have a day job…and just use those pools a few times a year and enjoy the stay.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: I spend hours cleaning and backwashing

really ? I had an above 15' ground,got 22 years out of it till wall parted..., maybe 20 minutes every 3 days to 'maintain', friend has inground 20x30, same amount of labour. We both use chlorine pucks. He was a slave to his, until he finally listened to how I do it..now he has lots of free time.

 

[85Hokie]

re: I spend hours cleaning and backwashing

really ? I had an above 15' ground,got 22 years out of it till wall parted..., maybe 20 minutes every 3 days to 'maintain', friend has inground 20x30, same amount of labour. We both use chlorine pucks. He was a slave to his, until he finally listened to how I do it..now he has lots of free time.

Let me tell ya - the number of trees that are around this inground are so plentiful that sun .....yeah that big ass ball in the sky ONLY sees the water 6 hours a day .........

I see the pool like a human - little work here and there, it will be fine, ignore it a bit and life sucks!

Jay - once I get that mofo open and balanced ( I use 3" pucks too) it aint bad - but if I let it go a bit of time, hells bells!!!! PLUS - my wife WHO is a real smart lady ....... refuses to learn to backwash and rinse, 'cause it it "to complicated" ......... yeah - I know, I need to let it go and say "honey - fix it cause I am too busy!"

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yes there is a 'sequence'..to EASY pool maintenance...
1) first get the PH right..... which you do
2) filter, friend gets by with 4-6 hrs a day.
3) backwash once a week,for maybe 5-10 minutes,

he now has a fancy DC pump and computer,but the MORE you keep the water in motion, the less YOU have to do. He's down to 1 light pass a week.

I'd only backwash when pressure went from 12 (normal for me) got to 15, 5 minutes to backwash, but I'm only 3500 gallons of water(CDN gallons..). I also had solar panels for heating and made a controller to maximize the heat into pool.Got pool up to 104*F one week...ooopsy...

 

[85Hokie]

yes there is a 'sequence'..to EASY pool maintenance...
1) first get the PH right..... which you do
2) filter, friend gets by with 4-6 hrs a day.
3) backwash once a week,for maybe 5-10 minutes,

he now has a fancy DC pump and computer,but the MORE you keep the water in motion, the less YOU have to do. He's down to 1 light pass a week.

I'd only backwash when pressure went from 12 (normal for me) got to 15, 5 minutes to backwash, but I'm only 3500 gallons of water(CDN gallons..). I also had solar panels for heating and made a controller to maximize the heat into pool.Got pool up to 104*F one week...ooopsy...

Im jealous of your solar panels.!!!!!

I tried the ol bubble wrap (blue sun mat) and it worked well - right up to the point where the pool got so WARM that the algae took over the pool!!!! I never used that heat method again!!!

I have about 12k gallons - new liner 2 years ago .... new pump last year ....... my pool runs about 12 psi too - and like you backwash at 15+ ....... sometimes it will get to about 20 psi and stop what I am doing and get over there to BW. ONE year I could NOT understand wth the water would NOT clear up - all chemicals were correct........ took the mixing valve apart and found the ol O ring was toast. Local dealer said I had to order the entire assembly ....... F' that, AMAZON ...... 3 O rings - $10 - easy peasy.

THIS year - wife learns to backwash ..... or I need to get new ............

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Check you pump for the GPH spec, then divide 12,000 by that number,the answer is the HOURS it'd take to filter every drop of water but....that's not how it really works of course, it's 'blended' water ....

the panels would raise my pool 10*F on a solid sunny day. cut BASIC code to maximize the solar energy(lot of funny math..SIN,COS, YUK....). without heat (solar was cheapest ) pool was useless....

how to get others to backwash...
write instructions on a piece of paper, posted at the filter...
1) turn off pump
2) turn valve to backwash ( with 'clock' postion )
3) turn on pump for xx minutes
4) turn off pump
5) turn valve to rinse (with clock position)
6 )turn on pump for 2 minutes
7) turn off pump
8) turn valve to filter (with clock position )
9) turn on pump
10 ) go play.........

YOU do the steps, to be sure they're correct
then
have your new 'poolperson' do them do NOT say what to do, have them read and do....

THAT is the important part, letting them Do IT !, hands on. That way they'll understand HOW it's done.

 

[johnjk]

So figure what you really need outlets around the pool for. If it is just usb charging, I would go with a solar panel on the pool house and run low voltage usb plugs to strategic locations well up on the fence. Keep that a/c in the pool house away from splashing and wet feet.

 

[mike0000]

Sounds Pretty well thought out, we have had two above ground pools and 8 years ago installed an in ground pool. I may have missed it but are you going salt water? It’s the only way to go In my opinion. Once I open my pool and get it balanced I rarely have to do anything other than dropping in the robot maybe once a week. It runs for 3 hrs and even scrubs/ vacuums the walls. it was about $1200 for the robot but I’ll buy another one if/ when it fails. I’ll do a little lite hand skimming and empty the suction basket maybe once a week. Heavy rain may upset the water balance but not too big a deal. If I did it again I think I’d have two skimmers, one on each side. That would really keep the floating debris to a minimum.
Troublefreepool is a great source for pool help.

Mike

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Thoughts on the above? Overkill/missing something?

Sounds like doing it right, to me.

With regard to #5, I am struggling to figure out best way to run compressed air underground. My initial thought was the blue-aluminum flexible line inside of a PVC conduit? Galvanized pipe is awfully expensive and was looking for another option.

I just had to re-do my well lines, and while I was at it, I ran 250 PSI 3/4" HDPE pipe for my compressed air to a few places. The regular black poly pipe for water. Like this stuff.

But since my system runs at 125 PSI, I think there is plenty of headroom with 250 PSI pipe. It will not rot or rust, and since it's underground, I don't have to worry about it degrading from UV.

I'll use brass barbed fittings and double hose clamps to convert to regular pipe thread for the outlets.

CAVEAT: I have not run air in this yet, so this is experimental and unproven for me. However, I did a lot of research before deciding on this route, and found plenty of people saying they had this in place for years with no problem.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like doing it right, to me.





I just had to re-do my well lines, and while I was at it, I ran 250 PSI 3/4" HDPE pipe for my compressed air to a few places. The regular black poly pipe for water. Like this stuff.

But since my system runs at 125 PSI, I think there is plenty of headroom with 250 PSI pipe. It will not rot or rust, and since it's underground, I don't have to worry about it degrading from UV.

I'll use brass barbed fittings and double hose clamps to convert to regular pipe thread for the outlets.

CAVEAT: I have not run air in this yet, so this is experimental and unproven for me. However, I did a lot of research before deciding on this route, and found plenty of people saying they had this in place for years with no problem.

HDPE will not hold up to air with barbed fittings, I've tried, it expands and keeps expanding and stretching and then the fittings will leak or blow.
Get the water compression fittings and it will hold.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Get the water compression fittings and it will hold.

Like these?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Like these?

I normally use brass, but those look good!

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-205NL-1-Pack-Joint-CTS-x-MNPT-Coupling-T-4300NL-No-Lead-Bronze?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=shopping_neutral&utm_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_MPLTV&gclid=CjwKCAiA3pugBhAwEiwAWFzwdTvcV7xzTsIInT19K3kieg37-ZJ2SW-MgTy2-2fJQNCoF4JVqklGfBoC3VMQAvD_BwE

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Sounds Pretty well thought out, we have had two above ground pools and 8 years ago installed an in ground pool. I may have missed it but are you going salt water? It’s the only way to go In my opinion. Once I open my pool and get it balanced I rarely have to do anything other than dropping in the robot maybe once a week. It runs for 3 hrs and even scrubs/ vacuums the walls. it was about $1200 for the robot but I’ll buy another one if/ when it fails. I’ll do a little lite hand skimming and empty the suction basket maybe once a week. Heavy rain may upset the water balance but not too big a deal. If I did it again I think I’d have two skimmers, one on each side. That would really keep the floating debris to a minimum.
Troublefreepool is a great source for pool help.

Mike

What he / she said. If you can, go with saltwater.