I have to set some 8X8 posts

[William1]

I have a old bell, that used to be at my parents place.After forty years, the posts rotted and the bell came down and sat in their barn for years. Now it is my turn to have it at my house.
It has wrought iron mounts and the bell is dated 1859. It was on 8"x8" posts and sat about 6 and a half feet off of the ground.
My intention is to mount it the same. Due to the intended location, I'll be hand digging. I figure I need to go 3' down and put say 3"~6" of gravel at the bottom of my holes for drainage, the hole will be approximately a foot in diameter.
I've gotten some conflicting opinions about how to set the posts. Some said dirt, some said sand, tamped every few inches, others gravel, other dry cement and then water added and others still, wet concrete.
Obviously, if the sand/gravel/dirt is used and the posts fail, removal will be easy. What I do not want to happen is someone to lean against it (like me) and possibly push it off of true.

 

[Creature Meadow]

If I were in your situation I would do the following.

Dig the hole as you suggested and if the bottom is solid like here would be red clay then drop the pole on it a few times and and brace the pole up. Buy several bags of Quikrete. Mix this in a wheelbarrow and pour around post until it is a few inches from ground level. Recheck plumb and allow 24 hours to cure this time of year.

This should work for you. You want just enough water when mixing to allow it to flow in the hole when you put it in there. I use a big hoe with holes in it to mix mine then a shovel to transfer to the hole. I also get a 2x2 on hand to probe around in the hole to ensure the cement is distributed well.


Good luck and I am sure many others will weigh in on how they would do it, pick the method you like best.

Jay


(http://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-80-lb-Concrete-Mix-110180/100318511

 

[Tooljunkie]

There is a post setting foam out now, two part in a bag of sorts,pop the seal and mix the two components then pour it in. Expands and secures post.

 

[William1]

There is a post setting foam out now, two part in a bag of sorts,pop the seal and mix the two components then pour it in. Expands and secures post.

I'll have to locate that. Any idea of the lifespan?

 

[Daren Todd]

I've always just dry packed concrete in the holes. Especially in moist areas. Just get your post plumb, and have a helper pour the dry concrete in. Tamp it down, then pour some water on it. After a couple days, you would be surprised how hard it gets

 

[William1]

I've always just dry packed concrete in the holes. Especially in moist areas. Just get your post plumb, and have a helper pour the dry concrete in. Tamp it down, then pour some water on it. After a couple days, you would be surprised how hard it gets

Me=Helper
Yeah, that is one method. I'll not be in any rush to complete so if I go that route, the post can sit a week before I come along to screw it up and knock it out of plumb....
I just wonder how good a 'dry fit' is (sand/gravel/dirt)?

 

[Bmbbm]

When I worked for a sign company years ago all we did fill the holes with Quikrete make sure its plumb and tamp it down with a 2x4. No water or anything. I assume it just draws moisture from the ground and sets up. They built pole buildings around here the same way.

 

[Daren Todd]

Me=Helper
Yeah, that is one method. I'll not be in any rush to complete so if I go that route, the post can sit a week before I come along to screw it up and knock it out of plumb....
I just wonder how good a 'dry fit' is (sand/gravel/dirt)?

It doesn't take long for the concrete to harden when dry packed. Especially if water has been dumped on top afterword.

Years ago, I worked for a fence company. Back when my body could handle it Installed an aluminum fence for a structural engineer. You could imagine the fits he was having when we were dry packing the posts, screwing the next section on and dry packing the next post. Went through at the end of the day with a garden hose, and dumped water inside the posts. Slapped the covers on and left for the weekend. It was a Friday we installed the fence.

Went through Monday to install the gates and finish up. He asked us to pull one of the posts. Two of us prying up with a bar under one of the rails, and it wouldn't budge. Floored the engineer, he couldn't believe the concrete would set up that fast and quick

Used to dry pack gate posts on a wooden fence. The rest of the posts were just set in the soil at a depth of 3 to 4 feet, with the soil packed with a tamp bar.

 

[War Eagle]

I'll have to locate that. Any idea of the lifespan?

Look at these two video's to learn more about the foam set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yahHqaYI6xM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysNxHt3JSGo

 

[William1]

Look at these two video's to learn more about the foam set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yahHqaYI6xM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysNxHt3JSGo

LOL., I found some non-retailers giving consumer real life results. I was not impressed. I suppose if I worked with the stuff a lot, I'd master its' procedure for perfect results but from what I've found so far, concrete or simple dirt tamp has a higher rate of success. It seems the unpracticed has too great a chance of creating voids and therefore, no adhesion.
I might need to get some 12" (I only have 24" stuff here, way to big!) sono tube to make my concrete pretty a few inches (if I go that route) above grade and trowel to shed water away from the post to prevent rot.

 

[Russell King]

The concrete really does not make it that much stronger- you basically have a larger diameter set in the same dirt. It does make it faster since you don't have to tamp it so much.

I recommend you just put some gravel in the bottom, tamp down the dirt every few inches and then water it in as you go (if water is available)

Cheaper, easier to get plumb (tamping one side moves the post away) and will hold up well, no dirt to haul away


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[coachgeo]

Coat the bottom of the post to about 8" above the ground with cheap roll on truck bed liner. Get it on there pretty thick. Your great great great great grand kids will wonder how the thing is still standing with no rot in the wood.

 

[William1]

Thanks for the advice. The sealing of the post is a great idea. I've got posts set here (20+ years old) and many are showing some rot at ground level.
Right now, I am strongly tempted to seal the sides of the post up two inches above grade, leaving the end grain open to enable any moisture to exit, setting the post on a few inches of gravel and then dirt/tamp/wet/add 2" more inches, repeat.

 

[D2Cat]

Setting wood in concrete, I would drive some 20p nails or larger into the post on each side to help anchor it.

After the post is set, be sure the top of the concrete comes up a couple of inches at the post and tapers to ground level to shed water.

 

[DocHolladay]

I used to work for a sign company and install temporary signs for new developments and set small sign posts. We set a gate at our lease 2 weeks ago using the same technique....

1. Dig your hole and save any big rocks you find(golfball to baseball size) for later. Gravel will work if you don't have rocks
2. Set the post in the ground
3. Drop saved rocks in around it, tamp them in with a rock bar or 2x4 to the base(check level while doing this)
4. Dump concrete around the post tamping occasionally
5. Pour water on top, cover with dirt
6. Walk away

 

[Kurtee]

If I was setting wood posts in the ground I would auger the holes past the frost line and tamp tight with the dirt from the hole. The treated lumber today does not last so it will be easier to replace. If I wanted a more permanent mount I would auger holes past the frost line and use cardboard concrete forms (sona tubes?) and pour concrete to above ground level with anchors. Then I would build a steel frame for the bell and mount it like a sign is mounted to the concrete bases. Then I would secure the bell so it does not run off easily.

 

[scdeerslayer]

I've never used concrete with wood posts. The posts I've seen with concrete all seemed to have rotted much faster than ones without concrete.

 

[William1]

I've never used concrete with wood posts. The posts I've seen with concrete all seemed to have rotted much faster than ones without concrete.

I've seen that too but mostly with ones where the concrete is at or just below the dirt line.
Right now, I am bending toward 3'+ deep hole, gravel base for drainage, post, concrete wet mixed, with a short section of small sonotube on top to get the cement a few inches above grade (and 'finished looking') with the concrete troweled/tapered to shed water away from the pole.

 

[Russell King]

I believe concrete will speed rotting if the concrete gets under the post end and forms a cup that does not drain. That is eliminated if you put post in, a few inches of gravel up post, then pour concrete.


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