Hydraulic/Electric toplink for B2650 (w/o rear remotes)?

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 99181 Ok, I'm finally back on this. Weather has warmed enough to get me outside again.

I need to fully understand the connections that have to happen before I can start to visualize it and then order the other parts I'll need.

I drew a diagram to help me understand what connection goes where. I've arbitrarily named the 4 existing connections as ABCD. So, in normal circumstances with the backhoe removed, then I connect C to D and A to B. When the backhoe is attached, I connect A to D and C to B.

So, what I need to understand is how the N, T, and P connections on the valve enter into the equation. I could guess, but that'd be fruitless.

Thanks for any help.

Rob

View attachment 99181

C goes to P
N becomes your new C
T goes to tank on the tractor
The rest stays the same.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Thanks so much for the help.

Let's break this down, because I'm still not getting it. Let's start with "backhoe not attached". T goes back to tank, got that. But the valve should have a supply. I'm not seeing how the valve gets its supply.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks so much for the help.

Let's break this down, because I'm still not getting it. Let's start with "backhoe not attached". T goes back to tank, got that. But the valve should have a supply. I'm not seeing how the valve gets its supply.

Valve is fed by hose that previously fed back hoe. Power beyond port on new valve simply carries that over to backhoe.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Valve is fed by hose that previously fed back hoe. Power beyond port on new valve simply carries that over to backhoe.

Dan

Ok, does this look right in the "No backhoe attached" configuration? The hose that previously came from the tractor to the backhoe now gets permanently attached to N, and a new hose gets attached to P and has the male Ag connector on it. When I'm not using the backhoe, I connect that into the existing Female Ag B. T has a new permanent hose which connects to a splice somewhere I still haven't visually identified on the tractor.

 

[TheOldHokie]

View attachment 99190 Ok, does this look right in the "No backhoe attached" configuration? The hose that previously came from the tractor to the backhoe now gets permanently attached to N, and a new hose gets attached to P and has the male Ag connector on it. When I'm not using the backhoe, I connect that into the existing Female Ag B. T has a new permanent hose which connects to a splice somewhere I still haven't visually identified on the tractor.
View attachment 99189

I had to go look at the BH77 manual and edit this to get the tractor side connections straight. You have the flow correct but the permanent connection is wrong.

The connection that previously fed the backhoe gets permanently attached to P port on new valve.
That is the female quick connect on the frame of the tractor. That quick connect is removed and that hose/tube is permanently connected to the P port on the valve. It is now permanently feeding the valve.

N is pressure OUT from the valve and becomes the new quick connect feed to the backhoe.
N gets the female quick connect that was removed from the frame of the tractor and becomes the new pressure OUT connection to the backhoe. N is just an extension of P.

Thats all you need to keep straight. Everything else about the backhoe plumbing stays the same. When the backhoe is disconnected N gets looped back to the tractor return using the tractor side male quick connect and long hose just as before.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

I thought I'd post this picture to show where the hose from the tractor is coming from. I bought this tractor used, so there's no particular proof that the backhoe hydraulics were installed at the factory.



The hose with the male Ag connector is connected to the top of the, what, transmission? I'm *pretty* sure from looking at manuals on installing the BH77 that this is indeed the "power beyond" for the B2650.

I'm just trying to follow the pressure. So, if that's the power beyond, then the hose from the tractor with the male Ag connector is supplying the pressure, and everything else is a return.

So for the valve then, the pressure enters the valve at P? T is a tank return. And N is my new hose connection for powering the backhoe?

I've seen this show up when I got my valve from summit.

Power Beyond Adapter Sleeve for P40G Series Summit Monoblock Valves

FREE SHIPPING Power Beyond Adapter Sleeve for P40G Series Summit Monoblock Valves

summit-hydraulics.com

It says I need it when I'm using a valve downstream from this monoblock valve. Well, if I've connected the backhoe, then that counts as a valve downstream, wouldn't it? So would I need this as well?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I thought I'd post this picture to show where the hose from the tractor is coming from. I bought this tractor used, so there's no particular proof that the backhoe hydraulics were installed at the factory.


View attachment 99203
The hose with the male Ag connector is connected to the top of the, what, transmission? I'm *pretty* sure from looking at manuals on installing the BH77 that this is indeed the "power beyond" for the B2650.

I'm just trying to follow the pressure. So, if that's the power beyond, then the hose from the tractor with the male Ag connector is supplying the pressure, and everything else is a return.

So for the valve then, the pressure enters the valve at P? T is a tank return. And N is my new hose connection for powering the backhoe?

I've seen this show up when I got my valve from summit.

Power Beyond Adapter Sleeve for P40G Series Summit Monoblock Valves

FREE SHIPPING Power Beyond Adapter Sleeve for P40G Series Summit Monoblock Valves

summit-hydraulics.com

It says I need it when I'm using a valve downstream from this monoblock valve. Well, if I've connected the backhoe, then that counts as a valve downstream, wouldn't it? So would I need this as well?

Your tractor is plumbed properly. Kubota and many others throw the term "power beyond" around in a confusing and contradictory fashion. They fail to distinguish "from" and "to" in those references.

The female coupler is the power beyond FROM the tractor TO the backhoe. The hose and male connector is yhe power beypnd FROM the implement TO the tractor. See how that gets muddled and confuding?

The female coupler supplies pump pressure to the implement. This goes to P which is pressure in on the implement valve.

The hose and male connector return pump pressure to the tractots 3pt. This goes to the power beyond OUT (N port) on the implement valve.

You can double check that. Where does the long hose and male quick connect go on the backhoe control valve? If it goes to IN or P that is power beyond from the tractor. If it goes to tank that is power beyond back to the tractor. I have posted the parts diagram for the kit used on your tractor below.

Its really just that simple and yes yiou must have the power beyond sleeve for your new valve. It gets installed in the N port of the valve.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Geez, took me FOREVER to find this, and it makes the valve all clear, and where the power beyond adapter goes. So the valve I understand now. I'm working on understanding the other parts, and yes, I agree...it can be confusing. I hadn't known that "power beyond" could be a supply or a return.


The diagram of the backhoe control valve helps and I'm going to see what is physically connected to where.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Geez, took me FOREVER to find this, and it makes the valve all clear, and where the power beyond adapter goes. So the valve I understand now. I'm working on understanding the other parts, and yes, I agree...it can be confusing. I hadn't known that "power beyond" could be a supply or a return.
View attachment 99213

The diagram of the backhoe control valve helps and I'm going to see what is physically connected to where.

In my NSHO the only port that should ever be called power beyond is the supply port. The other end should be called pressure return or something similar.

I almost posted that Summit diagram. All you need to do is determine which of the two connections on the back of the tractor is the tractor side SUPPPLY for the backhoe. That is the one that goes to the P port on the Summit valve. i just got home and I will see if I can find the BH77 installation instructions for your particular tractor.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

OK - I found the B2650 installation instructions - here is teh diagram. You had it right in your earlier diageam.

The hose with female coupler (4 in the diagram) is pressure return to the tractor 3pt. You do not need to to anything with it.

The steel pipe with male coupler (2 in the diagram) is pressure OUT from the power beyond port of the loader valve. You want to remove the male coupler from the tractor and connect that steel pipe (2) on the tractor and connect it to the P port on the Summit valve. Then put the male quick connect on the N port of the Summit valve. Use hoses as appropriate.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Thanks for that diagram. It doesn't quite match with what I've got, but I may know why.

So I followed the female connector on the tractor, where the male hose from the backhoe plugs in, and it was tough to follow it because it gets lumped in with a bunch of other hoses, but I BELIEVE that it is the green-circled connector. That lump of stuff goes to my 3rd function on the front of the tractor. Would it make sense that supply pressure for the backhoe would be coming from there?



That female connector on the tractor attaches to the hose and male connector on the backhoe, and THAT goes to B on the backhoe hydraulic valve. I could not see any markings on the valve body itself to see what that port was for. But then it comes out of A to the female connector on the backhoe. That connects to the hose and male connector from the tractor, and THAT hose goes to here:


So... if pressure leaves the loader block (1) and goes to my 3rd function valve, and from THERE leaves to the female connector on the back of the tractor, then that is for sure pressure for the backhoe. And then it comes back to the tractor via the hose at 4, and then disappears from view going up at 3. If, in the hidden part, it connects to the top of the block as in the picture above, then that is for sure the return.

Does that sound right?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for that diagram. It doesn't quite match with what I've got, but I may know why.

So I followed the female connector on the tractor, where the male hose from the backhoe plugs in, and it was tough to follow it because it gets lumped in with a bunch of other hoses, but I BELIEVE that it is the green-circled connector. That lump of stuff goes to my 3rd function on the front of the tractor. Would it make sense that supply pressure for the backhoe would be coming from there?

View attachment 99219

That female connector on the tractor attaches to the hose and male connector on the backhoe, and THAT goes to B on the backhoe hydraulic valve. I could not see any markings on the valve body itself to see what that port was for. But then it comes out of A to the female connector on the backhoe. That connects to the hose and male connector from the tractor, and THAT hose goes to here:
View attachment 99221

So... if pressure leaves the loader block (1) and goes to my 3rd function valve, and from THERE leaves to the female connector on the back of the tractor, then that is for sure pressure for the backhoe. And then it comes back to the tractor via the hose at 4, and then disappears from view going up at 3. If, in the hidden part, it connects to the top of the block as in the picture above, then that is for sure the return.

Does that sound right?

That was a bit too much to follow but in general yes. The backhoe supply could easily come from third function - that is a common plumbing scheme. The third function is typically fed by the loader valve. The order of the valves in the power beyond "daisy chain" is not really important.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Ok then, so THIS is where we're at now:

When backhoe is not in use, then male connects to female on the tractor. And when backhoe is being used, then male-to-female connections between tractor and backhoe. Do I finally have it? Thanks so much for the patience because this is a lot different than I had originally thought it would be plumbed.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok then, so THIS is where we're at now:

View attachment 99231

When backhoe is not in use, then male connects to female on the tractor. And when backhoe is being used, then male-to-female connections between tractor and backhoe. Do I finally have it? Thanks so much for the patience because this is a lot different than I had originally thought it would be plumbed.

Its right if B is the backhoe supply. Here is my earlier diagram which might be a little more concise. Top is originsl connections and bottom is after adding the valve.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Its right if B is the backhoe supply. Here is my earlier diagram which might be a little more concise. Top is originsl connections and bottom is after adding the valve.

Dan

Right, where PB is "N" on the valve with the PB adapter, right? Then yes, we're saying the same thing.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Right, where PB is "N" on the valve with the PB adapter, right? Then yes, we're saying the same thing.

N = neutral
PB = power beyond
HPCO = high pressure carry over

Different terms you will see/hear for the same thing - e.g. the pressure supply for connecting to a downstrram device.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Ok then, I think there are 2 more things that have to get nailed down before I can start trying to understand all those part numbers you provided in that spreadsheet....
1) Can you guide me towards where that hose is you said I should splice the T line into? I need to make sure I can find it and get a feel for how hard that's going to be to do. I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for or where, based on that diagram you posted.
2) I'm debating where to place the valve, though under the seat seems like the most likely spot. I'm also debating if I want to orient it with handles forwards or backwards. I think handles forward will make routing the hydraulic hoses a lot easier, but I found that handles backwards was a lot easier to access, as I'll most likely be turned backwards anyway when using them.

Turning the seat around in "backhoe" mode, I did not see any issues with clearance, and the handles would not be in the way. Anyone have some thoughts on that, or maybe something I'm not considering?

Rob

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok then, I think there are 2 more things that have to get nailed down before I can start trying to understand all those part numbers you provided in that spreadsheet....
1) Can you guide me towards where that hose is you said I should splice the T line into? I need to make sure I can find it and get a feel for how hard that's going to be to do. I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for or where, based on that diagram you posted.
2) I'm debating where to place the valve, though under the seat seems like the most likely spot. I'm also debating if I want to orient it with handles forwards or backwards. I think handles forward will make routing the hydraulic hoses a lot easier, but I found that handles backwards was a lot easier to access, as I'll most likely be turned backwards anyway when using them.
View attachment 99252
Turning the seat around in "backhoe" mode, I did not see any issues with clearance, and the handles would not be in the way. Anyone have some thoughts on that, or maybe something I'm not considering?

Rob

I suggested a tee in the tank return on the loader valve. Short formed hose going into right side of transmission. Probably tight quarters in there. Transmission filler would be anothet possibility.

Dan

 

[BetterThanAShovel]

Ok, so if I can find the loader valve and identify its tank return port, then follow that hose and see if there's a place to break into it?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok, so if I can find the loader valve and identify its tank return port, then follow that hose and see if there's a place to break into it?

The tank return will be obvious - look at the parts diagram. Its a low pressure molded hose - should be easy to cut it in half and insert a tee.

Dan