Hydraulic Chute?

[keithcoady]

Hi new guy here from Nova Scotia Canada. I recently purchased a 2006 B7800 and have a 60inch plow, blower, and mid mowing deck.

The plow came with the joy stick and hydraulics plumbed and the blower (3 point) came with an electric winch operated chute for turning.

I'm interested in changing from the electric chute turning set up to a hydraulic set up. Just curious how to go about this and what would be the best bang for the buck.

Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Depends on how the original setup for rotation is done.
The smoothest is a hydraulic motor to run the chute.
Then a ram and some linkage, chain, or cable to link it.

 

[keithcoady]

thanks wolfman

the original was a hand crank, the previous owner has installed a super winch with a #60 chain and a toggle switch to turn the chute and it works great but dims my led lights big time. for now i just turn them off, turn the chute and turn them back on,

this is why i was considering changing to hydraulic set up but with my joystick already plumbed for the front plow and joystick what do i need to plumb this for the rear?

sorry for the newbie questions but want to do this right if i'm going to do it

thanks, great forum by the way - love it, so much info can be reading for months

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If your using the front at the same time you want to run the rear you will need to add another valve in order to separately control the blower.

 

[Yooper]

You also might think of a bigger battery or running two batteries in parallel. Might be your best bang for the buck. Hydraulic motor, control valve, hoses and fittings, going to be several hundred dollars real fast. Something to think about.

 

[torch]

the original was a hand crank, the previous owner has installed a super winch with a #60 chain and a toggle switch to turn the chute and it works great but dims my led lights big time. for now i just turn them off, turn the chute and turn them back on,

Superwinch? That does seem like overkill! Given that you already have the electrics in place, you might want to stay electric. A couple of us have converted hand crank chutes to electric using power window motors.

tcrote has an excellent write-up here:

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27261

I started to try something similar with a servo motor, but found it wasn't powerful enough. So I followed tcrote's lead with the window motor. However, the one I got had a plastic output gear, so rather than his socket solution, I modified his design a bit as shown in my own starting thread here:

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=208228&postcount=33

One advantage about staying electric -- you can add a linear actuator for chute deflection pretty cheap. I would bet you could do both electric rotation and chute deflection for less than the cost of the hydraulic spool valves, saving the cost of cylinders, hoses, etc.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm wondering if it's dimming the lights, where is it hooked to?
Might be a case of just needing a better feed wire strait from the battery.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

I'm wondering if it's dimming the lights, where is it hooked to?
Might be a case of just needing a better feed wire strait from the battery.

This statement is the closest to the truth that we are going to get. The winch motor is looking for high current. It should be wired up in this fashion (excuse the limitations of a pure text posting!)

Battery + -->in-line current limiter --> direction control device (switch)-->winch motor

I use this setup on my MF135 Diesel which is equipped with a generator, so it's a low-output device, much like the Kubota dynamos. I get no dimming of lights when wired as shown above.

Also - this is a BIG consideration... Check your battery ground connection to the frame, and the ground connection you are using for the winch - they must be very close together on the trator, if not the same point.

The winch (whether it's the Superwinch brand or some other) is likely a light-duty unit, probably something like the 2000lb units rated for intermittent duty on ATV's and the like. If this is the case, you'll be far better off fixing the electrical connections then going through all the pain and expense of a hydraulic solution.

BTW, I have 3 snowblowers on 3 tractors... The MF135 uses a winch to rotate the discharge chute, the B7200 uses a hand crank, and the B7510 uses a hydraulic motor. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and, in each case, they are the right solution for that particular tractor.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Don't they make an alternator kit for that model tractor? That may help with the power issue.

 

[keithcoady]

Wow! thanks so much for the replies, great suggestions all of which prompt more questions from me (sorry)

Enough suggestions there to make me stay with the electric chute option so now to get it wired so it doesn't dim the lights.

Yooper - So any suggestions on how much bigger a battery as I think the one that's in there is getting weak. I'm in nova scotia Canada so cold cranking amps are probably going to have to be around 850 from what I've read so far.

NoJacket - what is an inline current limiter? and now I'm just wondering if he had connected the lights to the same circuit as the winch - at least it would make sense when the lights are dimming.

old English - alternator has already been upgraded.

wolfman - not sure where he's got the existing wires connected I'll have to check so in any case I should run the positive feed directly from the battery to the switch - correct? And also to check the grounds from the battery to the winch.

And does anyone know why I'm not getting any email notifications when someone replies to my post?

Thanks again for the suggestions it is greatly appreciated - awesome forum you have here.

 

[keithcoady]

Found the email notification option

 

[torch]

And does anyone know why I'm not getting any email notifications when someone replies to my post?

For some reason, this board has the default set to no notifications. To change your default preference, select "User CP" then "Edit Options" and set your "Default Thread Subscription Mode". You will have to subscribe to this particular thread manually by selecting the desired option under "Thread Subscription", below (when replying) or "Thread Tools", above (when reading).

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

wolfman - not sure where he's got the existing wires connected I'll have to check so in any case I should run the positive feed directly from the battery to the switch - correct? And also to check the grounds from the battery to the winch.

And does anyone know why I'm not getting any email notifications when someone replies to my post?

Yes run a good size wire from positive to an inline fuse (30 amp) then wire to the back to the winch controls, and yes check for a good ground too.

On the black bar above this post will be User CP, go there and subscribe to the thread to get email notications, also double check your email address, and look in junk folders as they end up there too.

 

[Yooper]

Before investing in a new battery, I would take NIW advice on wiring. I'll add one more thing, and that is make sure the toggle switch can handle the amperage of the winch motor.

 

[keithcoady]

Thanks yooper, yeah the switch looks pretty beefy for sure. Gonna run the wires to the battery and make sure they're not on the same wires as the lights.

The battery is fine when the machine is running but I'm pretty sure the guy I bought it from had a heated garage and I don't. Tractor turns over pretty slow after sitting overnight or for a few days. Runs fine though but I'm thinking once it gets colder it may get hard to start

Kubotas battery is 450 CCA but I've seen it recommended for 800 to 1000 CCA's for colder climates - any suggestions?

Thanks again,

Keith

 

[Yooper]

I think you're on the right track. If the tractor is living outside in cold climate, more cca is your friend. As far as a brand of battery, can't help you much there. After market replacement batteries are a crapshoot. Bought the same brand that was in my lawn tractor that lasted five years, and that one only made it two.

 

[torch]

How cold is cold? A battery blanket can help a lot. I have them on all my vehicles and plug them in whenever it's cold enough to plug in the block heaters.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Keith - the one recommendation I can easily make for a battery is NOT CANADIAN TIRE. If you install one of their batteries in your tractor you have no warranty. They only warranty batteries installed in cars, and powersport batteries installed in powersport equipment. For those of us wanting a tractor battery, we must look elsewhere.

Speaking of elsewhere, if you have a local Case farm equipment dealership, get your battery from them. I have had truly outstanding service from Case-branded batteries. They aren't necessarily the cheapest, but also are only marginally more expensive than the same size from Canadian Tire, plus they carry a warranty. They also pay significant $$ core charge, so make sure you take in an old battery. Higher core rebates apply to "same brand" batteries. My last Case battery lasted 8 years. Took it into the dealer and exchanged it for a new one. Checked my invoices and found the new one cost only $5 more than the one purchased 8 years ago!

Batteries in our temperatures take a real beating. Count on replacing every 6 years at the most. Most OEM car batteries will make 6 winters but not the 7th. In that respect you can almost set your watch by Honda batteries.

 

[keithcoady]

thanks for the replies guys - here's an update with unfortunately more questions - I'm stumped!

Got a new battery and made a huge difference. The chute rotation blew a fuse and replacing the fuse just blew another.

So I started checking wires and checked grounds, etc. and everything looked good.

I disconnected the wiring from the tractor to the winch and took the old battery and tested the winch with the wires coming off the winch directly to the battery - it worked BUT when I reconnect the wires it still blows the fuse so I'm thinking a dead short somewhere.

So I bypassed all of the wiring going to the winch and ran two new 12 gauge wires both directly to the new battery in the tractor. I installed a 30 amp fuse in an inline fuse which is within 8 inches of wire from the positive post.

I ran another 12 gauge wire and connected it directly to the negative post.

Installed the 30 amp fuse and left only one wire connected to the winch. Then took the remaining wire and touched it to the other wire coming from the battery.

It immediately blew the fuse I checked and double checked all the wiring and can't find anything but I have to be missing something.

I don't have the wires ran anywhere they are just dangling running from the battery directly back to the winch. I took the switch out of the equation as well in case it had a problem.

So what gives? Two wires - one from the positive with inline 30amp fuse and the other from the negative side of the battery. Both run directly to the winch with only one wire connected to the winch. The other is left free so I can touch the two wires together to try it.

Should this not work if it works with the old battery on the floor?

Battery is a heavy duty battery from Kubota made for the tractor model.

Sorry for the novel but I'm beyond stumped at this point.

Keith

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm afraid I lead you astray with the 30 amp fuse.
I was thinking of a solenoid circuit.
That style of winch pulls upwards of around 200 amps when loaded.
It needs to have a much heavier wire than #12 more like something like a #2 wire to run it.