It seems the tractor I am looking at is available in either a hydrostat, or shuttle-shift gear drive. (L4802). The tractor will mostly be used for pasture mowing, with occasional tilling, grading driveways, pasture fertilizing (PTO spreader) and moving around round bales and other heavy objects. I am very accustomed to driving a "gear drive" tractor, along with many other forms of heavy equipment. I am thinking of just getting the shuttle-shift, since I already know how to operate it efficiently, the long hours of mowing at a constant speed, and the gear drive's inherent durability over the hydro. Does anyone have any suggestions as to why a hydro would be an advantage over a gear drive? I'm just looking for some wisdom that I might not have.
HST vs Shuttle Shift
- Thread starter Sparky Prep
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North Idaho Wolfman
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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
HST beat the snot out of Geared for Loader work.
With the new cruise control systems doing long runs is not an issue.
There is about the same durability with either geared or HST these days.
In fact very uncommon to hear of an HST failing.
With the new cruise control systems doing long runs is not an issue.
There is about the same durability with either geared or HST these days.
In fact very uncommon to hear of an HST failing.
NCL4701
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L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
I have run both, and gear without shuttle.
There’s very little you can do with one that you just flat can’t do with the other. I do have a stump grinder that requires HST but that’s the only thing I know of you absolutely must have one or the other to do.
HST is great for jobs that require a lot of back/forward: forklift, loader, mowing tight areas, some grading, etc. It also excels at fine control with power; much better than feathering the clutch if doing it routinely. Cruise control helps with constant speed over longer distances. Ground speed isn’t directly tied to engine RPM. Can be useful for driving quite slowly while maintaining 540 PTO RPM for some tilling type operations (or stump grinding).
Gear/shuttle is going to give you more efficient power transfer. If you’re setting a speed and going the same direction most of the time, the advantages of the HST become moot.
If I was doing a lot of loader/grapple work, I’d prefer HST. If I was dropping a disc harrow and driving half a mile to the other side of a field, I’d prefer gear. And that’s what it ends up boiling down to IMO: operator preference.
There’s very little you can do with one that you just flat can’t do with the other. I do have a stump grinder that requires HST but that’s the only thing I know of you absolutely must have one or the other to do.
HST is great for jobs that require a lot of back/forward: forklift, loader, mowing tight areas, some grading, etc. It also excels at fine control with power; much better than feathering the clutch if doing it routinely. Cruise control helps with constant speed over longer distances. Ground speed isn’t directly tied to engine RPM. Can be useful for driving quite slowly while maintaining 540 PTO RPM for some tilling type operations (or stump grinding).
Gear/shuttle is going to give you more efficient power transfer. If you’re setting a speed and going the same direction most of the time, the advantages of the HST become moot.
If I was doing a lot of loader/grapple work, I’d prefer HST. If I was dropping a disc harrow and driving half a mile to the other side of a field, I’d prefer gear. And that’s what it ends up boiling down to IMO: operator preference.
I have a tractor with hydraulic shuttle and the only time I wish I had a hydrostatic is for precisely inserting forks into a pallet and other precise movements. Other than that I love the hydraulic shuttle.
Good day. I think it comes down to what you and the other users (if there are any) may prefer for your tasks. Personally I think geared is better if you plan to use for heavy hauling/pulling. (In that application better to me means less likely to bog it down do to HST soaking up the power). What I’d also say the HST is safer in that it’s quicker to stop and exit out of an emergency situation. Going up and down hills I would think HST would be safer but there is also the aspect of loss of felt power with the hills with an HST. To me I think the finesse usage in and around building fences etc and the loader work is where HST has a bit of an edge beyond the safety factor.
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jyoutz
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Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
For a larger HST tractor, loss of power isn’t typically a concern. I lose some hp on my 60 hp tractor, but pto hp is still plenty sufficient for anything I need it for.
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I generally agree…I’ve not had any issue with MX either (I have not worked it as hard either compared to the capability), but I am also not using as much of the capability of it as I do with my B….the B struggles at time under heavy load / hills…and I think a lot of that is the HST….I guess argument could be made it’s not enough power for my application but I think in heavy load uses a geared would be better.
mcmxi
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***Current*** M6060HDC, MX6000HSTC & GL7000 ***Sold*** MX6000HST & BX25DLB
I really like driving the M6060, but as many have said, there's a lot less skill or finesse required to creep up on stuff with an HST which my MX has. I have to feather the clutch when hooking up to implements, not so much going into a dirt pile. Snow removal with the M6060 would be more involved when running the blower. I'd want to drop the revs on the PTO before moving the shuttle back and forth, but not a big deal.
Pulling the Land Pride 7ft rotary cutter around my field is way better with the M6060, for a number of reasons, the transmission being one of them.
I have a MX6000 HST and in that size tractor or smaller I wouldn't have anything but a HST. I use mine fairly heavy. I probably put 100 hours on it this summer running a 7 FT type bush hog in heavy mowing and put several hundred hours on it this last year with a two hundred gallon sprayers on it and I road it a lot to other farms. I have bigger row crop tractors with power reversers, power shifts and other types of transmissions but I really like the HST in the Kubota.
I'm a recent convert to the church of the HST. Given your listed uses, gear drive is probably fine (I've never owned a shuttle-shift). The HST really excels at fine control (e.g. backing the snowblower right up to the barn when clearing the yard). It also excels when you want to keep the PTO speed constant while varying your travel speed. I've almost got the "snow fence" thing figured out, but when I moved snow last night I had some drifts over a foot and some parts of the driveway had only 2-3 inches. This was problematic with my gear drive tractors. Also, since we've gotten so much snow already (normally comes in Feb and March) I decided to enlarge my cleared area last night. This involved going parallel to the fence that I'd blown last years snow up against and blowing it over the fence. This was 2-3 feet of snow and frozen chunks. I would not have even attempted this with my previous 70-pto hp tractor--my lowest reverse gear was way to fast to do this without slipping the clutch much more than I would be comfortable with. The HST made short work of it even with <50 claimed PTO hp--just keep pto between 500-545 and ease into it as slow as I needed to.
Again, for the listed uses geardrive may even be better, but if there's a chance you might want to creep up on things or run at full rpms while controlling the speed then HST is what I would pick.
Again, for the listed uses geardrive may even be better, but if there's a chance you might want to creep up on things or run at full rpms while controlling the speed then HST is what I would pick.
The HST will be easier to sell down the road and perhaps bring a better price due to their desirability . Most of the smaller tractors are sold with HST transmissions today. Once you try it most wouldn't consider a gear driven unit. Its very easy to use and I feel safer to operate. Good luck.
Well, you guys convinced me. I'm going with the HST. It will make it easier for the wife to drive, as well as the new son-in-law, since he has never driven a tractor before, but wants to learn. Went to my local Kubota dealership yesterday. L4802 won't be available to order until April. (sigh) The waiting game begins......
My daughter drove all of the old, gear drive, tractors and sneers a bit at the "automatic". Kid will probably be going off to college next year, but I'm not going to let my wife even know it's an option.
I am a gear drive guy. I test drove HST in a few brands and purchased the L4701DT gear. I do not regret it. My uses are basically identical to yours from your opening post, except I would classify my tilling as regular more so than occasional.
I was able to get my 10 yr old son taught and he now operates the tractor just fine, so I think inexperienced users can learn. He's not doing the same degree of tasks as I am in terms of slopes or speed, but that's to be expected.
I was able to get my 10 yr old son taught and he now operates the tractor just fine, so I think inexperienced users can learn. He's not doing the same degree of tasks as I am in terms of slopes or speed, but that's to be expected.
I own a gear drive, glide shift, and hydro. If I were in your shoes given what you're looking at doing, I'd go with a glide shift/shuttle. They shine when it comes to mowing/tilling and long runs with pto use. They don't have the power loss you'd see with the hydro, so therefore they are more efficient and consume less fuel.
If you think you might put a loader on it in the future, then HST is absolutely the way to go. HST is second to none when it comes to loader work.
The good ole gear drive is great for grunt power and general putzing around. Oddly enough, I feel most comfortable on the gear drive. Probably because it's resembles driving a vehicle more than the other two.
If you think you might put a loader on it in the future, then HST is absolutely the way to go. HST is second to none when it comes to loader work.
The good ole gear drive is great for grunt power and general putzing around. Oddly enough, I feel most comfortable on the gear drive. Probably because it's resembles driving a vehicle more than the other two.
jyoutz
Well-known member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
Cruise control on HST machines have addressed the reason why people used to not recommend them for mowing. Power is easily addressed: buy a large enough tractor with sufficient HP and don’t worry about losing 5 hp to the transmission.
One recommendation I would make is to get a demo of the machine on your property if possible. Not all HST's are equal, I tried the HST NH and found it struggled going up hills without any load. I went with the EHSS because it had no trouble pulling on hills. I was always leery of HST on CUT's. Surprisingly my M59 seems to have more grunt for loader work than my EHSS ever did.