HST vs. gear

[Telkwa]

We've got a 60+ year old Ford 600. I'm thinking about getting a tractor built in this century. Dealer has an L3011 HST but not the gear version. I'm inclined to go gear just because it's simpler, more energy efficient, what I'm used to, etc.

I'm confused by a comment about HST that pops up in various threads. Lots of guys say HST is best for mowing. I don't get it. When people say this, do they mean "with cruise control"?

'Cause I don't see how having to hold your foot down on the pedal is superior. With our ancient Ford I set the throttle by hand and my foot is free to move about the cabin.

I apologize if I'm missing something really obvious. Field mowing is my biggest tractor chore so I don't want to make the wrong choice.

 

[Daren Todd]

A lot of people on the site mow there yards with them. They are handy for tight places and loader work. Where it's handy to have precise control over direction and speed.

Personally, I prefer gear driven, and even with loader work, I never had an issue. Now it would be handy to have a hydrostatic when I do the perimeter of my yard with the finish mower

 

[sheepfarmer]

I went from a Ford 8N 1950 to the L3560 HST. So I appreciate how you might feel, I am still looking for the clutch with my left foot. I don't know which models have which features, but mine does have cruise control. If it has autothrottle on, the speed and the rpm go up in proportion to foot pressure like a car. Or you can choose a kind of manual throttle where the hand throttle determines rpm and maximum speed. I mostly just use the loader so someone else would have comment on controlling pto for mowing.

 

[Dieselbob]

If you are just mowing, and big areas at that, it probably doesn't make too much difference. If you think you might do other kinds of work with it (especially loader work), I wouldn't touch a gear drive with a ten foot pole.

 

[OldeEnglish]

I don't have anything to compare to an L series but I do a lot of mowing on 7 acres with a B2910 HST. It definitely comes in handy if you have a lot of obstructions to mow around and different terrain to adjust speed to. The petal is easy to push and I find the Middle speed to be the most useful. If your mowing wide open fields, cruise control on an HST would be spectacular. Using the FEL with it is a breeze and I think would cause less wear and tear than a gear drive would using a FEL. Having HST works great for PTO powered attachments like a bush hog or blower if you need to back into something at different speeds and stopping while needing the PTO to spin.

I too like gear driven equipment and I think would be preferred for mowing wide open fields. They give you plenty of gears to find the right speed. My 7100 is gear drive and is not a huge deal shifting gears for plowing snow, and I regularly have to go from forward to reverse. Sure a HST would work better for me, but it is nice letting out the clutch and going. Happy Hunting!

 

[RIDETOEAT]

I have always had gear tractors on this size stuff but HST on smaller mowers, never had a problem with one yet and the convenience of it is so nice. I just last month bought my new Kubota and choose HST this time and have only used it 30 minutes but I am pretty sure it is going to be great, all loader work so far.

 

[Retired Iron Peddler]

I purchased a new Kubota L3830GST in 2006 and put over 1,300 hours on it. I always thought I wanted a gear drive tractor for mowing and drawbar work . Last spring, I traded it for a new L5460HSTC and what a difference! I wasn't a fan of HST until I purchased this tractor. I mow pasture with a rotary mower, run a finish mower over parts of our large yard, do loader work with a grapple, and spray pasture with a 100 gallon 3-point hitch mounted sprayer. The variable speed of the HST has worked great for the jobs I do with my tractor. I use Cruise Control when mowing pasture, but on most of the other work, I use my foot on the Forward-Reverse pedal. When spraying pasture, there wasn't a good speed available with the gear drive when using the PTO powered pump and combining the ground speed to maintain the necessary speed to maintain an accurate coverage necessary when using herbicides. I haven't missed the gear drive tractor!

Bill

 

[bcbull378]

I have a Grand L3830 HST and love the tractor ,as a kid I grew up on Caterpillar crawlers and the old Ford, M/H, M/F the green tractors all gear drive. I had reservations about the HST but I'm here to tell you it's a dream to work with useing the front loader , mowing, discing and many other draw bar chores you'll love the HST I do .......Dan

 

[85Hokie]

We've got a 60+ year old Ford 600. I'm thinking about getting a tractor built in this century. Dealer has an L3011 HST but not the gear version. I'm inclined to go gear just because it's simpler, more energy efficient, what I'm used to, etc.

I'm confused by a comment about HST that pops up in various threads. Lots of guys say HST is best for mowing. I don't get it. When people say this, do they mean "with cruise control"?

'Cause I don't see how having to hold your foot down on the pedal is superior. With our ancient Ford I set the throttle by hand and my foot is free to move about the cabin.

I apologize if I'm missing something really obvious. Field mowing is my biggest tractor chore so I don't want to make the wrong choice.

Telkwa,

I had a 53 Ford Jubilee - 4 speeds and rev, I have pulled trees, cut grass (brush hog) and pushed a good bit of snow. I sold it and AFTER I bought my BX, BX has HST - 2 speed.

All the rest of the guys love their clutch and sticks, (I still drive a 5 speed SUV ) but for the work that I do, I like the throttle in one spot and my speed varied by my foot!

HST can change direction faster.....if you are not slamming it in gears....
HST has more range of gears if that is important, hard to creep in 1st gear and have enough throttle to move something heavy while riding the clutch, as I have done that a LOT

If you wife every uses the tractor - she (typically) will be more at ease with the HST.....

Flip side, HST is more expensive to maintain, fluid and filters......more $$ to buy than stick - much like a car.

There is a small loss of power with HST - at the PTO too. IF you look closely the PTO have about 95% the power of a straight drive.

Personally - I would never go back to stick, BUT I can appreciate those tractors that have gears and could still feel good about using them!

 

[TripleR]

We, for the most part, tend to lean more to that with which we are familiar and I was well into my 50's before I considered then bought an HST CUT; always had and liked geared tractors. Until this year, my brother pretty much discounted HSTs on anything other than lawnmowers. I was down and out for much of this summer, so my brother helped maintain two of my primary properties using the L5740 and M8540HDC; couldn't get him to use one before. Now he sees the attraction and had he done this earlier would have gone with an HST on his last CUT.

We still have and use geared tractors, but there are times you just can't beat an HST, but as mentioned, for long runs, you'll need cruise control on the HST.

Just read the hundreds of threads on the tractor sites and compare the converts from gear to HST vs HST to gear. Then there's lots of us who like and own both; really can't have too many tractors.

 

[Bluegill]

Old debate, someone usually gets mad... I don't like HST myself!

 

[TripleR]

Old debate, someone usually gets mad... I don't like HST myself!

Yep and never understand why all the emotion. I suspect it's often the case of someone who has had little to no experience operating one type or the other or they used a poorly working or out of date design. Years ago before I bought mine, I used a friend's Kubota HST which was pretty old and didn't like it. We also have some 60+ year old tractors with non synchronized gear boxes and if you compare one of those to a modern tractor, you won't care much for gears either.

 

[Bluegill]

Yep and never understand why all the emotion. I suspect it's often the case of someone who has had little to no experience operating one type or the other or they used a poorly working or out of date design. Years ago before I bought mine, I used a friend's Kubota HST which was pretty old and didn't like it. We also have some 60+ year old tractors with non synchronized gear boxes and if you compare one of those to a modern tractor, you won't care much for gears either.

Yep, everyone is different and most folks like what they like. It's all good!

I don't really understand the question myself, or the need to ask?

 

[Telkwa]

OK, got a more specific question re: the Kubota L3301 and HST vs. DT.

I'm trying to figure out what actually happens if you're brushogging. Specifically if you're backing under trees or what have you, stopping, pulling forward, moving over a bit, repeat repeat.

On the HST model, it's my impression that once you've pulled the little cable and engaged the PTO, it's engaged regardless of whether you're moving. Is that correct? If so, that might be the best for the sort of brushogging described above.

The Kubota brochure says the L3301DT PTO is "Transmission driven with overunning clutch". The L3301HST PTO is described as "Live-with overrunning clutch".

So what's the L3301DT like in the real world? Is it slower and/or more complicated to go back and forth with a brushog running?

 

[Fro65]

OK, got a more specific question re: the Kubota L3301 and HST vs. DT.

I'm trying to figure out what actually happens if you're brushogging. Specifically if you're backing under trees or what have you, stopping, pulling forward, moving over a bit, repeat repeat.

On the HST model, it's my impression that once you've pulled the little cable and engaged the PTO, it's engaged regardless of whether you're moving. Is that correct? If so, that might be the best for the sort of brushogging described above.

The Kubota brochure says the L3301DT PTO is "Transmission driven with overunning clutch". The L3301HST PTO is described as "Live-with overrunning clutch".


I recently went through this same conundrum specifically with the L3301. I ended up test driving both models to see for myself the 'real world' differences. On both the HST and the DT, you depress the clutch pedal all the way, engage the PTO lever, then release the pedal to start PTO operation. Once the PTO is running, to go forward or backwards, with the HST, you simply press the forward or reverse pedals. On the DT version, to change directions, you must depress the clutch halfway to disengage the transmission, move the gearshift to desired forward or reverse, then release the clutch pedal. You must do this for every direction change. I tend to be heavy footed and had a problem consistently depressing the clutch only half way for the direction changes. I tended to press the clutch too far and disengage the PTO as well and when I would release the clutch with the RPM up, you kind of 'shock' the tractor with the sudden unintended re-engagement of the PTO as well as the transmission.

For me, with constant and repetitive direction changes in mind, the HST was the way to go. I felt way less 'busy'.

Hope this helps.

 

[Bluegill]

It all in what ya get used to, auto trany vs manual...

I can go forward and backward with the L3800DT without even thinking about it. Actually the only time I think about it is when on one of theses threads.

 

[Telkwa]

Thanks, Fro -

The salesman mentioned something about pushing the clutch halfway but I didn't understand at the time.

Thanks for your descriptions. That helps.

 

[hodge]

You mentioned energy effeciency of a gear drive tractor- I doubt that you would ever experience or be able to measure the difference. HST uses engine power a little differently, but once a person is used to using a HST tractor, the time made up each time you change direction more than compromises the parasitic power loss through a hydraulic system. For the average user, there is more than enough power to the wheels for either type of transmission. PTO power is delivered the same, and that is the measure of whether a tractor is powerful enough or not.
I am a gear shifting fan- I sold my diesel truck and bought a gas model just to go back to a manual transmission. I will always prefer them, unless my knees won't allow it. But, I've grown to really appreciate the flexibility of an HST transmission. As alluded to, that is very personal, and no reason to get up in arms. It is a preference, not a superior way to do things. Gear tractors get it done, too.
One worthy consideration would be resale value- I would imagine that a used HST tractor is easier to sell than a gear drive one. The public really likes HST transmissions, and it shows by the manufacturing preference of tractor companies. The largest majority of what they build and sell are HST tractors.

 

[mopar2ya]

I do a lot of loader work, bush hog and snowblowing on my property. I had an old gear drive and loved it. Found a L3010 with HST and was un sure about it as opposed to gear drive. The HST in my opinion far out performs the gear drive. When backing up into 3-4 foot snow drifts you let up on the pedal a little and carry-on. I was always searching for a gear before.

 

[skeets]

Over the last couple dozen years I have run both,, and both have good points and bad, and I run either with an equal amount of reckless abandonment, but I do prefer the HST