HST vs. gear drive for various types of work.

[mcmxi]

I have and use both an HST and gear drive tractor and when the question of "which should I buy" pops up, I often see the standard response of "an HST is better for loader work". I've moved a fair amount of dirt with the M6060 and it's not loader work that's the challenge for me with a gear drive tractor and power shuttle.

For me the real difference is when running a PTO powered implement such as a rotary cutter, flail or snow blower where direction changes or tight turns are required. With an HST, the ground speed and engine rpm are independent of each other but that's not the case with a gear drive tractor. With an HST you can change direction or make a slow turn without changing PTO rpm and certainly without disengaging/engaging the PTO. In other words, there's no need to engage/disengage the PTO or change engine speed with an HST during turns or changes in direction.

This is not the case for a gear drive tractor, and in my opinion this is the major difference between the two. There's a lot more going on with a gear drive tractor because changes in direction or tight turns require a change in engine rpm regardless of whether or not the PTO is being disengaged/engaged. With loader work you can simply use the shuttle and foot throttle to control direction and speed, but it's more complicated when the PTO is connected. The simplest scenario is that you're having to change engine rpm while leaving the PTO engaged which affects PTO speed, so if for example you're cutting in a turn, you'll have a significant area that's being cut with less than an ideal blade tip speed. At worst, you're changing engine rpm and disengaging/engaging the PTO which adds to the complexity both entering and exiting the turn or while changing direction.

Just my opinion based on owning and using an HST and gear drive for loader work, snow removal and grass cutting. With more than two years of ownership with both types of tractor, I completely understand that an HST is a lot easier for most home owner type tractor jobs and despite my crazy notion to use the M6060 this year for snow removal, I just know that the MX6000 is so much easier to use when it comes to blowing snow.

 

[mcfarmall]

Does your gear drive tractor have a foot clutch? If it does, you can set the throttle to PTO speed, and use the foot clutch to ease through those precise maneuvers.

 

[JasonW]

Another difference is what model of HST Standard or HST+) and what model gear drive( standard non synchronized, standard synchronized, and hydraulic shuttle). And finally which type of PTO, usually depends on the above transmissions.

I grew up with gear drive tractors and manual transmission vehicles, but my first tractor I went HST. Second tractor, synchronized gear drive and third is hydraulic shuttle.

For your scenario of cutting and having to make a turn, either bring the engine RPM down some(but not enough to affect cut quality) or shift to the next lowest gear maintaining 540 PTO.

On my M6040 and the M6060’s with the 8 speed there is a big speed difference between 3rd and 4th gear. My next one with a cab will be the 12 speed version. The gear spacing is closer together.

 

[mcmxi]

Does your gear drive tractor have a foot clutch? If it does, you can set the throttle to PTO speed, and use the foot clutch to ease through those precise maneuvers.

Yes, but would riding/feathering the clutch with high engine rpm do some damage, or at least cause premature wear? I know the clutch is a multi-plate wet disc type so maybe more forgiving if engaging at higher rpm, but I own and have owned many vehicles with dry clutches so not sure about this.

 

[mcmxi]

For your scenario of cutting and having to make a turn, either bring the engine RPM down some(but not enough to affect cut quality) or shift to the next lowest gear maintaining 540 PTO.

On my M6040 and the M6060’s with the 8 speed there is a big speed difference between 3rd and 4th gear. My next one with a cab will be the 12 speed version. The gear spacing is closer together.

Yes, the F12/R12 is definitely an upgrade. I cut in the 2~2.5mph range (L2 or L3) due to ground conditions and typically tall grass, but could try shifting to L1 for the turns. I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks.

 

[Mitjam]

Yes, but would riding/feathering the clutch with high engine rpm do some damage, or at least cause premature wear? I know the clutch is a multi-plate wet disc type so maybe more forgiving if engaging at higher rpm, but I own and have owned many vehicles with dry clutches so not sure about this.

All I know is at the end of a 12 hr day mowing and then cutting grass at home with the lx I’m sure happy for the hst. My M 108s is still on original clutch 3500hrs. It used for batwing mower and hla snow wing. I wouldn’t even wanna guess how many times a day that sucker is shifted. They both have there place for sure.

 

[jimh406]

With loader work you can simply use the shuttle and foot throttle to control direction and speed

You say simply, but it's a bit more to do than just using a HST.

Of course, you can do anything with any type of tractor. Not all gear tractors have shuttle capability. I think that means there is even more to do with those that aren't shuttle.

 

[SDT]

Does your gear drive tractor have a foot clutch? If it does, you can set the throttle to PTO speed, and use the foot clutch to ease through those precise maneuvers.

One can do so, but intentionally slipping the clutch will shorten its life.

 

[JimmyJazz]

I have and use both an HST and gear drive tractor and when the question of "which should I buy" pops up, I often see the standard response of "an HST is better for loader work". I've moved a fair amount of dirt with the M6060 and it's not loader work that's the challenge for me with a gear drive tractor and power shuttle.

For me the real difference is when running a PTO powered implement such as a rotary cutter, flail or snow blower where direction changes or tight turns are required. With an HST, the ground speed and engine rpm are independent of each other but that's not the case with a gear drive tractor. With an HST you can change direction or make a slow turn without changing PTO rpm and certainly without disengaging/engaging the PTO. In other words, there's no need to engage/disengage the PTO or change engine speed with an HST during turns or changes in direction.

This is not the case for a gear drive tractor, and in my opinion this is the major difference between the two. There's a lot more going on with a gear drive tractor because changes in direction or tight turns require a change in engine rpm regardless of whether or not the PTO is being disengaged/engaged. With loader work you can simply use the shuttle and foot throttle to control direction and speed, but it's more complicated when the PTO is connected. The simplest scenario is that you're having to change engine rpm while leaving the PTO engaged which affects PTO speed, so if for example you're cutting in a turn, you'll have a significant area that's being cut with less than an ideal blade tip speed. At worst, you're changing engine rpm and disengaging/engaging the PTO which adds to the complexity both entering and exiting the turn or while changing direction.

Just my opinion based on owning and using an HST and gear drive for loader work, snow removal and grass cutting. With more than two years of ownership with both types of tractor, I completely understand that an HST is a lot easier for most home owner type tractor jobs and despite my crazy notion to use the M6060 this year for snow removal, I just know that the MX6000 is so much easier to use when it comes to blowing snow.

View attachment 136753

View attachment 136754

Beautiful country.

 

[Smokeydog]

For hillside work the HST has many advantages. Precision mowing, high hazard, brown tree cutter, grapple work all benefit using HST.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

From my years of 'field trials', HST is better than GST when rototilling.

 

[mcmxi]

For hillside work the HST has many advantages. Precision mowing, high hazard, brown tree cutter, grapple work all benefit using HST.

No argument here!

 

[mcmxi]

From my years of 'field trials', HST is better than GST when rototilling.

I've never used a rototiller but I would think that a gear drive would work just fine in that application.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I've never used a rototiller but I would think that a gear drive would work just fine in that application.

A lot of people feel that gear drives don't have a slow enough gear.

I think that with some of the older tractors that was-is an issue maybe?

 

[RCW]

A lot of people feel that gear drives don't have a slow enough gear.

I think that with some of the older tractors that was-is an issue maybe?

True - - we occasionally see folks with/without a creeper gear on their tractors. Lack of one on a geared tractor can be an issue as it's too fast in lowest gear to run a rototiller.

While been out of farming for decades, I see many folks say that larger tillage (plowing, discing, planting, etc.) often suggest a geared tractor. More efficient use of the tractor's HP, and consistent speed setting. Many of those tractors are designed for pulling, not running an FEL. Reserve HST for loader tractors.

That said, some of the newer larger tractors for tillage are CVT......Fendt are CVT?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I rototill with an 8 speed gear tranny...often wished I had a 2.5 gear on the sticks.....

With HST you can 'dial in' the perfect ground speed

 

[SDT]

True - - we occasionally see folks with/without a creeper gear on their tractors. Lack of one on a geared tractor can be an issue as it's too fast in lowest gear to run a rototiller.

While been out of farming for decades, I see many folks say that larger tillage (plowing, discing, etc.) often suggest a geared tractor. More efficient use of the tractor's HP, and consistent speed setting. Many of those tractors are designed for pulling, not running an FEL. Reserve HST for loader tractors.

That said, some of the newer larger tractors for tillage are CVT......Fendt are CVT?

Agreed, but CVT is not the same as HST.

CVTs are used in high HP tillage tractors rather than HSTs because of the inherent inefficiencies of HSTs, which are not inherent in high HP CVTs.

 

[SDT]

I've never used a rototiller but I would think that a gear drive would work just fine in that application.

Gear drive transmissions work well with rototillers only if the lowest gear(s) are slow enough for ground conditions.

Vintage Ford tractors with SOS transmissions are quite suitable for rototiller work whereas those with 4 speed and 5 speed transmissions are not except in rare conditions.

 

[RCW]

Agreed, but CVT is not the same as HST.

CVTs are used in high HP tillage tractors rather than HSTs because of the inherent inefficiencies of HSTs, which are not inherent in high HP CVTs.

Thanks - - I'm not savvy about CVT systems. Just have heard that some larger tractors have it.

I understand some passenger cars are CVT now also, but that's a tangent from the thread.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Lots of good info in this thread.

Only a couple things I would add / did not see mentioned:

1. IMO, I’ve felt a loss of oomph from time to time with an HST going up a hill (especially on the B but to some extent even on the Mx), especially if pulling or running the PTO. My bellyrub estimate is 15-20ish% loss…I don’t have a way to prove it but there is no question it luggs a bit….its not a big deal but it can be felt.

2. Also for a similar sized engines I think the geared tractor delivers more PTO power relative to HST…seems the specs even suggest/ support that. So I think geared would be more efficient for most pulling or PTO tasks.

Exception might be relative to size and scope of work. In a small garden though I think a HST would certainly be ideal. Not in all cases but in general. If you have something that you like to precisely control speed, maybe HST would be an exception such as tiller or something like that.

All that being said, I love the speed control lock on the MX. If it did not have that speed lock, the spousal unit would have already bought me a larger geared machine . With the speed control lock, for my scale of use / utility chores, in and out of the woods, in and out of garden, around fences and buildings, there is not a demerit with the HST.