HST creeping forward

[rbargeron]

..........It seemed like either the damper was not soft enough or that one of the springs was not pulling the pedal back hard enough.......

The linkage area is crowded enough on L-series machines - its near ridiculous on B's. Only way to really see whether the damper works right is with it disconnected. Some pics would be great as you get into it, explaining what does what. The videos posted above don't really address the damper. But its an important factor in the neutral centering system.

 

[zin01]

So my dealer said that there is a way to adjust the peddle and it is in the work shop manual but that it is complicated and it could mean a part needs to be replaced. The dealer said I have a 4 year warranty and it would be easer to bring it in. I haven't looked at the work shop manual but I will when I get a chance.


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[CharlieFoxtrot]

Just to update the group here... This weekend, I crawled under the tractor and lubed every connection of the HST pedal assembly that I could access without taking off the floor mat. That solved the problem of the pedal not returning to center and the tractor no longer creeps when I take my foot off the pedal.

I don't know if the problem originated from lack of lubrication but lubing eliminated at least the effects of the problem. Either way, I consider this an unacceptable safety issue for a machine with 50 hours on it. The owner of a new tractor should not, in my opinion, need to crawl underneath it and lube up the pedal assembly every few hours just to keep from running into someone or something.

I will give my dealer a call to see if anyone else has reported this problem and maybe send Kubota support a note about it.

 

[tcrote5516]

Not to ruffle any feathers but, this sounds to me like a periodic maintenance issue. Just something that needs adjusted from time to time. I am referring to the centering spring adjustment and adequate lubrication of the pivot point using the grease zerk.

That wont ruffle any feathers because it's flat out inaccurate. While I'm sure there is a percentage of machines that don't have this issue, there's a VERY high percentage that do. That alone is cause for concern but when you consider the result of this high percentage problem causes a machine to physically move without operator input I'm beside myself that it hasn't been addressed.

We know it's not a maintenance issue because it's happening to new machines off the dealer lot (mine included) and I've followed my maintenance schedule to a "T" from hour 1 to the 350 I have now. We know it's not an adjustment issue because those same dealers are unable to solve the problem (only lessen the effect at best) on brand new tractors and it returns shortly there after.

This is a piss poor design period.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This is a piss poor design period.

Well it might be, but they've been using the same design for years and years and so have a lot of other manufactures.

It's a 2 part system, one if the pedal or linkage is not adjusted correctly and the safety switch is also out of adjustment then it can and will move.
But if everything is adjusted properly, then if it creeps the safety circuit should shut it down.

And if Someone where to override the safety switch on the seat or the pedal then...TADA.. They get run over!

 

[tcrote5516]

Well it might be, but they've been using the same design for years and years and so have a lot of other manufactures.

It's a 2 part system, one if the pedal or linkage is not adjusted correctly and the safety switch is also out of adjustment then it can and will move.
But if everything is adjusted properly, then if it creeps the safety circuit should shut it down.

And if Someone where to override the safety switch on the seat or the pedal then...TADA.. They get run over!

Well to play devils advocate; Ford also made 3 million Pinto's over 10 years of production despite being proven death traps exploding on impact Length of service unfortunately isn't an indicator of solid design.

You make valid points regarding the safety switches but they don't make up for the design flaw either. As an example, my wife will not operate my Kubota to this day because she's afraid of it (to be fair she's not very mechanically minded so it doesn't take much to scare her off). It all stemmed from the first time she tried it back when it was brand new. She was backing up to turn around on our driveway. The side of the driveway has a pretty steep drop off that you would for sure not want to go down on anything short of a monster truck. She reversed with the wheel cut to make a 3 point turn. As she approached the edge of the driveway she let off the reverse pedal...you can guess what happened...the machine kept going backwards and the rear tires began to drop down the hill. Not fast but enough to send her into a panic wondering WHY IS IT STILL MOVING! before she jammed on the brake. That was 4 years ago and she won't go near it ever since. The neutral adjustment and seat switch does nothing to prevent this type of accident.

So instead of her using my somewhat expensive tractor with a loader to help out in the gardening, moving mulch, bushes and planters she uses my Craftsman ride on that costs 5% of the Bota with a tow behind trailer because that tractor actually stops when it's suppose to. That's unacceptable to me and should be embarrassing to Kubota.

 

[NEPA Guy]

I didn't override the safety switch and I'm still gonna get run over.

I think we can all agree that Kubota needs a better quality control mechanism in place. That inspected sticker they put on the machine don't mean jack squat.

I've spent over 150K in machinery over the past 5 years.

Kawasaki, Scag, Stihl, Generac, Toyota. Perfect.

Kubota is by far the worst.

I need to belong to a forum with this tractor because I need all the help I can get from honest hardworkin folk. We're here to support each other. We're in the same boat.

I dont belong to a kawasaki forum, a scag forum. a stihl forum, a generac forum, let alone a toyota forum. The writings on the wall.

 

[Ramos]

Wow, tough crowd today.

If I felt the design was so incredibly poor and dangerous, I would get rid of it. Seriously. My BX has close to 150 hours on it. I too have followed the scheduled maintenance to a 'T'. Part of that is a pre-operation walk around. Part of it is being cognizant of all systems while operating. If something comes to attention, well, correcting it comes under the heading of maintenance. My unit started creeping last Winter but a more thorough effort with lubrication took care of it in my case.

 

[Lencho]

Is there a significant change in the mechanism between the old hst drives and the new models? My old (1994 or so) B7100hst seems rock solid at the neutral position. So much so that I leave the lever in high or low and get off and on without worry that it will move. I set the brake to run the backhoe but rarely shift into neutral. Am I setting myself up to get run over? All I've done is pump a shot of grease in the zerk once since I bought it a few years ago. It never creeps in my admittedly limited experience. (~150 hours).
If there hasn't been a redesign, then I may be an idiot, or an accident waiting to happen. Please let me know - and I have a thick skin so let me know your advise!
(Thanks from my wife and son as well)

 

[L3010HST]

Is there a significant change in the mechanism between the old hst drives and the new models? My old (1994 or so) B7100hst seems rock solid at the neutral position. So much so that I leave the lever in high or low and get off and on without worry that it will move. I set the brake to run the backhoe but rarely shift into neutral. Am I setting myself up to get run over? All I've done is pump a shot of grease in the zerk once since I bought it a few years ago. It never creeps in my admittedly limited experience. (~150 hours).
If there hasn't been a redesign, then I may be an idiot, or an accident waiting to happen. Please let me know - and I have a thick skin so let me know your advise!
(Thanks from my wife and son as well)

Mine creeps only on very cold days. I just tap my pedal in the opposite direction to bring it back to neutral, no big deal to me. And always, always set the brake before leaving the seat for any reason.

Personally, if I were running a backhoe I'd put that tranny in neutral, but that's me

 

[zin01]

I can center mine in neutral and watch it pull its self slowly forward and the tractor start moving. There is no grease zerk on any part of the peddle or linkage and even if I didn't have the seat "overridden" the tractor will only shut itself off if it's moving with one of the PTO's engaged. It will still move with all the safety stuff on and no one on the tractor which makes it a pain when you are trying to hook up a brush hog or anything else when you get one link in the attachment ant the tractor starts walking forward.


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[Grouse09]

Did anyone find a fix for the creeping? I like to let my B2650 warm up, but it now creeps away. Filling the forks with brush today (manually setting branches on the forks), and the tractor starts moving towards me...even with the brake on. Seems line it is getting worse. 156 hours.


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[whitetiger]

All BX and B series tractors have two adjustments for the Hydros. One is a spring tension adjustment for the centering of the linkage into a V-shaped slot and the other is an eccentric adjustment to match the Hydro neutral to the linkage neutral. Both are very simple to make. They are shown with pictures in the service manual.

There is nothing wrong with the design of the hydro linkage, it works and lasts remarkably well.

 

[eipo]

Heres where I found my b2650 this morning after starting it to warm up...

Couple videos I shot after getting the plowing done....

 

[DustyRusty]

I use molybdenum disulfide grease on all my BX tractor fittings, including the hydrostatic pedal and have never had any problems of the tractor creeping forward in the 15 +- years that I have owned it. Those parts of the tractor that I need to use a spray lube on, I use Deep Creep by Seafoam. I believe that it is the best penetrating oil on the planet, although some might disagree and say that Kroil is. Proper maintenance is the key to keeping all equipment in good condition. A tractor that is used infrequently require more maintenance checks than a tractor that is used every day.

 

[eipo]

I use molybdenum disulfide grease on all my BX tractor fittings, including the hydrostatic pedal and have never had any problems of the tractor creeping forward in the 15 +- years that I have owned it. Those parts of the tractor that I need to use a spray lube on, I use Deep Creep by Seafoam. I believe that it is the best penetrating oil on the planet, although some might disagree and say that Kroil is. Proper maintenance is the key to keeping all equipment in good condition. A tractor that is used infrequently require more maintenance checks than a tractor that is used every day.

While I won't disagree in general, the items causing this issue are not referenced in any maintenance schedule either in the operators manual or the WSM.

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[torch]

Heres where I found my b2650 this morning after starting it to warm up...

Wow! That first video is well beyond what I would consider to be a "creep"!

The second video is about what my B7100 did when I first got it. After increasing the tension on the centering spring and making sure the pedal adjustment was correct, it now sits still on level ground, but will creep slowly forward or backwards on an incline.

But that's what the parking brake is for.

 

[jonmad]

There is a procedure for adjusting creep in the WSM. At least for the BX that is. You have to jack up the rear and pull the right rear wheel. There is a Y shaped piece of metal on the side of the HST with a crescent slot and a bolt in the slot. You need to loosen that bolt and slid the metal Y one way or the other till wheels stop. Read the procedure in the WSM before attempting this. I did it on my BX2230 and It wasn’t difficult. Hope this helps.

 

[jkcolo22]

Heres where I found my b2650 this morning after starting it to warm up...

Couple videos I shot after getting the plowing done....

Heck some people would pay good money for that feature! Automatic snow plow! I’m kidding, of course. That actually looks pretty dangerous.


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[sheepfarmer]

Glad you were pointed out of your barn. If it had been mine it would have been bad. I put on brake, but if yours will drag the blade and the forks, the brake probably wouldn't stop it. Guess it is neutral gear range. Thanks for posting that!