How about some 140w gear oil in the front diff?

[OrangePower]

All the purists that want to jump in and say "use what the manual states" can take a seat in the stand, this thread isnt for you!

For all the rest, I dont often use high gear in my BX23s, so, its all slow crawling. For the hills I climb and the dirt I transport in the bucket, 75w seems a little on the light side. I have 1,000 hours on her now, so, the major wear has been done, no going back, but, going forward, how about some 140w? Should have good sheer resistance and make up for the wear in the bushings?

May come back to bite me in the winter though. Since it will never really warm up, like a transmission, maybe a straight 90w? Need to get some 140w and stick it in the refrigerator to see how thick it gets, as I do use the tractor sparingly in the winter time.

 

[Henro]

After 22 years with both my Kubota tractors I have never changed from UDT or SUDT in the front axles....what is your motivation for using something else? Especially if higher viscosity than recommended in the manual?

Well I guess you gave an indication of motivation...but unless you have an issue with seals leaking, why not just stick with UDT or SUDT which the tractors are shipped with. It is probably the best for cold temps....

Frankly, I think you are overthinking this...

 

[RCW]

I would put it in the freezer, not the refrigerator to check viscosity.

I see you’re in VA. Freezer would give you worst case scenario.

In upstate New York, I’ve had to blow snow at -8 degrees F.

Just a thought.

 

[OrangePower]

After 22 years with both my Kubota tractors I have never changed from UDT or SUDT in the front axles....what is your motivation for using something else? Especially if higher viscosity than recommended in the manual?

Well I guess you gave an indication of motivation...but unless you have an issue with seals leaking, why not just stick with UDT or SUDT which the tractors are shipped with. It is probably the best for cold temps....

Frankly, I think you are overthinking this...

Well, if you happened to read my painful post about my Kubota dealer, one of the issues I was having that needed to be looked at was my front tires/bearing/gears. If I got a load on them, or ride at an angle, the tire jumps around like a mexican jumping bean. It bounces and wobbles in all kinds of diff directions (lots of stuttering/jerking motions, not always a ....ahem, fluid motion) and I could swear I feel/hear a little grinding. Fluid is filled and looks okay, everything seems to be working fine as long as no load is on it. Could be a defect or I just wore it out pretty early in life. Since my warrantee is gone thanks to the dealer that never looked at it, just trying to save it for as long as possible before a tear down.

 

[TheOldHokie]

All the purists that want to jump in and say "use what the manual states" can take a seat in the stand, this thread isnt for you!

For all the rest, I dont often use high gear in my BX23s, so, its all slow crawling. For the hills I climb and the dirt I transport in the bucket, 75w seems a little on the light side. I have 1,000 hours on her now, so, the major wear has been done, no going back, but, going forward, how about some 140w? Should have good sheer resistance and make up for the wear in the bushings?

May come back to bite me in the winter though. Since it will never really warm up, like a transmission, maybe a straight 90w? Need to get some 140w and stick it in the refrigerator to see how thick it gets, as I do use the tractor sparingly in the winter time.

Hey man - dont stop there - pump it full of EP grease

Dan

 

[OrangePower]

Hey man - dont stop there - pump it full of EP grease

Dan

If EP grease is a liquid, okay, but I dont think you know what your talking about.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If EP grease is a liquid, okay, but I dont think you know what your talking about.

You would be wrong on the matter of knowledge and apparently you dont recognize sarcasm.

Let me makebit plain. I think SAE 140 gear oil will buy you nothing and will actually open you up to potentially damaging behaviors.

Dan

 

[OrangePower]

You would be wrong on the matter of knowledge and apparently you dont recognize sarcasm.

Let me makebit plain. I think SAE 140 gear oil will buy you nothing and will actually open you up to potentially damaging behaviors.

Dan

Like Dave Chapelle would say.... "GOTCHA ******* !!" I fully understood your sarcasm, but, I see you didnt get mine???

Proper lubes for proper applications, of course. The BX is a slow azz moving tractor. Its not flinging lube around like a cars rear end or transmission gear box driving 70mph down the highway. As long as it can seeps into the cracks n crevices, your good. Seems everything is submerged, its not dependent on sling lube. Only part I see would be the pinion shaft, and, that too touches plenty of oil.

Negatives - Turns into ep grease in cold weather, wipes away from bushing surfaces and doesnt replenish, great for the gears though. Puts a strain on the engine from resistance of non turning wheels. From 75w to 140w, where does that tradeoff begin? Im not an oil-ologist (how about you?), just came to chit chat about it. Didnt mean to ruffle your sarcastic feathers. Carry on, lol.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Like Dave Chapelle would say.... "GOTCHA ******* !!" I fully understood your sarcasm, but, I see you didnt get mine???

Proper lubes for proper applications, of course. The BX is a slow azz moving tractor. Its not flinging lube around like a cars rear end or transmission gear box driving 70mph down the highway. As long as it can seeps into the cracks n crevices, your good. Seems everything is submerged, its not dependent on sling lube. Only part I see would be the pinion shaft, and, that too touches plenty of oil.

Negatives - Turns into ep grease in cold weather, wipes away from bushing surfaces and doesnt replenish, great for the gears though. Puts a strain on the engine from resistance of non turning wheels. From 75w to 140w, where does that tradeoff begin? Im not an oil-ologist (how about you?), just came to chit chat about it. Didnt mean to ruffle your sarcastic feathers. Carry on, lol.

Like I said it will buy you nothing and you have kind of identified the main concern - channeling in cold weather. The oil gets so viscous it wont flow fast enough to fill in behind the gear teeth as they move in and out of mesh and you actually loose lubrication. Not at all good - in fact very bad - for gear teeth. In over the road applucations the oil gets warmed pretty quickly by the high speed gears whipping it up so channeling is held to a minimum. In a low speed BX the oil may never warm up and those gears could run a very long tine with little to no oil film.

I am not an "oilologist" or even a rheologist but I do know and understand the labeling and rheological requirements for the SAE viscosity grades.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Kubota has designed and built quite a few Millions of these units and have been doing it for 50 plus years.
But hey you know more than they know.
So throw some heavy oil in it that will do nothing to help lube the front axle parts and is very likely to do damage, then blame it back on Kubota, sounds logical.

You do know the size of the diff gears is about the size of your thumb print.

 

[OrangePower]

Kubota has designed and built quite a few Millions of these units and have been doing it for 50 plus years.
But hey you know more than they know.

I was WAITING for a guy like you to pop in. Always one in every crowd or a couple here (rednecks cant help themselves I guess)! Thanks for not disappointing and failing me!!

Well, I guess they knew the best way to make my wheel skip, grind and shake all over the place too, ehy?

Size of a thumb, ehy? All the more reason to have as thick an oil as you can run. Can you imagine how much pressure those teeth are going through and how much cushion they would need to keep steel off steel? There comes limits though......

They make these things to last just long enough. If you REALLY think they care about you, I also have a bridge to sell you. PM me for details!

 

[OrangePower]

Like I said it will buy you nothing and you have kind of identified the main concern - channeling in cold weather. The oil gets so viscous it wont flow fast enough to fill in behind the gear teeth

I believe that whole area is submerged, no? There would be continuous oil contact unless you go fast enough to pull a vortex from the top. My concern would be oil getting to/into any bushing type bearings, if there is any. I would have to check the diagrams to see what parts are in there, but, remember, older cars and modern trailers DO use grease, so, just depends on whats in there.

Not saying i am right, just saying.............

 

[number two]

If you really want to run gear oil,consider 85W140.
Thinner when cold and heavier when warm.
Good Luck!

 

[D2Cat]

You ask a question and get answers you don't like, then respond with smart ass comments. Post your question in the "Daily Chuckle" forum and you'll have more fun discerning the red necks!

 

[OrangePower]

You ask a question and get answers you don't like, then respond with smart ass comments. Post your question in the "Daily Chuckle" forum and you'll have more fun discerning the red necks!

So, someone can get smart with me but when I throw it back its a big no no, lol, okay..... Guess your contestant #2?

P.S. I am a redneck too but I at least try to have some form of class.

 

[OrangePower]

If you really want to run gear oil,consider 85W140.
Thinner when cold and heavier when warm.
Good Luck!

I thought about that but I dont think the front diff would get warm enough to reach the 140w side. I was trying to meet in the middle of 90-140w when I saw they had straight 140w and THAT got me thinking....

 

[Mark_BX25D]

If EP grease is a liquid, okay, but I dont think you know what your talking about.

He's not the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.


But go ahead. It's your tractor. You are free as a bird to wreck it any way you want to.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Enjoy a week vacation on me.
I don't tolerate insulting remarks to anyone.
And if you want to remain on this forum you will treat everyone with some semblance of politeness and respect!

 

[TheOldHokie]

I believe that whole area is submerged, no? There would be continuous oil contact unless you go fast enough to pull a vortex from the top. My concern would be oil getting to/into any bushing type bearings, if there is any. I would have to check the diagrams to see what parts are in there, but, remember, older cars and modern trailers DO use grease, so, just depends on whats in there.

Not saying i am right, just saying.............

I explained to you what happens rheologically when gear oil gets cold and becomes too viscous to flow properly. Submerged or not it forms voids between the rotating gear teeth leaving them unlubricated. Thats not an opinion its physics. Its a behavior called channeling that is well documented by lots of very reliable and well controlled physical testing. And its a major reason why multi-grade gear oils with improved cold temperature flow were developed. Using a higher viscosity monograde oil makes that channeling problem worse not better.

I am also not a triboligist but I do know that the gear teeth in a differential operate in what triboligists classify as the boundary mode lubrication regime. In that mode the operating pressures are so high the oil film is displaced and the teeth are forced into direct metal to metal sliding contact. That causes welding, galling, and scuffing wear.

EP wear protection additives are used to minimize the effects of boundary mode operation. EP additives are chemically activated by contact with the localized high surface temperatures created at the sliding points of cobtact and react with the base metal of the teeth to form a microscopically thin sacrificial surface layer of softer metal oxides. This layer is torn away as the gears operate greatly reducing (but not totally eliminating) the loss of base metal. If the oil gets too viscous to flow and reach the points of contact none of that can happen

i have no idea what the problem is with the front axle on your tractor but I am quite confident its not because the OEM specified lubricant was too "thin" for the application.

Dan

 

[hagrid]

I explained to you what happens rheologically when gear oil gets cold and becomes too viscous to flow properly. Submerged or not it forms voids between the rotating gear teeth leaving them unlubricated. Thats not an opinion. Its a behavior called channeling that is well documented by lots of very reliable and well controlled physical testing. And its why multi-grade gear oils with improved cold temperature flow were developed. Using a higher viscosity monograde oil makes that channeling problem worse not better.

I am also not a triboligist but I do know that the gear teeth in a differential operate in what triboligists classify as the boundary mode lubrication regime. In that mode the operating pressures are so high the oil film is displaced and the teeth are forced into direct metal to metal sliding contact. That causes welding, galling, and scuffing wear.

EP wear protection additives are used to minimize the effects of boundary mode operation. EP additives are chemically activated by contact with the localized high surface temperatures created at the sliding points of cobtact and react with the base metal of the teeth to form a microscopically thin sacrificial syrface layer of softer metal oxides. This layer is torn away as the gears operate greatly reducing (but not totally eliminating) the loss of base metal. If the oil gets too viscous to flow and reach the points of contact none of that can happen

i have no idea what the problem is with the front axle on your tractor but I am quit confident its not because the OEM specified lubricant was too "thin" for the application.

Dan

He can't hear you.