Hooks - welded/bolted to FEL Bucket

[outpost22]

I use both weld on hooks (top) and 3" "D" rings on the sides of the loader bucket. The "D" rings don't protrude out the side, allowing for normal width clearance. They come in really handy for pulling things at times.
Mobile welders are everywhere. Learning to weld is not hard. Learning to weld well IS harder.

 

[ADK4WD]

The Kubota "warning" about not using chains/ropes w/FEL is only one step away from warning against using the FEL "at all". Any tractor offers limitless ways to injure yourself - if you aren't careful. Regardless of which hooks I eventually get (welded or bolted) I think I will also want a reinforcing strip of 1/4" welded across the top of the bucket -- unless that's complete overkill?

 

[Kennyd4110]

Regardless of which hooks I eventually get (welded or bolted) I think I will also want a reinforcing strip of 1/4" welded across the top of the bucket -- unless that's complete overkill?

Yes, complete overkill if your getting the SSQA bucket (and you really should without a doubt). The plate that runs across the top is already 1/4" or 5/16".

 

[meackerman]

I've done 2, 3 & 4, though usually I'll just use the FEL to lift the front end up and then I'll put jack stands under it to keep it up. When I needed to replace the light bulbs on top of the posts for our round pen, I didn't have a step ladder high enough (12' is the highest I have) to get to them, so I climbed in our Ford tractor's bucket and it got me up high enough to change them (FIL was driving the tractor)....and it was a lot more stable than a tall ladder.

 

[ADK4WD]

Ken, I'm getting the upgraded HD bucket w/bolt on edge, think it has rounded back. I will look at one more closely and thought I might be over doing it

 

[Kennyd4110]

Ken, I'm getting the upgraded HD bucket w/bolt on edge, think it has rounded back. I will look at one more closely and thought I might be over doing it

Ah...you haven't said (or I missed it) which machine you where purchasing.

 

[ADK4WD]

Looking at MX5800,

 

[scdeerslayer]

Looking at MX5800,

Unless you're getting a bucket that's different from the standard bucket it's got a strip that's close to 3/8" between the SSQA attachment points. The problem is there's a narrow gap between that and the inside of the bucket, and that could cause an issue trying to bolt anything there. That's why I plan to weld hooks instead of bolting them.

 

[Tweetybrun]

Kens Hooks. “Excellent choice “

 

[Chaentjens]

I welded a pair on the outside and installed a d ring in the center.

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[MadMax31]

/\

Exact same

 

[mikester]

Purchasing New tractor in 50hp range and want "Hooks" welded onto FEL HD Bucket...before taking possession of tractor. Every Dealer has offered to do this - except ONE...claiming Kubota now prohibits?? While I believe this could be true - advice from Kubota's legal dept, Zero risk, lawsuit avoidance - seems ridiculous. Most tractors I've seen w/FELs have hooks - from one to three. - and they are very handy...removing fallen trees, large rocks from field etc... I have No welding skills and no trailer to haul my tractor to a place that welds.
Anyone else use hooks? If so - what size hooks and what size & type of chain do you use? Run into or hear of this problem? Where did yu get your hooks?
Thanks

Bolt-ons are safer because you don't risk structurally damaging your bucket from improper welding procedure. Keep in mind bucket steels are going to high strength alloy steels for light weight and strength. Improper welds, pre and post heats will affect strength. This is the same reason why welding or flame cutting fork lift forks is a no-no and you lose your safety certification for lifting capacity if you attempt this work yourself.

I bought a set like these bolt-ons that are rated for 10,000lbs that are chrome plated. Don't forget to use a re-inforcing plate and washers on the inside of the bucket.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/class-iv-bolt-on-tow-hook/A-p8002273e

 

[John T]

Bolt-ons are safer because you don't risk structurally damaging your bucket ]

Structurally damaging your bucket????

Please ....
[emoji849]




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[D2Cat]

Mike, with your concern for details I would think you'd have full engagement of the nut as a safety concern?

 

[mikester]

Mike, with your concern for details I would think you'd have full engagement of the nut as a safety concern?

I agree! Should be 3 threads past the nut...

 

[mikester]

Structurally damaging your bucket????

Please ....
[emoji849]

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http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?43948-Welding-forklift-forks

I didn't say you can't weld to a bucket, I just wouldn't recommend it. There's a good reason why OSHA will go down hard on violators after accidents occur. Its the same reason why Kubota says don't do it.

 

[85Hokie]

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?43948-Welding-forklift-forks

I didn't say you can't weld to a bucket, I just wouldn't recommend it. There's a good reason why OSHA will go down hard on violators after accidents occur. Its the same reason why Kubota says don't do it.

I agree wholeheartedly.......welding on the bucket is NOT the best way.....
has it been done successfully a kazillion times? Sure!!! Is it safe??? Well - the jury can and has decided that on many occasions.

Have I ever done it to my machines.....nope, have I seen it done to others ? Yepper!

AS I try to explain to my engineering kids - explaining how PSI works......

I use a large man 350 lbs standing on flat size 16 shoes......he is placing 350 lbs of force on the ground..... over the entire surface of the shoes.... (have to see my ugly pictures on the board to appreciate it!!)

Then take a rather large lady standing in high heel shoes........she places a hellva lot MORE weight per square inch!

Now WHY did I mention psi ? SIMPLE - a welded hook is a super hot placement of metal in a very confided space - it weakened the metal....pure and simple! Enough to cause damage? Perhaps not.... 99.99% of the time I am sure it has been fine.

The amount of weld to the contact of the bucket is rather small. AND YES - I have seen a bucket hook RIP from the welds placed around it, have no idea wtf the person was pulling - but the bucket sheared at the welding point, weld did not break.......metal did!!! Perhaps a poor weld , perhaps a weak bucket...

Welding to another piece of metal, little thicker than the bucket, and then BOLTING to the bucket.....with a backer, is a lot stronger! Then there are those that get pissy about drilling holes in the bucket......I got over that quick like and in a hurry placing the tooth bar on

Take a look at Ken's hooks......tractor will quit before they think about failing!

Now, are any of us that ugly to our buckets to rip a welding hook off???? No need to raise hands..... Very few of us would place enough force to hurt the welded hook!

Then again - we know people around us that could break an anvil!

 

[torch]

The points made about welds, above, are all true. However, my bucket, and most others I have seen, is held together with welds. The problem is not the welding, it is how and where it is welded. If you weld a grade 70 hook to a piece of 18 gauge sheet steel, you're going to tear a hole in the bucket long before you reach the limit of the hook.

But if there's a structural component of suitable material and adequate strength then i doubt welding the hook on is necessarily any worse than welding the shell of the bucket to it's mounts. I welded my hooks on to my bucket, but I designed it with a heavy triangular beam for that very purpose. I'll break the front axle of my little tractor before those hooks will tear away:

 

[mikester]

I'll break the front axle of my little tractor before those hooks will tear away:

I hear you and have done that myself - I wish I had some pictures to show you of a guys skidsteer bucket where the hook broke off - not the hook itself but a quarter inch all around the weld on the base metal of the bucket. Almost like a punched hole in the bucket, the shape of the weld bead surrounding the hook. The hook held, the weld held, but the base metal heat affected zone around the weld became brittle and just popped off. This was on 1/4" metal plate, not the <1/8" stuff you see on sub-compact utility tractors.

Then again if you are welding hooks on buckets for SCUTs you aren't really able to put many tons of force on that hook.

 

[conropl]

...Then again if you are welding hooks on buckets for SCUTs you aren't really able to put many tons of force on that hook.

That is really the point. Even most CUT's are going to have a hard time producing enough force to break a good weld. It also does not mean that bolt-on hooks are significantly stronger than a properly welded on hook because the bolt-on hooks are still welded to the plate that is bolted to the tractor... and I would guess that the weld or heat effected zone of the bolt-on hooks is going to break before the bolts would (especially grade 8 bolts).

I have no fight in this, you should do what works for you. If you are not capable of producing a good weld, then the manufactured bolt-on is a great choice because you can be pretty sure there are good welders welding the hooks to the plates, and there is some sort of inspection/quality control along with product testing to ensure it is done properly. You will also notice I keep underlining "good" weld. That is the key... good welds with good practices (proper mounting surface included). I have seen some great welders on this sight, and I would never tell them that they should not weld their hooks on because they are going to be done right. But I have also seen welds that look like the peanut butter spread on the mouse trap with a knife or finger - they should use the bolt-on's and thank the people that welded the hooks onto those plates for keeping them safe.

Like most things in life, there are no absolutes and everything is relative. (That's my "theory of relativity", just a lot less insightful and famous than Eisenstein's.)