hints for grading and snow plowing?

[sheepfarmer]

I have a new L3560HST with a 6 foot bucket and a back blade ordered. I've only ever used a Farmall cub with a small front blade and a Ford 8n with a manure bucket, and so have no experience with these attachments. I'd like to be able to scrape snow away from gates and keep some pathways between barns and the back pasture open. Some are across my lawn. I've already discovered I can do some serious damage with my bucket to the ground and have been practicing back blading in "float" out back where it wouldn't matter. I get into the most trouble where one or the other of the wheels goes over a bump or into a hole and tilts the bucket in some way I hadn't planned. I'd rather not learn everything the hard way, so I would sure appreciate any hints you'all would like to share about this. Thanks!

 

[Cal270]

Just installed a 2" pipe assembly on my fel snow plow
Both are made by Hermans Farm Supply.
Last year I used a rear blade & it was a battle keeping my gravel in place.
Of course the pipe attaches to bottom of the blade.
Will use the rear blade this year on cement approaches.
Can send u a photo of it with a cell # or email.
Cost was $127.
It bolts on and could be removed in a few minutes.
Have seen photos of pipe being welded on , but I'm not that handy to do & may want it off in future.
Soooo u have a tier 4 tractor. Will be interesting to see how mine does this winter. Regeneration will be much more frequent than in warm weather & running pto...
Good luck!

 

[chim]

Welcome aboard. Many here have their own favorite techniques. They range from using PVC pipe on the cutting edges for gravel / grass areas to using the back blade in the opposite direction. If the snow isn't really deep on paved areas it often works well to drive through the snow with the back blade cocked at a 45 to cast the snow to the side. For deeper snow you can use the loader to punch through, then continue with the rear blade. It won't take you long to discover your own favorite methods.

One thing I'd recommend would be adding a wear edge to the loader bucket to p[reserve the factory edge. I've made bolt-on edges from stuff found at work, and there are commercially available ones as well.

Haven't had a chance to try them this year, but I made a pair of wings for pushing some snow.

 

[D2Cat]

sheepfarmer, my suggestion is to put your loader down so it's setting flat on the ground. See the position of the top of your loader bucket. Learn the relationship of the top to the bottom so you will know the angle of your cutting edge when you can"t see it.

Now, when you're pushing snow, dirt, or anything else you can roll the bucket cutting edge up just an inch or so and push without moving too deep. You don't have clean all the way to the bottom, at least the first pass.

 

[Burt]

I have a new L3560HST with a 6 foot bucket and a back blade ordered. I've only ever used a Farmall cub with a small front blade and a Ford 8n with a manure bucket, and so have no experience with these attachments. I'd like to be able to scrape snow away from gates and keep some pathways between barns and the back pasture open. Some are across my lawn. I've already discovered I can do some serious damage with my bucket to the ground and have been practicing back blading in "float" out back where it wouldn't matter. I get into the most trouble where one or the other of the wheels goes over a bump or into a hole and tilts the bucket in some way I hadn't planned. I'd rather not learn everything the hard way, so I would sure appreciate any hints you'all would like to share about this. Thanks!

sheepfarmer,

Good day sir!

Now, I will likely have another opinion from those expressed already but here it goes.

You have a great tractor there and an experience similar to ours. We had a Ford 2N and a back blade. No loader. To plow, the 6 foot back blade was used pulling mostly. However, the old Ford hydraulics would not stay in place, so the blade slowly lowered from an internal leak somewhere. I often backed up with that tractor to clear snow. Either way, I dug up gravel at times.

However, the snow did get plowed backwards or forward at times using the 2N.

Then came our Kubota L3700SU (read L3800). Now the 6 foot blade stays where I put it. I put it just an inch or so above the rear tires on flat ground to start plowing. I will then set the 3PT set screw for that level to stop at that height. The hydraulics keep the blade there and we clear our 300 foot driveway with the blade tilted at 45 degrees in two nice, slow passes. I only pull with our tractor for snow. With the ability to set the level and keep it there with the stop screw, you can lift your blade at the end of a pass, FEL the snow in the way and put the blade back down not being concerned about gravel disturbance.

We also have a box blade and by way of explaining, it keeps our driveway level when I can use it in the good weather. Thus, our snow blade is not running into uneven ground when plowing snow.

Many of the posts here find disappointment trying to use a tractor as a bulldozer and what I know now is that bulldozers are meant to push, tractors are built to pull. I have yet to see a bulldozer with a blade on the back although it may work great.

We use our FEL in the snow to remove or tidy up any slop form the pulls. To clear out in front of a driveway apron to a garage, I pull with the blade straight...parallel with the building to pull the snow off the apron. Then, I will scoop it up and dump the snow out of the paths.

Everyone has their techniques and for us, this one is most useful, quickest and safer than the old 2N by a long shot. As long as your 3pt hydraulics are stable, this technique works great. The visibility going forward and ability to see the edges using your tractor as a guide makes for quick work.

If the snow pushers disagree, that's all and good and accepted. This is just some Orange peel coming into the OTT information exchange.

Happy plowing, pulling and OTT'ing,

Burt

 

[skeets]

Sheepfarmer,, One thing I did with my back blade and so have many others is to make a set of feet for it,, then when you lower it next to the gates or back up close to something when you lower it the feet rest on the ground and you don't dig in with the edges,, Also when you angle the blade you will feel the tractor want to pull to one side a bit don't get your panties in a wad, this is normal.. The pipe on the bucket is a good idea however take time and play with it and like said roll the cutting edge back a bit move what you want to then back in with the back blade and pull the rest away ( for snow I mean) dirt and gravel is another ball game. But you can learn a bunch about doing that just by moving snow, and watching what happens when you do. Hope you find something in here that will help and welcome to the orange

 

[ShaunRH]

Your 3pt likely doesn't have a true 'float' position. The weight of the implement and the angle, the pivot point of the rear tires, etc. etc. all come into play. The 3pt will fight coming up if the hydraulics are set at a certain height... they want to keep it. What is true is that 3pt hydraulics don't have much down force, but plenty of 'stay' force. This makes them unreliable for 'float' operations.

Your FEL bucket likely has a true 'float' position and only the weight of the FEL assembly and the angle of attack of your bucket have an effect. I have fairly effectively skimmed off a dirt/gravel driveway with an FEL in float position with the bucket nose curled up about an 1" at the front. Initially it tries to lift the bucket up but as it fills with snow, the added weight counters the tendency and it pushes pretty good. I keep it filled with snow, acting as the 'blade' of the FEL bucket. It's not hyper efficient but it works to take the snow load down to where your rear blade can clean it up nicely (if you have over half a blade height in snowfall to clear).

Knowing what I know now, I'd just buy a set of FEL bucket 'feet' to keep it elevated and level and skim off that way. I'm not a super expert snow mover, I've only had to do it a few times, but you get the hang of it pretty fast.

 

[cerlawson]

One more thought. While going forward is great, in that you don't have to twist your body around, think about this.

Goring forward with rear blade, your pins on the three point are a "hinge" and the cutting edge of the blade is the other support for the blade system. As you go forward, that arrangement tends to lift up the blade. For some situations it is necessary to put weight on the blade for going forward to keep the blade down..

Going backwards, the force is not only backwards but also down on the blade cutting edge. So for snow plowing on my lawn I use that principle, but I aim the blade cutting edge toward the tractor while I back up. In effect it is doing its job in reverse. Seems stupid, but it works. No need for shoes on the blade or a pipe covering that edge. You will be surprised at how well you can clean off snow running the blade in reverse and going backwards over gravel and lawns. I think its that downward force that keeps the blade from riding up over fresh snow. It also would not hurt to add some weight if necessary.

.

 

[Tooljunkie]

My truck plow has adjustable shoes, work very well. Most of the plowing is learned by trial and error. By error i mean forgetting something buried under the snow or failing to negotiate distance to a solid object.

 

[skeets]

Yeah curbs have brought that old Jeep to a sudden stop more than once in the old days,,,lol

 

[sheepfarmer]

Hi Everyone, computer problems at this end, second try at posting a reply, so short version is Thank you all for the thoughtful and helpful replies! I learned a lot. Will try the hints out as soon as the snow comes back. Great forum, lots of nice people logging on. Sheepfarmer

 

[MagKarl]

Your 3pt likely doesn't have a true 'float' position. The weight of the implement and the angle, the pivot point of the rear tires, etc. etc. all come into play. The 3pt will fight coming up if the hydraulics are set at a certain height... they want to keep it. What is true is that 3pt hydraulics don't have much down force, but plenty of 'stay' force. This makes them unreliable for 'float' operations.

Sorry, but this isn't really correct. Yes your 3 pt floats. 3 pt's have lift, and that's it under most circumstances. No down force unless you've added something extra. The 3 pt does not fight the implement coming up.

The 3 pt control really only sets the lowest depth you allow, but is free to either cut down to that level, or ride up from there depending on setup of the implement and ground conditions. For instance, if you have your rear blade angle set incorrectly, it will float along the surface of the ground without cutting in at all.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks MagKarl, I am hoping for a lesson on how the 3 pt hitch works when the dealer brings my blade. That will clarify what you are saying which makes sense to me. However I just looked at the manual and it says 1. Position control. 2. Draft control if equipped. 3. Mixed control if equipped. 4. Float control. There is a stop setting, and in my abyssmal ignorance I thought it was like the hydraulics on the cub or the 8n, which I never had occasion to use, but which stopped the implement from going any lower. I don't actually know if my new tractor has draft control or not. I didn't plan on plowing as in working up soil and so didn't ask about it. The blade I picked is pretty heavy so any floating had better have some kind of lower limit or I am in trouble. Will keep you posted on what I learn about this model. Thanks!

 

[ShaunRH]

Well, it depends on the kind of 3 point you have, some will fight being pushed up or only allow it at a certain rate (hydraulic restriction). Draft control fights it being pulled down or the tractor being slowed. There have been various 3 point control systems.

Now, on my L3200, any really sudden changes in pitch are resisted by the 3 point, only the mower with that really long stretch seems to be able to force it to move upward quickly. The box blade just digs in harder for a moment before being slowly moved up.

The FEL happily floats up or down with sudden changes, so to me that's a true float.

Maybe it would be better to call it a 'restricted' float to be more accurate for these Kubota's.

I'll show you a 3 point on a dozer that will give you the finger if you try to move it upward, it does have a hard down force on it, but that's not a standard 3 point.

There are also downforce kits for 3 point units but that's not in the scope of a standard 3 point.

 

[MagKarl]

Well, it depends on the kind of 3 point you have, some will fight being pushed up or only allow it at a certain rate (hydraulic restriction). Draft control fights it being pulled down or the tractor being slowed. There have been various 3 point control systems.

Now, on my L3200, any really sudden changes in pitch are resisted by the 3 point, only the mower with that really long stretch seems to be able to force it to move upward quickly. The box blade just digs in harder for a moment before being slowly moved up.

The FEL happily floats up or down with sudden changes, so to me that's a true float.

Maybe it would be better to call it a 'restricted' float to be more accurate for these Kubota's.

QUOTE]

Sorry, but this would not be accurate at all. Go lift up your 3 pt arms by hand the next time you have no implement on. Then drop the arms. Come back then and tell us how much "restriction" you have.

Standard 3 pt's will lift only as high as the control lever is set to, but are free to ride up and down above this level.

 

[ShaunRH]

Already tried MagKarl. I had to pick them up with the hydraulics and I can only lift them easily with the slop in the linkages. If it keep constant pressure on them they go up slowly, but it's not a rapid rise at all. Maybe because it's a new unit, under 10 hours, or it might be because I'm not a weight lifter capable of exerting hundreds of pounds of upward force on it.

The Oliver 1265 I drive is a bit more forgiving but it's hydraulics are old and worn out on the 3 point, it won't hold an up position for long. It still has some drag lifting though, you can't just move it up like you were lifting a 5 gallon fuel tank, there is a restriction it's just much less than the L3200.

I think you and I have a definitional difference at to what floating is. My definition relies on a weight only (discounting any implement settings (but not flow restriction)) restriction to rising. Anything else to me is not a true 'free' float.

So, for sake of argument I surrender, your definition is correct. 3 point hitches float without restriction.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Hi Shaun and Mag Karl, well the dealer delivered my blade today, and so I asked about the "float" referred to in my user manual, and found out a couple of things. There is no special spot on the lever in spite of it being labeled on the diagram as "float" in the all the way down position. It is not like the float detente on the FEL. If I understood correctly " down" is gravity driven. There is a knob that adjusts the speed of lowering and it works by restricting the amount of hydraulic fluid going through a line. Close that valve and the whole thing doesn't budge. "Up" is always the same speed. There is a mechanical stop to prevent one from lowering the blade too far. He also said that there are other kinds of tractors that work differently, maybe Case, and several others. What I am wondering is if it would be easier to push the hitch up (eg by going over a bump) if that valve is open than if it is part way closed? I don't know what the plumbing looks like in these, if the fluid can flow in either direction, or how the pump actually works to lift things for that matter. He thought it might kind of float if I backed up, with the convex side of the blade hitting first. Otherwise he thought I'd peel the grass right off. Next problem is the blade didn't come with the right pins and bushings to attach to the quick attach device. Off to TSC next week. Thanks guys! Learning a lot from your posts.

 

[lddykstra]

I added adjustable guage wheels to the rear of my blade last winter and really love them.
NO more digging into my gravel or grass. When I want to do the concrete areas then i just raise up the guage wheels.

On grass I usually try to run the blade edge about 1" off the ground with the wheel setting.

Here is a video of it in action.
Link to the Video

Here is a picture. (Still needs orange paint)

 

[sheepfarmer]

Love the hydraulic angle adjuster and the wheels!!! Now all I have to do is learn how to weld things....

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Sheepfarmer,

Welcome to the Orange.

I have had my tractor for about a year and only started playing with the 3pt recently. Just when I thought I knew what I was seeing, Wolfman threw me a curve. I played around with his comments and realized I was missing how these implements actually worked. One of the benefits of the experience here among "the Orange."

These comments apply to a box scraper, in case you get one, and not a single articulated "blade."

A box scraper has two blades. The forward and the rear. This allows you to "pull" material and to "push" it as well. The key is managing the angle your box scraper "attacks" the earth under tow or push. That "angle of attack" (AOA) is adjusted by the upper link.

If you lengthen the upper, the box will raise the forward blade. When dragging the box, if you go full down on the 3pt, the box will initially dig itself full of material and then rise up and float on the material. It is actually riding on the rear blade as the material is being compacted. This fills in voids and spreads really evenly, though it won't take out smoother gradual undulations in the ground because the box is floating about even to 1/4" below grade. You'll see smooth earth behind your tractor, with small spill piles along either side of the pass. The box will usually remain near full and toward the end of the pass, you'll have to lift up 1 inch and slowly empty the box or find yourself at the end of a pass with a box load load of material.

The same is true for reverse. If you shorten the upper link, you'll raise the AOA and the box will float on the forward most blade while the rear most blade does the cutting and pushing. Play around with it at the extremes of upper adjustment going forward and backwards and you'll get the hang of it.

If your ground is perfectly flat, you can get use out of the height stop. But, on undulating land, the box ( or scraper) will go up when the front wheels go down, and vice-versa. The rear wheels are the pivot point. This is the reason they invented 3pt float in an effort to de-couple the influence of movements of the tractor as much as possible. Its also the reason they invented the Land Plane.

It is VERY long and cuts down short-period undulations unlike anything attached to the back of a 3pt can. Plus, by being independent of any pitch change by the tractor, it gets things really level. A box or blade will get things "smooth" but not necessary "level."

Sad thing about Land Planes is, once you use them, they get very little use thereafter. The ones used to flatten out the Phoenix desert for farming have mostly been abandoned in place. Many have been scrapped.

Sorry to hijack the thread but, I hope this helps you get started. The first time I saw my box scraper dig in I was shocked. Had I let it fill and float back up, I would have figured it all out sooner.

Yeah, backing in float with the FEL can tear up earth with the sharp edge down. Try a flatter pass with the loader. You can adjust the rotation of the bucket while in float without messing up the float feature.

Most of all, HAVE FUN and post pictures!!!

Ray