hillside stability

[Otisdog]

I am preparing to close a deal for a L3800 with loader. I will be mowing some pretty steep hillsides. From reading threads I have found some opinions that the loader will create center of gravity problems while I had thought that it would help.

Now I'm thinking about giving up the loader and going to a L4600 for safety reasons. I don't really need the larger tractor for the work I will do. planting a few food plots and bush hogging 30 acres (some very steep)

I'm an inexperienced tractor user Mostly discing and bushogging flat ground

Will the larger tractor be safer on the hillsides
Does the loader create center of gravity issues when attached and bucket down

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Always mow or work up and down a hill side and NEVER sideways. Sideways is where you run a greater chance of flipping over and rolling down hill. Yes the L4600 would be a bit more stable then the L3800 since it has a wider rear end.

The loader I'm not 100% sure about, some say they leave it on for stability others say they take it off.

 

[Sterno]

I've got a feeling that if you skip the loader you'll regret it and need it.( Murphy's law and all that). I sure miss having one and think that a loader with a few hundred pounds of weight in the bucket, (nice and low & up front) makes me feel a good bit safer when going up a steep hill.

Standard wisdom is also to buy a tractor one size bigger than you think you'll need, you'll end up using it.
In short, if you can spring for a L4600 with a quick attach FEL I would go that route.

 

[Otisdog]

Thanks for your input. Unfortunately the L 4600 with a loader is out of my range right now. I'm hoping to make my deal next week.

 

[Tx Jim]

Wider wheel tread and lower ground clearance will give the best stability. As previously stated travel up/down incline not around incline. If boom on FEL stays low I can't see how loader would increase "instability". Wheel weights also help stability.

 

[Otisdog]

Would tires loaded with ballast work as well as wheel weights?

 

[TripleR]

This is an often discussed issue on several tractor sites, I once read one of about thirty pages or so and the posters got involved in technical calculations no one really understood and no consensus was reached.

I do not disagree mowing up and down slopes is safer, but I live and work in hill country where cross hill mowing and farming is as common and up and down. I run tractors on some really steep stuff and on the bad stuff will go up and down if at al possible and I feel safer with the FEL as a counter balance and you can put some dirt etc. in you bucket to keep the front down if you have concerns and when going downhill, you can use the bucket as a stop if you lose traction, I won't buy a tractor without a FEL. I sometimes mow with a FEL and sometimes take it off as it is a less than five minute job.

Fluid in the tires is a must for me for stability and traction. If you are going to go sideways I believe you can add spacers. I have no experience with the 3800 or 4600, so can only speak in general terms.

I am not advocating going across slopes, just saying it is common where I live and I do it routinely as it is often not practical to go up and down.

 

[number9]

I'm getting an L3800 with FEL and 60RC and 72"FM delivered Tue. I too have slopes to cut and decided on the above. I've read many discussions about mowing with the FEL on/off and the explanation that made the most sense to me was that due to the front axle pivoting in the center, if mowing side slope, the FEL (bucket empty or full) is a lot of weight hanging out in front of the tractor that could pull you on over if a wheel dropped in a hole or up on a rock/stump.

I have a pond at the bottom of one of the hillsides I need to mow, so I will be side slope at some point even if I run up and down. I will try just backing down the hill until the rear wheel of the deck gets to the edge of the water. If that don't work, I'll have to cut a strip around the edge of the pond (well several feet from the edge) and make my turn there if I can. If I do mow side slope I'm gonna do it with the FEL off. If backing down and driving back up the hill works, I'll have the bucket on with a load and skimming the ground. Of course this is just my plan, as this is my first tractor and I may find that what I'm thinking wont work as good as it sounds.

I have looked at wheel spacers and they can be had from a place that posts on tractorbynet in 2" solid aluminum (prob way I'll go) and also by a place called tracks works or something like that in 2-1/2", 3-1/2" and even 5" I think.


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[Stubbyie]

You'll find more uses for the loader than you can imagine. You need it. Also adds tremendously to resale value. Like another poster here, I quit buying tractors without loaders. Get the quick-attach type. Makes life so much easier and adds to utility of having loader.

I keep a few big rocks or chunks of concrete around to scoop up as ballast when needed.

Yes, a loader bucket can cause problems if you drop a front wheel off into a hole (beaver den in pond dam comes to mind) but you'll be glad you've got it a lot more than you'll ever regret it.

You can find a way to flip a tractor if you want to bad enough. Just be cautious and go slow when in doubt. Keep loader low always unless dumping into truck.

I too shred on hills and pond dams going 'around' not 'up and down' but can't recommend it. I've never flipped on but have some spots where the pucker factor increases to my personal limit just before things smooth out again.

In my state we lose three or four folks every year to tractor rollovers and have for the last twenty years. Be careful.

 

[gpreuss]

I have the L3200 - same tractor as the 3800, with fewer horses under the hood. I got R4 tires, but regret the choice - they are poor performers in mud or wet grass. On the good side, you can put about 400 lbs of ballast in each tire. R1's pull better in normal dirt, and steer better, and adjust out to a wider stance than the R4's.
I use spacers from thetrackscompany.com - an ebay seller - to bring my rear width to about 66", the same width as the FEL bucket. With R4's you need spacers to put on tire chains, anyway. Kubota's spacers are less than an inch, and nearly as expensive.
I would go for the L3800 with the loader, and spacers to widen the stance. I always remove the FEL to mow - many times I had to quickly ground the bucket to save myself, but then needed to add front weights to keep the front wheels steering, particularly when you try to turn uphill. I built a bumper looking weight with about 240lbs of steel. Photos are in the fabrications section.
Whatever you do is a compromise. You WANT a FEL, it is the handiest thing to have on a tractor. But it adds considerably to the pucker-factor. When you take it off, you need front weights. Suitcase weights interfere with the loader, and are a pain in the back to be taking on and off. You want your tractor as wide as possible, but not much wider than the loader bucket. With the loader, you will need rear ballast in addition to filled tires. I have a heavy duty Rhino rear blade that does OK, or a 600lb concrete block that does quite well. R4 tires hold more ballast, have a wider tread and are lower to the ground, but do poorly in mud or wet grass. Overall, I really wish I'd gone for the AG's. The bigger tractor costs a lot more...

 

[gpreuss]

I'm getting an L3800 with FEL and 60RC and 72"FM delivered Tue. I too have slopes to cut and decided on the above. I've read many discussions about mowing with the FEL on/off and the explanation that made the most sense to me was that due to the front axle pivoting in the center, if mowing side slope, the FEL (bucket empty or full) is a lot of weight hanging out in front of the tractor that could pull you on over if a wheel dropped in a hole or up on a rock/stump.

I have a pond at the bottom of one of the hillsides I need to mow, so I will be side slope at some point even if I run up and down. I will try just backing down the hill until the rear wheel of the deck gets to the edge of the water. If that don't work, I'll have to cut a strip around the edge of the pond (well several feet from the edge) and make my turn there if I can. If I do mow side slope I'm gonna do it with the FEL off. If backing down and driving back up the hill works, I'll have the bucket on with a load and skimming the ground. Of course this is just my plan, as this is my first tractor and I may find that what I'm thinking wont work as good as it sounds.

I have looked at wheel spacers and they can be had from a place that posts on tractorbynet in 2" solid aluminum (prob way I'll go) and also by a place called tracks works or something like that in 2-1/2", 3-1/2" and even 5" I think.


...

I was going to build my own spacers much like Kubota's, but about 3" wide. When I priced it all out, it was prohibitive. Grade 8 metric all-thread rod was $80 a stick, and you will need two of them! If you go for the aluminum spacers, make sure they include the hardware!!

 

[phaser]

Always mow or work up and down a hill side and NEVER sideways. Sideways is where you run a greater chance of flipping over and rolling down hill.

Up and down makes sense. But what happens when you need to do the 180 on the slope? Seems making the turns going up and down are just as risky.

Today, I was mowing with my first tractor purchase (last week), a B7100, with brush hog, and FEL. My property is sloped, and I was cutting sideways.

As I started a turn to the downhill side (no space for an uphill turn) I nearly tipped over when the downhill front wheel hit a soft spot (FEL was down low).

This was my first time out on the tractor, and needless to say that was very scary.

 

[number9]

Yep. I had my tractor tip over and hit the front axle stop once - bucket was full and I raised it to dump and the left rear wheel rolled up on a windrow of dirt just at the same time. Scared me to death!!

On the slope stability topic....I got 3" wheel spacers on mine with the R1 wheels set out all the way. It made a big difference on the slopes. My pond bank gets to 20-25 degree slope in a couple places. It's took a while to get my pucker meter adjusted to mow those spots sideways, but I've done it a couple times. Still don't like it and go SLOW when doing it. I stopped on the 20 degree spot once and shook the tractor hard as I could and it was like doing it on flat ground. I still don't like the feeling though.

...

 

[cerlawson]

If you are uneasy about side hill work, consider a test. I did this for lawn tractors and side hill mowing Since they had no roll bars. Pick the steepest place and where up hill there is a level place, such as a road. With another tractor or a vehicle with trailer hitch on the road, tie the anchor vehicle to the test tractor with a strong rope or chain. The location for securing to the test tractor should be as high as possible, such as on the roll bars. Then, with the two going parallel, you can test how the situation goes. If nothing happens, such as up hill wheel not losing traction, with the rope a little slack, try to tip things over by hand. If you still can't make it tilt some, well that tells you some thing about how safe you are there.

As to mowing, that belly mower lowers the center of gravity and is safer than pulling a rear mower that may be placing little weight on rear.

While I like a FEL, having it on places the center of gravity somewhat forward and with a pivoting front axle, I think it is not as safe as without it. That pivoting is somewhat similar to a tri-cycle wheel situation and we know they are much worse than with 4 wheels. It all comes down to location of center of gravity and the over-turning moment arm. If you have the center of gravity on the rear axle are, that is the safest for side hill work, but not good for going up hill. So a compromise is necessary. Low center of gravity is best for both situations. As a tip gets started, the moment arm for resisting gets smaller, resulting in even worse stability. So, don't even start into a tip, since stopping it is near impossible. All except for when a bucket is high. Lowering it helps immediately. Otherwise, it is too late.

 

[cerlawson]

One more point about stability, the location of center of gravity and the effect of a front axle with pivot. Take a kids toy wagon, with the typical front axle that has some pivoting capability. Place a concrete block in the back end and take it to a steep side hill and check the tendency to tip. At that same place then put the block at the front end and try again. That tells me. except for needing some steering ability, you don't need extra weight up front.

Also,also try turning up hill as well as down hill for a 180 and check stability, even though not exactly duplicating a non turning axle pivot. As you do, the slope effect changes the moment arm length. Moment arm is what one might call the lever arm. It's a structural engineering term. One wants to keep it as long as possible, measured horizontally from the axis of rotation (a line from rear tire to front tire) to the center of gravity at failure. Before that, the axis of rotation is a line from the rear tire to the pivot. Thus, you can see the need for the down-hill front wheel to be on solid ground at all times.

 

[turlough]

Fellows rather than mowing either up/down on slopes or mowing along the slope is going to be hard on your equipment, your frame of mind and your body. In road construction we always graded steep slopes on the diagonal. Mowing on a 45 degree angle will eliminate the stability problems addressed in this forum.

 

[tsafa]

I was just wondering if removing the quick-release bucket would make a difference is this situation?

 

[Bluegill]

I was just wondering if removing the quick-release bucket would make a difference is this situation?

Not much. I just remove the complete loader. Takes 5 minutes and I much prefer to mow with the loader Off!!! More stable with FEL off... I also need no extra weigh added to the front, like was said earlier in this thread.

 

[Diydave]

There are other methods of cutting steep areas, but what I generally do is to mow around the perimeter of the field, till the slope becomes uncomfortable. Then when you have a few steep "islands" unmowed, go up and down the hill. Fluid is not necessary, if you can find a set of farmall weights, like off of a 140, or cub, they will bolt up to most 24" rims. I have a Kubota L2202 (kioti) that I use to bush hog with, the weights bolt up (use 7/16"bolts, instead of the 1/2" bolts that the 140 used). May be my 3rd post here, but I have about 25 years experience, at this rodeo. You use what's available, when cash isn't!