Here's why you wear a seat belt with ROPS system

[Freeheeler]

I understand and agree with that--probably should have left it as data denier. However, when 99% of folks in a seatbelt with ROPS are uninjured and 130 folks die from rollovers a YEAR (129 lives saved by the SEATBELT) and folks still want to argue that it makes no difference I think its appropriate to use.

Kind of like 'flat earth' folks. We have photos from space, satellites send signals from above while they are in orbit.. clearly science/data deniers. Sometimes its appropriate, maybe even necessary, to use as there is no other explanation for their point of view.

I wouldn't classify myself as a data denier, I've never said that seatbelts didn't save lives. I don't deny the numbers in the study, but I also don't deny the numbers that aren't mentioned in the study. Those studies don't mention that 100% of lives are saved by avoiding the rollover in the first place. 129 lives save by the seatbelt. How many millions of lives saved by the operator not rolling over in the first place? I'd rather choose to concentrate on what I'm doing and not tip over then to wear my seatbelt and hope for the best. I'm not saying to never wear a seatbelt, I'm saying that if you pay attention to what you're doing and understand the laws of physics, the tip overs can be avoided and the seatbelt becomes a non-issue. I'm certain that if you got the data from that study and looked at the cause of the tip overs, they would be from operator error. A few might be mechanical failure, but isn't that operator error too, not maintaining your equipment? Except for that sink hole pictured earlier, getting caught in that would be plain bad luck

 

[ctfjr]

They are called accidents for a reason whether in a car or on a tractor. My granddaughter was in one 2 months ago. She was wearing her seatbelt. Not a scratch on her. New car totaled.

Syd's head on collision

 

[Freeheeler]

They are called accidents for a reason whether in a car or on a tractor. My granddaughter was in one 2 months ago. She was wearing her seatbelt. Not a scratch on her. New car totaled.

Syd's head on collision

Glad she was OK, not always the case even with the seatbelt. With a car, even if you do everything right, some fool can still involve you in a wreck. On my tractor, there are no other fools around. If I have a problem it's because I was the fool and I would not call that an accident, I would call that a choice (a foolish one).

 

[doublebass73]

The best piece of safety gear we have is our brain, the best way to avoid rollovers is by using our brain and minimizing risk. That being said, I wear a seatbelt on my tractor at all times just in case I have one of those days where I'm not 100% on my game. We're all human and capable of mistakes. I consider myself a safe operator but I don't let my ego get so big to think that I couldn't possible make a mistake. I think everyone should decide for themselves whether they want to wear seatbelts though. I also live in NH so I appreciate that we don't have seat belt laws or helmet laws. I don't need the government forcing me to do anything. We're all adults and capable of making that decision on our own.

 

[aaluck]

I'd rather choose to concentrate on what I'm doing and not tip over then to wear my seatbelt and hope for the best.

Good, valid points. So, I'm assuming that you don't wear your seatbelt in the car as well. After all if you concentrate on what your doing its unnecessary as you can avoid all accidents. I'm also guessing that you have no PTO shields as well since if you concentrate on what your doing all accidents can be avoided there as well.

I grew up on a farm (crops and dairy) in WI and started driving tractors unsupervised at about 12, so about 40 years of experience to date. Between ages 12 and about 19 daily usage. That being said I would never be so arrogant to believe that my judgment and concentration is so great that I cannot make a mistake on a tractor.

Now I'm not familiar with the B2650, maybe you can just step out of it and its 6-7 inches off the ground. But I can tell you that I could barely get in and out of our old 1980's Deere 2950--let alone hurl myself to safety if I were to tip over. Trust me that LAST thing I want is to sound like Joe Biden but... grandpa used to say...do you want to be strapped to the seat or under one of these 5 foot tires..

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: So, I'm assuming that you don't wear your seatbelt in the car as well. After all if you concentrate on what your doing its unnecessary as you can avoid all accidents

totally different situation, for the most part.
driving a car means there's 100s if not 1,000s of other drivers to deal with... farm tractoring is usually just you, maybe 1 other tractor or combine in the field ?
Also car drivers are NOT well educated with respect to their vehicle or road conditions when compared to a farmer plowing his field. I constantly see car drivers yammering on their phones, exceeding the speed limit, etc. Never ever heard of a farmer 'plowing to fast'....

 

[NHSleddog]

Well there are a lot of other issues with an open air roll over than just the roll. Have you ever seen anyone empalled by a branch in the woods? How about being crushed by the tree you rolled next to? Or the stump? Or the rock? I guess I am the only one out in the woods.

Science denier? ROFLMAO. Comparing tractoring to cars - now that is denying science.

AND FOR ANYONE THAT MADE IT THIS FAR.......

The video the OP posted had a operator WITHOUT a seatbelt WALK AWAY. He actually ran away and then headed after the tractor. If he WAS wearing the belt the outcome would have been different, not saying he would have been hurt, but it would have been a different outcome. I wonder if he knew he was denying science at the time - living and running away the way he did- lol.

 

[Freeheeler]

Good, valid points. So, I'm assuming that you don't wear your seatbelt in the car as well. After all if you concentrate on what your doing its unnecessary as you can avoid all accidents. I'm also guessing that you have no PTO shields as well since if you concentrate on what your doing all accidents can be avoided there as well.
That being said I would never be so arrogant to believe that my judgment and concentration is so great that I cannot make a mistake on a tractor.

I always wear my seatbelt in the car truck and jeep, never on the motorcycle or boat, and rarely on the tractor. They are all different vehicles in different situations. You did guess right in that I have no PTO shields, I either have the backhoe on or a box blade. Zero risk of PTO injury so zero need for a shield. Most of the work I do on the tractor has a zero percent risk of tipping or rolling over so zero need for the seat belt. I don't think that's arrogance, I call that risk analysis.
As far as making mistakes, I'm old enough and have made enough of them that now I concentrate on avoiding the hospital and repair bills.
I think Doublebass summed up my thought process in his first sentence above.

 

[Freeheeler]

This thread has got me thinking that it would be nice to have a thread specifically where folks that have had a roll over can describe what happened and why. If it helps someone avoid a roll over then its a thread worth having.
Stay safe out there and make wise choices.

 

[D2Cat]

Why not a specific thread on SAFETY (in general)?

 

[aaluck]

This thread has got me thinking that it would be nice to have a thread specifically where folks that have had a roll over can describe what happened and why. If it helps someone avoid a roll over then its a thread worth having.
Stay safe out there and make wise choices.

That's actually a very good idea. I'd start it but I've never rolled over.

 

[BigG]

That's actually a very good idea. I'd start it but I've never rolled over.

Well. go do it and report back to us,. We can wait awhile.

 

[GeoHorn]

....How many millions of lives saved by the operator not rolling over in the first place? I'd rather choose to concentrate on what I'm doing and not tip over then to wear my seatbelt and hope for the best. ....

That is one of the worst examples of mis-used logic I’ve seen in awhile.
YOu know , if people would just stay in bed.... seat belts wouldn’t be so dangerous!

Aaluck: One of the other ”data-denier” and “flat-earth” fallacies is the belief that Christopher Columbus proved that the earth was not flat... or that Copernicus proved it... etc etc.
In fact, the earth was known to be “round” many centuries earlier by anyone who watched the phases of the moon .... (such as the Mayans, Aztecs, Greeks, Egyptians...the list goes on...). Because anyone with a brain and eyes could SEE the CURVATURE of the EARTH as it’s shadow crosses the moon.
Flat-Earth believers have had Brain-Flatulence since time-immemorial.... (and it appears to be on the “rise” again in present times!).

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Because anyone with a brain and eyes could SEE the CURVATURE of the EARTH as it’s shadow crosses the moon.

that presupposes you HAVE a Knowledge of 'modern day science'. Some early people were convence the Sun and Moon were gods.....

 

[random]

re: Because anyone with a brain and eyes could SEE the CURVATURE of the EARTH as it’s shadow crosses the moon.

Don't know about you, but it's visible to me when looking out over the ocean.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I didn't say it....actually Geohorn said it, I was re:ferring to his comment...

 

[Freeheeler]

That is one of the worst examples of mis-used logic I’ve seen in awhile.
YOu know , if people would just stay in bed.... seat belts wouldn’t be so dangerous!

Yes, I admit I worded that badly. I was referring to the fact that the studies only include the folks that rolled over. The don't take into account the times folks paid full attention to what they were doing, analyzed the risk, and avoided the rollover in the first place. Those are the millions I was talking about, not the millions staying in bed

 

[GeoHorn]

Yes, I admit I worded that badly. I was referring to the fact that the studies only include the folks that rolled over. The don't take into account the times folks paid full attention to what they were doing, analyzed the risk, and avoided the rollover in the first place. Those are the millions I was talking about, not the millions staying in bed

Why would a seat-belt study as it applies to ROPS and Roll-overs .... include any statistics that do not involve roll-overs?
Would a brake-efficiency study include examples of brakes never-applied? Would a study comparing the temperature at which water boils at sea-level versus on top of Mt Olympia ...include comparisons of water which is not heated?

The ONLY information of effectiveness of seat belt usage when ROPs-equipped tractors roll-over.... is when seat-belts are worn....or not worn..... when ROPs-equipped tractors are rolled.

People in bed or in tractors that didn’t roll over are not germane.

 

[GeoHorn]

re: Because anyone with a brain and eyes could SEE the CURVATURE of the EARTH as it’s shadow crosses the moon.

that presupposes you HAVE a Knowledge of 'modern day science'. Some early people were convence the Sun and Moon were gods.....

THAT...presupposes that “modern day” includes 500 years before Christ.

From Wikipedia: “ The earliest documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it was mentioned by ancient Greek philosophers.[1][2] In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of the Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference....”

AND... THAT is only the DOCUMENTED mention.... it likely pre-dates that by quite some time.

Spherical Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Freeheeler]

The ONLY information of effectiveness of seat belt usage when ROPs-equipped tractors roll-over.... is when seat-belts are worn....or not worn..... when ROPs-equipped tractors are rolled.

People in bed or in tractors that didn’t roll over are not germane.

Yes, that would be a retrospective study crunching numbers on roll-overs, which is good information, but to draw a conclusion that seatbelts save 99% of lives is inaccurate. You'd have to repeat all those roll-overs reversing whether the seat belt was worn or not, to draw an accurate conclusion. That's not going to happen. It does in the car industry, they crash test, varying the parameters to gain accurate conclusions.

My statement was more to the point of ... in a situation where there is potential for a rollover, what saves more lives? Seat belts, or something else? I'm saying something else. Straps to prevent a load from shifting to prevent the roll over. Wheel spacers to widen the footprint and increase the amount of force needed to cause a roll over. Properly positioned ballast to prevent the roll over. Going straight up a hill as opposed to ascending at an angle to prevent a roll over. Inspecting the terrain so you can avoid unexpected dips/holes/loose ground/etc so you avoid a roll over. An inclinometer mounted to your dash so you know exactly how far tilted your tractor so you can avoid a roll over. etc, etc.

My point being, a retrospective roll over study does not give an accurate picture of what saves lives in a potential roll over situation. I am more concerned about what is going to happen on my tractor than I am about what has happened in past roll overs and if they were wearing a seat belt or not. I'd rather look at the circumstances that led to the roll over and use safety measures to prevent it than to ignore those factors and wear a seatbelt thinking "the study says I'm 99% safe". I would like to think that most of us here would rather spend a little more time analyzing the situation, and a little more concentration on what we are doing at any given time to prevent a roll over. The reality is that roll overs still happen, not because of seat belt use or non use but because of not analyzing the situation and not concentrating of what is happening.

I hope that the next time anyone is in a situation where there is the potential for enough force to cause a roll over, they stop and think and do what they can to prevent it. Stay safe and make wise choices out there. Wear a seat belt, wear a helmet, install and airbag if you wish, but don't rely on them to save your life. Rely on yourself and your choices.