Guns...Times have changed...

Bmyers

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I have an idea about how the 'government' will try to remove 'legal' guns, but I have no idea on how the government will remove illegal guns. Any guesses? :oops:
No government has ever been successful with removing illegal guns.

If you want to remove illegal guns, make them legal guns and then all illegal guns are gone and you can claim that you have removed 100% of the illegal guns.
 
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Biker1mike

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An official with the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Explosives (ATF) – the federal agency under the Department of Justice (DOJ) tasked with tracking and recovering trafficked weapons – told Fox News that “guns enter illegal commerce through one of three ways.”

The first is by private transactions in which guns bought at gun shows, flea markets or through private sales are later sold to prohibited persons.

The second, the official underscored, was by straw purchasers – individuals who buy guns from dealers and transfer them to prohibited persons.

The third category is theft from gun dealers and private citizens. Gun traffickers transfer guns from legal commerce to illegal commerce and are “considered to be violent criminals,” the official said.
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IMHO: A small percent of legit gun owners/dealers seem to be major source of illegal guns. Like a doctor selling drugs, perhaps some pro gun groups need to look inward at the problem.

The third category shows a true lack of security by owners/dealers or intentional. Dealer lets his stock get robbed for a fee. He collects the insurance and the guns are long gone.
 

Bmyers

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An official with the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Explosives (ATF) – the federal agency under the Department of Justice (DOJ) tasked with tracking and recovering trafficked weapons – told Fox News that “guns enter illegal commerce through one of three ways.”

The first is by private transactions in which guns bought at gun shows, flea markets or through private sales are later sold to prohibited persons.

The second, the official underscored, was by straw purchasers – individuals who buy guns from dealers and transfer them to prohibited persons.

The third category is theft from gun dealers and private citizens. Gun traffickers transfer guns from legal commerce to illegal commerce and are “considered to be violent criminals,” the official said.
....................................................................................................
IMHO: A small percent of legit gun owners/dealers seem to be major source of illegal guns. Like a doctor selling drugs, perhaps some pro gun groups need to look inward at the problem.

The third category shows a true lack of security by owners/dealers or intentional. Dealer lets his stock get robbed for a fee. He collects the insurance and the guns are long gone.
Thieves will be thieves and just as tools has improved, so has their toolset. Laws that require law abiding citizens to disarm and leave their firearms inside their vehicles is a major issue. Most portable gun safes can be breached in minutes and quicker with experience.

You state a small percentage of legit gun owners are the problem. I counter with the fact that if you selling to prohibited person/straw purchasing, you are NOT a legit gun owner. You are criminal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't make you a legit gun owner, you are in fact a criminal.

Legit gun owners are NOT the problem and only pulled into the problem by the gun laws that force them to disarm and leave their firearm in a less secure position than on their person.

If the politicians wanted to do something useful, you require the business/government facilities that require law abiding citizens to disarm to provide secure storage places for the firearms while the person is being required to disarm.
 
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Crash277

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Thieves will be thieves and just as tools has improved, so has their toolset. Laws that require law abiding citizens to disarm and leave their firearms inside their vehicles is a major issue. Most portable gun safes can be breached in minutes and quicker with experience.

You state a small percentage of legit gun owners are the problem. I counter with the fact that if you selling to prohibited person/straw purchasing, you are NOT a legit gun owner. You are criminal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't make you a legit gun owner, you are in fact a criminal.

Legit gun owners are NOT the problem and only pulled into the problem by the gun laws that force them to disarm and leave their firearm in a less secure position than on their person.

If the politicians wanted to do something useful, you require the business/government facilities that require law abiding citizens to disarm to provide secure storage places for the firearms while the person is being required to disarm.

100%

last time i looked at canada stats it was around .04% chance of a legal gun owner doing something illegal. i am not sure if in that .04% they count the folks who are criminals who takes the courses pass the background checks; get a license and their criminal job is to not be a criminal so they can buy guns and ammo....
 
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chim

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The government doesn’t want to take our guns. That’s the biggest deterrent to keep North Korea, China or Pootin from attacking us. WE are more powerful than the military in some respects.
I believe many in our government really DO want to disarm us. Although our northern and southern neighbors are friends, I believe that our guns keep Canada and Mexico from attacking us. North Korea, China and the Russians can't carpool to our borders. No way they could land enough troops for an attack.

Other than the obvious threats from within, our vulnerabilities are from nukes or 9/11 style attacks. The porous borders can be a real threat for small groups and the "lone wolf" with intent to do us harm.
 
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Flintknapper

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In my opinion, the most effective way to keep guns out of the hands of people who are not supposed to have them is to offer gun safety courses.
Huh.........?

For the most part people who "are not supposed to have them" are either criminals or folks otherwise disqualified from owning/possessing a firearm. We have laws against that....that simply need to be rigidly enforced.

Unless I misunderstand your meaning.....you are describing safe gun handling practices. Something quite apart from ones right to ownership.

Certainly we want folks to handle firearms in a safe and responsible manner. But it is incumbent on the gun owner to seek out the information/training if they don't already have it....in order to be the safest they can be.
 

lugbolt

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You state a small percentage of legit gun owners are the problem. I counter with the fact that if you selling to prohibited person/straw purchasing, you are NOT a legit gun owner. You are criminal. Just because you haven't been caught, doesn't make you a legit gun owner, you are in fact a criminal.
It will be impossible for any government to confiscate or even limit private transfer of firearms. For one, there is not enough resources available for them to monitor all transactions. Two, monitoring all private transfers kind of sets a precedence in that it goes against the very foundation of the USA's economic system. Monitoring even private transfers of firearm sales could very easily be expanded to monitoring every single transfer of ownership of everything you own/buy/sell. And that in itself is part of dictatorial ways of doing things, where the government has full control of your private lives. I don't think anyone wants that.

but it wouldn't surprise me if "they" try it.

Then you have the issue of private sellers. If I were a gun owner and wanted to sell it, and I had to fill out paperwork and/or verify the buyer, that is a huge headache for the vast majority of legal sellers. So if I had a car and wanted to sell it for whatever reason, should I have to go through the hassle of a background check on the potential buyers? I absolutely do not have that kind of time, nor the money to do that. And again, sets that precedent. Implementation of such a system could also be expanded to cars being sold to drunks, or pencils being thrown away and ending up in a prison where it becomes a shank to off a cellmate, then it could be traced back to the person who throwed it away. At that point the "seller" is then a criminal, and how many new correctional facilities are being built to house them? They're already FULL. What about the justice system? Gotta have more people to handle it, from the bottom (enforcement officers) all the way to judges, attorneys, public defenders, more courthouses to house them all, more taxes to pay 'em, you get the idea.

If I sold a car and the buyer gets drunk and kills a family does that make me liable? Once I am no longer the owner and the transfer of ownership is done, I am no longer liabl and that's the way it should be. I didn't get drunk and crash; the driver did much the same as if a new owner of a private-sale firearm transfers ownership, then it's not the prior owner's responsibility as to what the new owner does with it. That's just stupid to hold the prior liable but it's also the only way that liberals can gain control over your freedoms--e.g., "backdoor laws". Yeah, so if so-and-such runs off and shoots someone, why is the ammunition manufacturer liable for that? The ammo maker didn't pull the trigger. Guns don't just go off on their own ya know. So dumb butt attorneys go after 'em anyway saying "there should have been a label that says cartridges are dangerous"-or some stupid stuff like that. "Backdoor". Money grab if you ask a lot of people. Makes an attorney rich and makes a news story and that's about it. Noone else benefits, many just the opposite. Attorneys that might be reading this take note, there is a such thing as attorney ethics and it appears that attorneys in general are throwing that to the wayside in favor of a big fat paycheck.
 

Flintknapper

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So dumb butt attorneys go after 'em anyway saying "there should have been a label that says cartridges are dangerous"-or some stupid stuff like that. "Backdoor". Money grab if you ask a lot of people. Makes an attorney rich and makes a news story and that's about it. Noone else benefits, many just the opposite. Attorneys that might be reading this take note, there is a such thing as attorney ethics and it appears that attorneys in general are throwing that to the wayside in favor of a big fat paycheck.
Sadly the other half of that equation are gullible or worse (sympathetic) juries.

Unscrupulous Attorneys (that might be redundant) might throw it out there, but a jury has to take the bait.
 

Henro

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I happened on this today. Amazing on how effectively creative some people can be. RE the Abe killing in Japan.

247F430F-E0D5-4AD8-9082-45B204B3CE0F.png
 
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Bmyers

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The reality is that making firearms is not that difficult. They have been being made for hundreds of years. Has the quality and capability of the firearms increased? Yes, but the basic simple firearm can be made with items found in most peoples garages.
 

Flintknapper

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The reality is that making firearms is not that difficult. They have been being made for hundreds of years. Has the quality and capability of the firearms increased? Yes, but the basic simple firearm can be made with items found in most peoples garages.
^^^^^
Damn it......now the Libs are going to have to start banning garages!

And I kind of like my garage. ;)

You are right of course.
 
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hagrid

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The reality is that making firearms is not that difficult. They have been being made for hundreds of years. Has the quality and capability of the firearms increased? Yes, but the basic simple firearm can be made with items found in most peoples garages.
Cap'n Kirk did something similar and he had to make his own propellant to boot.
 
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aaluck

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The bottom line is that the gun grabbers are not going to be satisfied until the make all gun owners criminals with new laws. They are starting with the dreaded 'assault rifle', but it will not end there.

From there they will 'realize' that the dreaded 'assault rifle' is nothing more than a semi-automatic weapon. So we now need to ban all semi-automatic weapons.

At that point about 32% of all US citizens, over the age of 18 (44% of all US households) will be criminals. What will be interesting is how will they enforce these new laws?
 

GreensvilleJay

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Sadly up here two 'indigenous' (aka 'natives') slaughtered 11 on the Cree reserve and hacked up another 18-19 nearby. After 2 days 'the media/cop' finally say they are brothers, one has 59 convictions and warrants out. Happened in Saskatchewan... one still on the loose...
 

Bmyers

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Sadly up here two 'indigenous' (aka 'natives') slaughtered 11 on the Cree reserve and hacked up another 18-19 nearby. After 2 days 'the media/cop' finally say they are brothers, one has 59 convictions and warrants out. Happened in Saskatchewan... one still on the loose...
Evil is evil, regardless of the tool they use. Once we can get beyond focusing on the tool(s) and start focusing on the evil heart, then we might make progress in dealing with such matters.

59 convictions and warrants and the person still loose in society. :mad:
 
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OrangeKrush

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Exactly. Than again, there are plenty of "tools" out there to focus on as well.
Yep.. knives, clubs, bricks, fist from whimps that like to beat up on women and men with their backs turned!🙄
 

skeets

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The whole gun debate is about one thing and one thing only, and that is control. If a populace cannot defend them selves from the evil that is all around them, then they have to look to big brother to take care of them. Protect ,feed house, medicate, cradle to grave. And they cannot control you if you can think and defend your self.
 
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