Gun haters have a new problem

[Mark_BX25D]

I am unsure why you would not elaborate. Just read above!

I generally don't like spreading information that is useful to criminals, so I wasn't going to give the details. But then I saw that you had already explained it. No sense in repeating it.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Relative to the thread title, it’s not a new problem…it’s their same problem, and really they (haters) should blame their parents.

 

[WoodKutter]

Guns are not that complicated, atleast many are not. Any machine shop, even some home shops could turn out a gun. In simpler times the village blacksmith sometimes did.

 

[JimmyJazz]

Most of the criminals are too dumb to make anything on a 3D printer.

 

[Grindstone]

I've seen on one of those forensic files shows how they could bring the serial # back after it had been filed off. They used acid or something to revive the number just enough to be readable again.

 

[Daren Todd]

I've seen on one of those forensic files shows how they could bring the serial # back after it had been filed off. They used acid or something to revive the number just enough to be readable again.

I do that with worn out metal serial number plates on engines at work. I'll keep my phone unlocked with the camera turned on. Soak the tag with brake cleaner and it makes the numbers stand out better till it dries. I then snap a quick photo.

 

[lynnmor]

I've seen on one of those forensic files shows how they could bring the serial # back after it had been filed off. They used acid or something to revive the number just enough to be readable again.

I usually stamp new numbers right over the originals, and then file them off.

 

[Henro]

No intention of doing such a thing, but wonder if I ran a small bead with my TIG torch, over where the serial number was ground off, if that would change anything regarding possible X-ray discovery of the missing SN?

 

[FTG-05]

Tried that. With drugs also. Didn't work so now drugs are becoming legal, criminals are being released and guns are a problem.

It should have been obvious that it was a rhetorical question: Banning criminals solves the problem; ergo they don't want to solve the problem. They want to ban guns. But only guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens; which by the by, is the opposite of criminals.

Duh.

 

[The Evil Twin]

It should have been obvious that it was a rhetorical question: Banning criminals solves the problem; ergo they don't want to solve the problem. They want to ban guns. But only guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens; which by the by, is the opposite of criminals.

Duh.

Oh, I know. My (and others) sarcasm doesn't convey well over the keyboard

 

[ACDII]

Well, I am sure most of us know that Pollyticians are not bright enough to understand that Criminals ignore laws. Criminals have guns, so lets make more laws making it illegal. Criminals just say, bring it.

Locks only keep law abiding out, Gun Laws only keep law abiding from freedom.

This latest refresh of the AWB is another round of unConstitutional bills. Hopefully the Senate makes it DOA, or back to SCOTUS it goes.

 

[Jchonline]

I am surprised no one has corrected you on this. You could always file it off and send it to ATF. It won’t take long before they knock on your door (if it’s a recent purchase anyway). When ever you stamp or press metal, all the metal under the stamp is compressed. All they do is file the damage off and stick it under an X-ray. The pressed in digits are there. Theoretically you could remove enough metal, but depending on depth and the rounds you use that would be problematic.

The X-ray systems they use are commonly found in the aviation industry. Lots of aircraft metal parts and components get xrayed routinely. There’s even “true crime” shows that expressly mention this technique for crime solving regarding guns.

Not pulling your leg here. I have purchased and used those systems. Do you have any idea how human X-ray systems are checked for calibration? You radiograph a tool. The tool is metal and you read the depth of the data in the X-ray image. X-ray systems are built for this. So, Yeah Nah. Don’t ever suggest the old file the serial number off trick, unless you want them to get caught.

I do have some other suggestions that would likely work if you have any nefarious needs however!

I most definitely do not. Thanks for the info it was helpful. I stand corrected!

 

[58Ford]

No intention of doing such a thing, but wonder if I ran a small bead with my TIG torch, over where the serial number was ground off, if that would change anything regarding possible X-ray discovery of the missing SN?

Not 100% sure on this. It may depend on how thorough you were. The X-ray tech these days is used to examine deep welds in shipping, aircraft, even autos. They are looking for flaws - like fractures, gaps and/or holes buried.

During a mechanical pressing process (also sometimes done while the metal is at temp) it effects the metal on the molecular level. That is what becomes radio opaque - the compression itself. Going over it again with new punches (as suggested earlier) would likely leave 2 numbers viewable but using software filters at different depths would eliminate the fake set. You would never be able to replicate a mechanical pressing using hand tools.

100% solution is to completely lathe/drill out the entire number completely through the metal. Thus making it unusable. You have to remember that most gun crimes are solved with the aid of ballistics. If you had a gun with all numbers obliterated and left the firing pin and barrel on you will be nailed just the same.

 

[Biker1mike]

In the urban areas around here it is just easier to buy a stolen gun or use a community gun. Given the limited number of people with access to a really good 3d printer the maker would be ratted out pretty darn fast.
IMHO: Besides, follow the money. If home grown 3d starts to hit the profits of gun manufacturers the problem will suddenly be solved.

 

[mcmxi]

I am surprised no one has corrected you on this. You could always file it off and send it to ATF. It won’t take long before they knock on your door (if it’s a recent purchase anyway). When ever you stamp or press metal, all the metal under the stamp is compressed. All they do is file the damage off and stick it under an X-ray. The pressed in digits are there. Theoretically you could remove enough metal, but depending on depth and the rounds you use that would be problematic.

The X-ray systems they use are commonly found in the aviation industry. Lots of aircraft metal parts and components get xrayed routinely. There’s even “true crime” shows that expressly mention this technique for crime solving regarding guns.

Not pulling your leg here. I have purchased and used those systems. Do you have any idea how human X-ray systems are checked for calibration? You radiograph a tool. The tool is metal and you read the depth of the data in the X-ray image. X-ray systems are built for this. So, Yeah Nah. Don’t ever suggest the old file the serial number off trick, unless you want them to get caught.

I do have some other suggestions that would likely work if you have any nefarious needs however!

The ATF has no control with how the serial number is put on a firearm, they only control the minimum depth of the markings and .003" is acceptable. Many companies laser engrave the serial number, some pin stamp, some roll stamp, some acid etch, some small outfits might even use a hammer and punch.

The idea that it's easy to recover a serial number and that there's no way to successfully remove all trace is laughable. Too many of you believe all of the fake BS "science" on shows like CSI.

Full disclosure: I've been a firearms engineer working for major firearms manufacturers for the past 12 years. I'm also an FFL 07/02 SOT holder which means I can (and do) manufacture and sell Title 1 and Title 2 firearms which includes machine guns, suppressors, SBRs and more.

 

[mcmxi]

People learned a long time ago that mythology is a powerful tool when it comes to controlling another group. Fear-based mythology has been used for thousands of years to control groups and individuals. All religions use fear-based mythology to some extent along with reward based mythology, e.g. do this and you go to heaven, do that and you go to hell.

The US government and entities such as the ATF learned that mythology can be used to control a percentage of the population. One such example is that firearms serial numbers when removed can easily or even always be recovered. The fearfull masses fall for this sort of mythology.

When I worked for Remington we'd have "forensic firearms examiners" tour the plant a couple of times a year. They'd spend two days learning how ammunition was made, and how the various parts of a cartridge might be helpful in making connections between ammunition components and firearms.

 

[58Ford]

You sound like you know everything. Nice for you! Here is the company I worked with. Mainly on the portable unit side. Have you ever been in one of their testing sites? I have.

Industrial Digital Radiography | Non-Destructive Testing | DÜRR NDT

Industrial X-ray inspection systems for non-destructive testing (NDT), computed radiography scanners, digital detector arrays, X-ray imaging software, X-ray film processors and chemicals.

www.duerr-ndt.com

Nobody here mentioned CSI. Also nobody here is going to admit - including you - that you have removed a serial number from a weapon successfully. And you know why.

I just know how to use the imaging gear and demonstrate its ability plus provide training. I love being told it never happened.

 

[mcmxi]

You sound like you know everything. Nice for you! Here is the company I worked with. Mainly on the portable unit side. Have you ever been in one of their testing sites? I have.

Industrial Digital Radiography | Non-Destructive Testing | DÜRR NDT

Industrial X-ray inspection systems for non-destructive testing (NDT), computed radiography scanners, digital detector arrays, X-ray imaging software, X-ray film processors and chemicals.

www.duerr-ndt.com

Nobody here mentioned CSI. Also nobody here is going to admit - including you - that you have removed a serial number from a weapon successfully. And you know why.

I just know how to use the imaging gear and demonstrate its ability plus provide training. I love being told it never happened.

I don't know everything, but I know a lot more than you and most here about firearms, that much is true. Are you going to be called into court to testify on anything firearms related? I can walk into just about any gun store in the country and buy products that I designed or worked on. I'm currently a firearms engineer and this is my world day in and day out.

I'm not going to provide a "how to" on removing serial numbers since I'm not that stupid. You can try to pass yourself off as some serial number expert but those of us that live and breathe this profession can sniff out a bullshitter in a heartbeat.

As for lab grade equipment, I ran SEM and XRD machines for 10 years working in a lab before moving into the firearms field so am very familiar with techniques for examining grain structure, intermetallic particles, elemental analysis etc.

 

[Flintknapper]

Well, I am sure most of us know that Pollyticians are not bright enough to understand that Criminals ignore laws. Criminals have guns, so lets make more laws making it illegal. Criminals just say, bring it.

Yeah, let's make it 'extra' illegal. Supersize it.

That'll stop 'em. Idiot Law Makers (read politician).

All we need to do is vigorously enforce the more than 200 gun laws on the books already, hand down severe sentences (no plea bargaining) and KEEP criminals in jail/prison where the miscreants belong.

 

[58Ford]

I don't know everything, but I know a lot more than you and most here about firearms, that much is true. Are you going to be called into court to testify on anything firearms related? I can walk into just about any gun store in the country and buy products that I designed or worked on. I'm currently a firearms engineer and this is my world day in and day out.

I'm not going to provide a "how to" on removing serial numbers since I'm not that stupid. You can try to pass yourself off as some serial number expert but those of us that live and breathe this profession can sniff out a bullshitter in a heartbeat.

As for lab grade equipment, I ran SEM and XRD machines for 10 years working in a lab before moving into the firearms field so am very familiar with techniques for examining grain structure, intermetallic particles, elemental analysis etc.

Sweet! Share your deets. I probably own some of your stuff? I am not passing myself off as anything. I know what I did for the last 10 years and made a very successful career out of it. Literally, providing images that no one else was able to. People like yourself by the sounds. Heading back to the beach! Maybe you can smell it from there…..
Fun chatting with you as always.