Around here, JD outsells Kubota 2-1 and the trade in resale value is also better I happen to have Kubota's because I like to be different.
Green Vs Orange
- Thread starter dirtydeed
- Start date
Looked at a JD before I bought the BX. Dealer seemed a decent sort and we even kind of agreed on a price. BUT he was a small dealer and in our discussions it became clear JD really didn't support the little guy. He seemed bitter. As it turned out I didn't buy (was still unsure on model and size) and not long afterwards the dealer closed. As fate would have it Kubota opened in his place. But I will never forget how it looked like JD didn't care about their dealer. Made me wonder now they might treat a customer.
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I owned a JD3005 for 4 years. It was a decent little tractor but definitely had it's limitations. Had parts break in the front axle on both sides. Dealer said the 3005 was nice but front end was never built for FEL use particularly not any heavy repeated use.
I went looking. I saw the axles on the L series and really liked the strength. I started dealing with them. I was looking at the 39 hp JD and the L 3901. Both had features I liked. The JD's bucket is closer to the front of the tractor. Nice since lift is in close but not much reach. The Kubota L3901 is what I bought. I've had it two and a half years and am so pleased.
I'll grant one good feature of JD. I sold a 4 1/2 year old 3005 with 450 hrs on it for $1500 less than I paid for it new. That was impressive since it really held it's value.
After all it came down to the dealer. I've had one major problem with my Kubota and the dealer took care of it FAST and put in a new engine. Warranty is great. The JD dealer was mediocre at best. When The front bearings in the final drives failed on both sides I found out my warranty had expired a month earlier. Aargh!
Dealer really is a selling point but not just the sales floor. Parts, service can make or break you when you have to wait two months for a wheel bearing.
Food for thought.
I went looking. I saw the axles on the L series and really liked the strength. I started dealing with them. I was looking at the 39 hp JD and the L 3901. Both had features I liked. The JD's bucket is closer to the front of the tractor. Nice since lift is in close but not much reach. The Kubota L3901 is what I bought. I've had it two and a half years and am so pleased.
I'll grant one good feature of JD. I sold a 4 1/2 year old 3005 with 450 hrs on it for $1500 less than I paid for it new. That was impressive since it really held it's value.
After all it came down to the dealer. I've had one major problem with my Kubota and the dealer took care of it FAST and put in a new engine. Warranty is great. The JD dealer was mediocre at best. When The front bearings in the final drives failed on both sides I found out my warranty had expired a month earlier. Aargh!
Dealer really is a selling point but not just the sales floor. Parts, service can make or break you when you have to wait two months for a wheel bearing.
Food for thought.
In reality I have no issue with JD. In fact I have my eye on a 90 horse FWA cab utility JD right now. Don't need a loader, already have 2 Kubota's with loaders now, just another tractor so I don't have to keep switching hay tools around. One for the round baler, one for the disc mower and one for the rake and/or square baler when I need it, which is rarely anymore.
I should sell it but when I do, I'll need it, usually works that way. It's a low hour NH 575 high capacity with the extra wide pickup and hydraulic continuous bale tension with a bale flipper on the discharge chute. Excellent condition, about 2000 squares run on it.
I should sell it but when I do, I'll need it, usually works that way. It's a low hour NH 575 high capacity with the extra wide pickup and hydraulic continuous bale tension with a bale flipper on the discharge chute. Excellent condition, about 2000 squares run on it.
I've used an old White GT-1855 for most of my life that we got in 1994. I moved away for college in 1999 and in 2012 my parents got a Bad Boy Zero Turn to mow the 3 acres that cut the time in half to about 2 hrs instead of 4. Over those years after I left my brother and his wife and kids used the White and by 2012 it was about shot. I went up and took it and practically rebuilt it and got a parts machine and had to use the rear tires off of it because the ones we had the dealer put calcium in them and ruined the rims and you can't find those anymore.
Anyway, I just traded it in on a JD 1025r here in January 2019 after looking at both the 1025r and BX23S for months. I looked at others as well like New Holland (LS), Massey, etc. But for convenience features, it came down to the BX23S and the 1025r for me. I see Massey has come out with newer model this year, but the seat looks horrible on it.
Even though I seen more issues with the JD in the forums, sitting on them and viewing each one side by side I like the 1025r better. The 1025r has a wider stance and hopefully more stable, more comfortable, easier to get the deck off and on with Autoconnect as I was tired of messing with the PTO from the White, got more for your money to me in the end and JD was cheaper in my area of eastern Ohio and Western PA.
With the JD I have extra lights on the side, loader bucket level indicator, position control and lock for 3 point, lighter quick attach and standard on loader, cutting edge on bucket, 3 point hitch included, no treadle pedal although I would like it better if it was one piece like other Kubota models so you can rest your foot on the whole thing, better break out and lift capacity and was $1000 less in my area.
I like the quick connect for the loader hydraulics on the BX and the new connection options on the backhoe, but the tin handles for the loader and the smallness just turned me off. The specs on the JD are slightly better as well for most of them. I did like the universal quick attach on the loader as well, but now I am thinking the JD is a little better and agree with the link below.
Both are good tractors and not sure why I see more complaints on the JD side. Not sure if it is just so many of them out there and see more issues or they are just problematic or JD users are more open to complaining in forums or what.
Another thing is a dealer! The closest dealer I didn't like his attitude and the next one was just a complete jerk on the Kubota side. They even had an older 1025r to show its weaknesses against he BX23S that I thought were petty. I found one dealer that was both a JD and Kubota dealer and they were ok but 2 hours away along with another one. The 3 JD dealers around me I read bad reviews about them all and the one was over priced while the other two were close in price by a couple of hundred and ended up goin with the closest one that was 30 minutes away. I think I chose wrong.....lol. They delivered the tractor half setup and I wanted the 16" hoe bucket and they said it was ordered and I had to keep pesting to get it. It was on the quote so I was getting it one way or another and finally after a month I got it. So, pay attention to the dealer as well.
Here is somewhat of a good comparison of the latest models of the BX23 and 1025r. I wished he would have had the backhoe's and went over everything more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGXJ7nUIvJM
And a good comparison of the JD vs Universal quick attach:
http://www.tractortimewithtim.com/2019/01/27/skid-steer-quick-attach-vs-jdqa/
New Massey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QrTXON9S7Y
Anyway, I just traded it in on a JD 1025r here in January 2019 after looking at both the 1025r and BX23S for months. I looked at others as well like New Holland (LS), Massey, etc. But for convenience features, it came down to the BX23S and the 1025r for me. I see Massey has come out with newer model this year, but the seat looks horrible on it.
Even though I seen more issues with the JD in the forums, sitting on them and viewing each one side by side I like the 1025r better. The 1025r has a wider stance and hopefully more stable, more comfortable, easier to get the deck off and on with Autoconnect as I was tired of messing with the PTO from the White, got more for your money to me in the end and JD was cheaper in my area of eastern Ohio and Western PA.
With the JD I have extra lights on the side, loader bucket level indicator, position control and lock for 3 point, lighter quick attach and standard on loader, cutting edge on bucket, 3 point hitch included, no treadle pedal although I would like it better if it was one piece like other Kubota models so you can rest your foot on the whole thing, better break out and lift capacity and was $1000 less in my area.
I like the quick connect for the loader hydraulics on the BX and the new connection options on the backhoe, but the tin handles for the loader and the smallness just turned me off. The specs on the JD are slightly better as well for most of them. I did like the universal quick attach on the loader as well, but now I am thinking the JD is a little better and agree with the link below.
Both are good tractors and not sure why I see more complaints on the JD side. Not sure if it is just so many of them out there and see more issues or they are just problematic or JD users are more open to complaining in forums or what.
Another thing is a dealer! The closest dealer I didn't like his attitude and the next one was just a complete jerk on the Kubota side. They even had an older 1025r to show its weaknesses against he BX23S that I thought were petty. I found one dealer that was both a JD and Kubota dealer and they were ok but 2 hours away along with another one. The 3 JD dealers around me I read bad reviews about them all and the one was over priced while the other two were close in price by a couple of hundred and ended up goin with the closest one that was 30 minutes away. I think I chose wrong.....lol. They delivered the tractor half setup and I wanted the 16" hoe bucket and they said it was ordered and I had to keep pesting to get it. It was on the quote so I was getting it one way or another and finally after a month I got it. So, pay attention to the dealer as well.
Here is somewhat of a good comparison of the latest models of the BX23 and 1025r. I wished he would have had the backhoe's and went over everything more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGXJ7nUIvJM
And a good comparison of the JD vs Universal quick attach:
http://www.tractortimewithtim.com/2019/01/27/skid-steer-quick-attach-vs-jdqa/
New Massey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QrTXON9S7Y
Dealers make the difference. I purchased my BX2660 from a salesman I had history with and got grief from the local JD salesman. The Kubota salesman changed jobs and I still see the JD salesman. I have recently taken delivery of a JD 2032R. I have not used the 2032R for any jobs as of yet. The BX2660 is a fine little tractor and has served me well. The first thing I noticed is the difference in hydraulics, they actually work at idle on the Deere. I realize that the comparison is not even close to apples to apples but there is a big difference. My Deere salesman was concerned with what I wanted and flat out said we want you to be happy with what you buy. I need to put this thing to work to see how it really works. Bottom line is that when my butt is on the seat and the tractor does what I want all is well. The BX2660 was just a little small so I bought a larger tractor. I kept the Kubota though, I like good things.
Yea, I have a 2018 1025r and been messing around simply in almost idle and the hydraulics work fine. I noticed that with the BX23S you had to be up in RPMs in order for hydraulics to work. But not a big deal to me. Will most likely have the RPMs up normally anyway so not big deal. To me, something like that is petty.
dirtydeed
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
They are both good machines. Can't really go wrong with either brand. I had my last Kubota for 12 years with very few issues...so, hard to change colors after that.
All interesting. In my case I buy big tractors not little ones and Kubota, New Holland and JD in utility Ag tractors are all comparable feature for feature. One think I like about the NH and JD tractors in FWA are the outboard planetaries. They remove the large inboard housing and provide a better wheel cut than the Kubota has.
My requirements dictate at least 80 pto horsepower. Any less and I'd have an issue with my round baler and I need plenty of loader capacity to move big rounds and load trailers with. Both my M9 and my 105 will handle 2 rounds on the front and a third on the back and the more bales I can handle at one time the faster I can get done.
My requirements dictate at least 80 pto horsepower. Any less and I'd have an issue with my round baler and I need plenty of loader capacity to move big rounds and load trailers with. Both my M9 and my 105 will handle 2 rounds on the front and a third on the back and the more bales I can handle at one time the faster I can get done.
As owner of a new BX23S and having looked at and operated a JD 1025R during the search/compare process, I will give my thoughts.
Also, having spend 20 years designing, building and repairing plastic injection molds and managing those tooling shops for nearly every industry known to man, I have some opinions on the plastic vs. steel issue.
IMHO, JD little tractors are NOT the same build quality as the big Greens. Welds on various parts of the BH and FEL on the JD were rough and did not appear to be of good quality. I noticed this on two different 1025R's; one I got to operate, the other at a dealer on a Sunday walk around. Every Kubota I looked at, looked 'finished'.
Not a fan of the JD 'proprietary' connections. Not a fan of Yanmar engines. Have friends and family that have worked for JD or are current diesel mechanics that do not like them. Kubota on the other hand, has the #1 rated small diesel engine in the world.
Not a fan of JD sourcing parts from numerous vendors for their small tractors.
Did not like the bassackwards BH controls. Made me feel like I needed to cross my arms to run it. Guess I spent enough time on CAT controls as a kid to get it ingrained. Kubota just feels normal.
My experience of walking into JD dealerships, two of them around here, also influenced my decision. One dealership took 15 minutes of me looking, climbing on before someone even approached me, despite several salesmen just standing around. Once I expressed interest in a piddly 1025R, it seemed like I was a nuisance. The other dealer, pretty much the same beginning, but after 10 minutes I asked to speak with someone. "Everyone's busy, we'll get to you shortly." After another 20 minutes I told him that I had been waiting 20 minutes since he initially told me the would "get to me shortly", told him not to bother and I would be buying a Kubota thanks to him.
Plastic vs. steel:
Plastic has its place, granted. However, and this drives my wife nuts, I look at plastic parts all the time for evidence of points of failure. I look for injection points & type, knit lines, flow patterns, flash, parting lines, type of ejection, etc. Plastic tabs/clips fail and break. Extremes in temperature and UV have drastic effects on polymers over time, even with UV inhibitors.
Steel dents, paint chips, dulls, flakes. Yep. And I can pound out a dent, sand it, prime it, paint it.
There are certain places/things that I want to be plastic. Others I want steel.
I bought a Kubota based on my perception of quality of build, adaptability, ease of use and local dealer reputation and my experiences with them.
Also, having spend 20 years designing, building and repairing plastic injection molds and managing those tooling shops for nearly every industry known to man, I have some opinions on the plastic vs. steel issue.
IMHO, JD little tractors are NOT the same build quality as the big Greens. Welds on various parts of the BH and FEL on the JD were rough and did not appear to be of good quality. I noticed this on two different 1025R's; one I got to operate, the other at a dealer on a Sunday walk around. Every Kubota I looked at, looked 'finished'.
Not a fan of the JD 'proprietary' connections. Not a fan of Yanmar engines. Have friends and family that have worked for JD or are current diesel mechanics that do not like them. Kubota on the other hand, has the #1 rated small diesel engine in the world.
Not a fan of JD sourcing parts from numerous vendors for their small tractors.
Did not like the bassackwards BH controls. Made me feel like I needed to cross my arms to run it. Guess I spent enough time on CAT controls as a kid to get it ingrained. Kubota just feels normal.
My experience of walking into JD dealerships, two of them around here, also influenced my decision. One dealership took 15 minutes of me looking, climbing on before someone even approached me, despite several salesmen just standing around. Once I expressed interest in a piddly 1025R, it seemed like I was a nuisance. The other dealer, pretty much the same beginning, but after 10 minutes I asked to speak with someone. "Everyone's busy, we'll get to you shortly." After another 20 minutes I told him that I had been waiting 20 minutes since he initially told me the would "get to me shortly", told him not to bother and I would be buying a Kubota thanks to him.
Plastic vs. steel:
Plastic has its place, granted. However, and this drives my wife nuts, I look at plastic parts all the time for evidence of points of failure. I look for injection points & type, knit lines, flow patterns, flash, parting lines, type of ejection, etc. Plastic tabs/clips fail and break. Extremes in temperature and UV have drastic effects on polymers over time, even with UV inhibitors.
Steel dents, paint chips, dulls, flakes. Yep. And I can pound out a dent, sand it, prime it, paint it.
There are certain places/things that I want to be plastic. Others I want steel.
I bought a Kubota based on my perception of quality of build, adaptability, ease of use and local dealer reputation and my experiences with them.
In reading this thread and following along, I'd say that in small tractors (under 30 horsepower) there are differences, some good, some not so good, across all lines but, once you get into the bigger units, the differences are subtle and they are all about the same except for color. Having said that, if a JD or a Massey or a NH tractor was a 'good deal'. I'd buy one. As it is,. I don't need one.
It does indeed almost boil down to your local dealer (although Kubota seems more energetic in pursuing human-engineering conveniences.) My local JD guy seemed more interested in telling me I needed what he had in-stock, and goofy advice such as that only JD anti-freeze should be used in diesels of all makes.
The Kubota dealer directly across the highway asked numerous questions about what I intended to do with the tractor and he even drove 15 miles out to my place to see the problems I was facing before he made his recommendations. It turned out that I bought a used Kubota (from an individual) based upon his advice...and when I called him for more advice (apologizing for taking his time but buying elsewhere) ...he simply asked about the Kubota I bought, praised the model, and told me I'd made a good deal. He made sure I knew that his dealership supported the product and to call on him anytime he could help. And I have. And they have.
I do feel better about Kubota as being an "integrated" product. By that, I mean that their individual components are designed to work in harmony by Kubota...not pieced together from different mfr's and made to work together almost as an afterthought. I suspect JD has forgotten how they got where they are ,,, and are nowadays relying on their old reputations rather than scrambling to make better products... which seems to describe how Kubota is doing things.
BTW, I was very surprised to find that my 20 year old low-time Kubota held it's near-new value better than the JD's did. I looked at 3 virtually identical Kubotas and they were all priced very nearly as if still new. The JD's, while priced higher than expected, did not command prices so high, nor were all their replacement parts (of the assembled, different suppliers) so readily available. JD told me they'd have to "research" availability on out-of-production FEL parts, while Kubota has their older FEL parts in-stock in Dallas ready-to-ship.
My '96 M4700DT still looks orange and hasn't faded at all. (see my avatar)
The Kubota dealer directly across the highway asked numerous questions about what I intended to do with the tractor and he even drove 15 miles out to my place to see the problems I was facing before he made his recommendations. It turned out that I bought a used Kubota (from an individual) based upon his advice...and when I called him for more advice (apologizing for taking his time but buying elsewhere) ...he simply asked about the Kubota I bought, praised the model, and told me I'd made a good deal. He made sure I knew that his dealership supported the product and to call on him anytime he could help. And I have. And they have.
I do feel better about Kubota as being an "integrated" product. By that, I mean that their individual components are designed to work in harmony by Kubota...not pieced together from different mfr's and made to work together almost as an afterthought. I suspect JD has forgotten how they got where they are ,,, and are nowadays relying on their old reputations rather than scrambling to make better products... which seems to describe how Kubota is doing things.
BTW, I was very surprised to find that my 20 year old low-time Kubota held it's near-new value better than the JD's did. I looked at 3 virtually identical Kubotas and they were all priced very nearly as if still new. The JD's, while priced higher than expected, did not command prices so high, nor were all their replacement parts (of the assembled, different suppliers) so readily available. JD told me they'd have to "research" availability on out-of-production FEL parts, while Kubota has their older FEL parts in-stock in Dallas ready-to-ship.
My '96 M4700DT still looks orange and hasn't faded at all. (see my avatar)
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I’ve heard our local JD dealer is awesome about getting parts. 1-2 day lead time. Our Kubota dealer on the other hand can take 2-3 weeks. It’s much quicker to go online for non stocked items. Prices are about the same minus shipping.
I guess there is always next day air if I used my tractor for a living.
I guess there is always next day air if I used my tractor for a living.
shootem604
Member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L245DT with Kubota (Arps Model 22) FEL and Kubota B/L4520B (Woods 650) BH
My Kubota dealer here is next day for pretty much anything I've thrown at them. And I have a late 70's tractor with a FEL and BH built by two other companies for Kubota, and they still get stuff in next day. The only reason I have not bought from Kubota for some things is because I have been happy to wait two weeks get the parts from somewhere else (ie: Woods) for a substantial savings.