Gravity feed fueling question

[Mudball]

Im wanting to build a platform to set a 15 gal container on. As long as the fuel exit point on the container is at the same level or a few inches higher than the top of the tractor fuel tank then will it drain down through a 8 to 10 foot hose and dispense ?
Thanks

 

[cerlawson]

The gradient slope that controls the flow down hill toward the tractor is the difference in elevation of the top of the tank liquid and the discharge nozzle elevation. So, theoretically the outlet from the tank does not have to be higher than the tractor tank inlet, but then there is an unemptable part of the tank below the level of the nozzle.

 

[85Hokie]

also to add to what cerlawson said -

the full amount of the 15 gal tank will determine the flow rate of the fuel leaving the hose!
Fuel will flow - the longer the hose .....the more friction there will be too. If you are looking to increase the fuel flow over a unit of time.......shorten the hose and raise the storage container if possible. Or you can have a larger diameter of hose too!

 

[Mudball]

Thanks for all the help.
All great points.
Sounds like it will work for my application. Im not wanting to store much diesel for a very long period of time. Seeing how Im fueling on a small scale operation I wanted to keep the fuel rotated or fresh so to speak.

 

[85Hokie]

Thanks for all the help.
All great points.
Sounds like it will work for my application. Im not wanting to store much diesel for a very long period of time. Seeing how Im fueling on a small scale operation I wanted to keep the fuel rotated or fresh so to speak.

The real pain in the butt will be filling the 15 gallons up above!

 

[Mudball]

I hope not 85Hokie.
This is a open lid container that can be sealed with a lid and metal lock ring.
The top of the container shouldnt be but 7 to 8 feet high. There will be a ladder leaning securely against the platform. This installation is all going on inside a shed by the way. I have two regular 5 gal plastic containers (In the past I used for gas) with two handes on them and I will remove the pour spouts for faster and easier pouring and dump (with fuel additive already added prior) into the 15 gal container with the open top and then place the lid back on.
I hope

 

[D2Cat]

Mudball, not to get you going a different direction, but with a hand pump similar to this you can leave your tank on the floor which will make it much easier to fill.

These pumps pump 1 qt each stroke. Forward and back is 1/2 gallon. Doesn't take long to get you tractor tank full. The pickup tube is designed to slide over itself to adapt to the dept of most barrels.

Probably find a copy on Harbor Freight cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TUTHILL-COR...UMP-INDIANA-/191696379934?hash=item2ca1fea01e

 

[Daren Todd]

I'm thinking d2cat was talking about something simylar to this. Couldn't get the link working to the hand pump style.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...gclid=CPSXoq-9k8gCFYVCaQod15YPsw&gclsrc=aw.ds

Check harbor freight like he suggested. I'll suggest changing out the pick up tube, to a hydraulic line on those style pumps, Or the hand crank pumps. The pick up tubes tend to start leaking at the center seam. So once the fluid drops below the seam, they start sacking air.

 

[Diydave]

Here is the easy way: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/ghp-30-...7BsLtcN_TBUkYZ2r6lOM98xDxEswsy51MbxoCAsbw_wcB

I picked one up at an auction, for $140, coupla years ago. Every once in a while, they appear on Craig's list from $50-250...

 

[Mudball]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Either Im missing something here, and that wouldnt surprise me, or on these manual pumps it requires that a person pump with one hand while watching the tractor tank fueling with the nozzle in the other hand. Every pump like this that Ive used in the past requires this unless the new ones build pressure or something that Im not aware of. I cant physically operate a hand pump and accurately fuel my tractor and without making quite a mess at times as well but thats probably because Im not doing it right.
Here is what Im currently using and works ok http://www.target.com/p/kerosene-pu...pid=17410306&gclid=CLzv2JLalMgCFQQDaQodClkHCg It fits just inside the fuel can opening but can be pretty messy if you dont take the time to let both ends of it fully drain before removing. I have some petroleum absorbent towels that help with this matter but still wanted to mention it to others. Lowes sells them seasonally so if they dont have them now then they will soon.
There is also no electricity at the shed where I store the tractor and this is the same place I want to store my fuel (cool and fairly dark). So I cant have an AC fuel pump and I dont want to store a battery in the shed or start up and use my truck battery to operate a DC pump.
Ive considered buying two (5 gal) of those No Spill containers but if I have to get a step stool to get up and lift the container on the tractor to fuel then I might as well take a few more steps up higher and dump two 5 gal jugs into my 15 gal container, much faster I hope. Not to mention that considering the price of the two No Spill containers then thats about half or a little more of what I would have invested in the whole gravity system Im trying to make.
Im not sure if this will work but Im also going to try and have a filter in line. Possibly a water alert filter but I think they have a much higher micron and might cause too much resistance. Either way it would be nice to have the fuel filtered prior to the tractor.
I guess the filter assy could be installed on a hand pump unit as well...hummm. Maybe I will give the hand pump application some more thought. I just need to be more careful about not overfilling when trying to top off the tank with a hand pump unit. I dont like the back and forth while trying to top off the tank but I guess I just need to stop trying to top the tank off so high anyway.
Thanks again.

 

[Daren Todd]

They make the ac pump in 12 volt as well. You can hook a couple of alligator clips to the wires and run it off your tractor battery

 

[skeets]

So am I missing something here? Your worried about spilling some fuel on your tractor or the floor or something like that? A prudent man would pump look, pump, look, and after about 3 or 4 times you have a really good idea of what you need, and really how hard is it to look at the fuel gauge once in a while? OK Im gona have my coffee

 

[Mudball]

Thanks for the help.
Ive considered the battery operated units but dont really want to go that route for several reasons. Wow I never thought I would get this far from my original question.
Skeets a prudent man would thoroughly read all the posts made in this thread including my original question and quickly determine that spilling fuel is not the only thing that is the issue hear.
Sorry I dont have a fuel gauge either.
Enjoy your coffee.

 

[85Hokie]

Thanks for the help.
Ive considered the battery operated units but dont really want to go that route for several reasons. Wow I never thought I would get this far from my original question.
Skeets a prudent man would thoroughly read all the posts made in this thread including my original question and quickly determine that spilling fuel is not the only thing that is the issue hear.
Sorry I dont have a fuel gauge either.
Enjoy your coffee.

Mudball,

I understand what you are doing and I like the idea!!!
I would have my hose coming from the main tank - with an inline filter just for S & G's, and then a simple ball valve on the end of the hose.
Pop the tank cap and simply watch it fill - close the ball valve and hang it back on the wall - gravity does the work, you know based on how many times you have filled up how much fuel you have left in the main tank.

Describe the holding tank ? Metal - plastic ? clear?

 

[ShaunBlake]

Mudball, I've wanted to do the same thing. I don't use enough fuel to warrant it, but arthritis and sciatica make fueling my little B6100 a pain. My problem is lifting the fuel up to the tank.

I gather you plan to lift it up a ladder, 5-gallons at a time. I'd say that perching on the ladder and tipping the can into the bin will be the part of your design that over time will be the worst part. If you can be okay with that, then you've got a winner!

If your lid has some kind of membrane that forms an air-tight seal and you're counting on that to eliminate fire hazard, then my next comments will no be appropriate.

You don't need to put a hole in the side (or bottom) of the bin: you can siphon the fuel out just as well. Just locate the bin as high as or higher than the top of your highest fuel tank. Since you have the ability to put a hole in your bin, consider making a slot at the top edge of the bin -- make it deep enough to drop your hose into and clamp the lid on. Unless you run the bin dry, you'd never have to prime the hose again; just refill the bin before it's completely empty.

It would be great to see pics of your plan. Please keep us posted on your progress!

 

[Mudball]

Thanks 85Hokie.
I know what I want. Im just not sure how to accomplish it.
I have a blue 15 gal plastic container. I actually bought 4 of them for 5 dollars each. I would like to have white/clear but couldnt find any like that. It will be easy however to pop the snap lid off to check the level periodically and then add my two 5 gal (or just one as needed) cans to the 15 gal container. I will top off the fuel tank every time I return it to the shed because of less chance of condensation that way. So evry time I fuel I will be adding around 1 to 2 gals roughly.
My original plan exiting the container is to install a bulkhead adapter, nipple, ball valve, another nipple unless they have ball valves with male fittings on both ends, then filter housing assy (supported on nearby 4x4 board), 45 degree bell fitting ?, short 5 to 6 foot hose, hose swivel, and manual shut off nozzle or another ball valve as you mentioned.
If I go this route then I will be sure to take pictures...if it works lol.

 

[Mudball]

Thanks ShaunBlake.
Yes you are correct about the lifting of the fuel cans to empty them is going to be the biggest pain of all. Im may have a decent idea for that as well but will need more time.
Yes the container has a seal on it. It also has some sort of what appears to be a pressure equalizer on it. I guess for large amounts of expansion and/or contraction ?? Not sure.
I will definitely keep the siphon set up in mind.
Thanks

 

[Mudball]

These containers are somewhere around 15 to 18 gals I believe. They are 12" across the base and 24" high. They are very thick on the sidewalls. They hardly give at all when you push on them. Very stout, but Im sure that I would still need to support the filter assy because in time it would bend or warp the side at the point of entry/exit.

 

[Humblebub]

Not being in the bloom of youth and having same issues as Shaunblake I am watching this closely. My solution so far has been to haul fuel in 2 gal containers instead of 5. I am just a residential user but use enough fuel to make it inconvenient.

 

[Mudball]

I am just a residential user but use enough fuel to make it inconvenient.

Well said.
Same here. Im not high volume either. I like the smaller can idea as well.
Its hard to find that happy medium without breaking the bank.