What would be some advantages/disadvantages of these two transmissions? Are there any pulling differences? Seems to me that the gear drive would give a more steady pull vs trying to maintain a steady throttle with your foot on the HST.
Gear Drive Transmission VS HST
- Thread starter Boria
- Start date
Gear will put more power to the ground. HST will be easier to use and is more like an automatic trans.
I like gear better, but as you will soon see, most like HST better.
I like gear better, but as you will soon see, most like HST better.
I just did some logging , moving the logs and stacking them. Back and forth...back and forth...I have the HST....it's quick and fast and very easy...I haven't owned a car or truck since '94 that had a standard shift. At 50 yrs old...I'm not ready to go back to a stick shift.....
A lot of people don't know how to use a clutch.
If you do tasks that require a lot of back and forth movement, HST is just plain easier.
If you work on hills, HST is usually safer for most people.
If you are farming out in the fields, it is normally thought that you are better off with a gear transmission. In other words a lot of straight continuous use.
Good luck with your decision.
If you do tasks that require a lot of back and forth movement, HST is just plain easier.
If you work on hills, HST is usually safer for most people.
If you are farming out in the fields, it is normally thought that you are better off with a gear transmission. In other words a lot of straight continuous use.
Good luck with your decision.
Is an HST just as durable?
I am not an expert but have driven a few tractors over the years and they all had gears. All my vehicles have automatic transmissions nowadays also but I grew up on a manual transmission so I can use a clutch no problem.
I am not an expert but have driven a few tractors over the years and they all had gears. All my vehicles have automatic transmissions nowadays also but I grew up on a manual transmission so I can use a clutch no problem.
TripleR
Active member
Equipment
BX2200, BX2660, L5740 HSTC, M8540HDC and some other tractors and equipment
Pretty much what MtnViewRanch said, we use both HST and gear and they work well for how we use them.
While driving a standard shift truck or car may seem to prepare you for a geared tractor, there is in my opinion quite a bit of difference and preference in one does not always or even most of the time lead to preference in the other.
While driving a standard shift truck or car may seem to prepare you for a geared tractor, there is in my opinion quite a bit of difference and preference in one does not always or even most of the time lead to preference in the other.
If you do a search on here, you will find numerous posts about gear vs. HST. There are lots of opinions, and I firmly believe that both are good, and that both serve a purpose. I love my HST, but when I bought it, I felt that I would have to suffer through it, since all I had ever used were gear tractors. Not anymore. Would I turn down a gear tractor? Yes, for what I use my B7100 for. No, if I were looking at a bigger tractor, for different purposes.
That being said, there are some models that aren't offered with gear drive. So, you may need to quantify what you want, because you may wind up not having a choice. Either way, you ought to at least try an HST, since you already have experience on gear drive tractors. It's worth a fair shake.
That being said, there are some models that aren't offered with gear drive. So, you may need to quantify what you want, because you may wind up not having a choice. Either way, you ought to at least try an HST, since you already have experience on gear drive tractors. It's worth a fair shake.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10272
Take a look at this recent thread. I was firmly convinced I wanted a geared tractor.....until I test drove an HST. I have no doubt that a geared tractor has it's place but for the reasons stated above by MtViewRanch I now believe that an HST tractor is probably best for most of us. Even though I consider myself pretty capable when it comes to operating moving machinery (airplanes, dirt bikes, road bikes, etc) I know I'm safer and better able to get the most out of my new tractor because it is HST. Could I have figured out and become safe/competent on a geared tractor? Sure, but because I don't operate a tractor for a living I believe I'm way ahead of the game on an HST. YMMV.
Take a look at this recent thread. I was firmly convinced I wanted a geared tractor.....until I test drove an HST. I have no doubt that a geared tractor has it's place but for the reasons stated above by MtViewRanch I now believe that an HST tractor is probably best for most of us. Even though I consider myself pretty capable when it comes to operating moving machinery (airplanes, dirt bikes, road bikes, etc) I know I'm safer and better able to get the most out of my new tractor because it is HST. Could I have figured out and become safe/competent on a geared tractor? Sure, but because I don't operate a tractor for a living I believe I'm way ahead of the game on an HST. YMMV.
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Absolutely agree. Just because one or the other works for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you.
I'm my opinion and what works best for me is gear. I've operated a ton of equipment over the years that's HST and I don't like it. Case in point for me when I was truck driving for a living I've used truck mounted forklifts, Piggybacks or Moffits. Both brands are HST drive and when that are racked up with ours are too wobbly for my liking and when you let off the pedal it would creep and bump into the side of the truck, causing me to rip off steps and such.
Using a friends John Deere skid steer helping him out with his tree business his skid steer would creep forward unless you set the parking break. For me using a tractor in a landscape business I can't take a "chance" of an HST creeping when I don't want it too if I'm fine grading up close to a house or a structure and I hit something I can't afford to replace.
So for me I despise HST simply for the fact that everything I've ever operated that had an HST transmission was just to wobbly and would not sit still. Yeah I'm gear tranny all the way.
Clutches are bound to be a helluva lot cheaper to replace then a hydraulic pump for a transmission. And with the purchase of a new tractor you get a gear for a few thousand less then a HST.
Using a friends John Deere skid steer helping him out with his tree business his skid steer would creep forward unless you set the parking break. For me using a tractor in a landscape business I can't take a "chance" of an HST creeping when I don't want it too if I'm fine grading up close to a house or a structure and I hit something I can't afford to replace.
So for me I despise HST simply for the fact that everything I've ever operated that had an HST transmission was just to wobbly and would not sit still. Yeah I'm gear tranny all the way.
Clutches are bound to be a helluva lot cheaper to replace then a hydraulic pump for a transmission. And with the purchase of a new tractor you get a gear for a few thousand less then a HST.
I know what you're saying, and also realize you said it was only your experience. However, I think it's misleading to compare a machine that is out of acceptable specifications up as an example of why not to buy a particular type of transmission. I'm confident that no manufacturer's service manual allows for the tractor to drive forward when everything is at rest.
That doesn't mean the fine-tuning maintenance issues aren't an issue, but I think that should be the focus, not that an HST will drive around on its own and be hazardous. I've had two of my straight gear tractors get the clutch plates bound together after sitting for awhile, and it is startling and dangerous to have the clutch depressed with the tractor still backing up toward something valuable, and the clutch pedal have no effect.
The additional importance of properly adjusting the HST pedal and valve is, in my view, a valid and important maintenance concern, but adjusting the slack in the clutch pedal and ensuring the tractor is in neutral when starting are crucially important, too.
I'm not trying to cause an argument, and I generally like gear drive machines more (I don't even own an HST compact tractor out of my dozen or so machines), I just don't think that experiences with worn-out and/or improperly maintained equipment by themselves are convincing arguments against selecting an HST over a gear machine. We would complain in a similar fashion if someone said "A gear tractor has a clutch, and if you try to use the clutch to control your speed too much, it will wear out, and then your tractor won't move at all." While true, it's not really applicable when the equipment is properly used and maintained.
Otherwise, I agree with MtnViewRanch. For doing mowing work, loader work, moving trailers, or other things where the common sequence of events is optimized by the ability to quickly change direction or speed, I think an HST is undoubtedly superior to a gear drive machine.
Mowing is really a LOT easier when one can increase speed through light sections, or straightaways, and then instantly slow to inching speed, for tighter areas or thick, hard cutting, all while maintaining PTO RPM and power. A gear tractor is obnoxious in comparison, either requiring constant stop and start shifting, or running at sub-optimal PTO RPM.
I have used HST machines, and have actually gone back to using all gear tractors, but for some applications, HST's advantages outweigh gear tractor's strengths. In some cases the opposite is true as well, and then there can be ergonomic issues: I get soreness in my ankle and lower leg from the constant feathering of an HST; this may be the particular machines I have used in combination with my own physical quirks, but my gear tractor's clutch pedals never give me issues. I've also not heard many people complaining about pain from the HST pedals. I don't know. The cruise control featured on newer machines may alleviate many of those particular gripes I have.
Whatever you choose, share pictures with us, and let us know how it works for you!
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TripleR
Active member
Equipment
BX2200, BX2660, L5740 HSTC, M8540HDC and some other tractors and equipment
Very good points and pretty much what I would say only maybe not so well. If I judged gear tractors by some of the junk with which I had to farm with I wouldn't go near one sae with some old worn out HST models.
My HST and gear models both work as they should so I like both, just for different things.
I'm not sure if I've said this in any of these debates. I don't feel there is anything wrong with HST trans, it's just that I Don't like them and I do not want one.
On a side note. My mom hurt her back using a small Massey Ferguson with HST. The constant strain of pushing the peddle down really messed up her lower back. She is no longer allowed on a tractor. I will say the HST peddle on this Massey is hard to press and puts the right leg/hip/lower back in a very uncomfortable position. Cruse control never worked well either and she didn't like using it.
Maybe if she had of bought a Kubota instead all would be good?
On a side note. My mom hurt her back using a small Massey Ferguson with HST. The constant strain of pushing the peddle down really messed up her lower back. She is no longer allowed on a tractor. I will say the HST peddle on this Massey is hard to press and puts the right leg/hip/lower back in a very uncomfortable position. Cruse control never worked well either and she didn't like using it.
Maybe if she had of bought a Kubota instead all would be good?
TripleR
Active member
Equipment
BX2200, BX2660, L5740 HSTC, M8540HDC and some other tractors and equipment
Lots of variations, so you have to get the one that works for you, kind of like the old joke, Patient, "Doc it hurts when I do this." Doc, "Don't do that."I'm not sure if I've said this in any of these debates. I don't feel there is anything wrong with HST trans, it's just that I Don't like them and I do not want one.
On a side note. My mom hurt her back using a small Massey Ferguson with HST. The constant strain of pushing the peddle down really messed up her lower back. She is no longer allowed on a tractor. I will say the HST peddle on this Massey is hard to press and puts the right leg/hip/lower back in a very uncomfortable position. Cruse control never worked well either and she didn't like using it.
Maybe if she had of bought a Kubota instead all would be good?
My mother in law used HST until she died at 80, my wife has a bad back and uses a John Deere and Kubotas without problems, but pushing clutches aggravate the heck out of her back.
My brother is in his 60's and just bought a new geared tractor; different strokes and everyone is happy.
As mentioned, I drive both kinds.
For the OP, it would be nice to hear from some of the techs as to frequency of failures. In other words, what are the dealerships seeing? Part of the original question deals with durability- are HST transmissions more prone to wear and damage than gear transmissions, or is it usually operator error that causes the problem?
From my experience, I know that gear tranmissions are long living, as long as the operator knows how to use a clutch properly and how to properly shift. I also have experience with HST's (and other hydro systems, like skidsteer and forklift), with no issue whatsoever. In fact, it has exceeded my expectations. So, personally, I have confidence in them. Again, some feedback from dealerships as to frequency of problems and maybe even a cost comparison would help the OP to decide what he wants.
From my experience, I know that gear tranmissions are long living, as long as the operator knows how to use a clutch properly and how to properly shift. I also have experience with HST's (and other hydro systems, like skidsteer and forklift), with no issue whatsoever. In fact, it has exceeded my expectations. So, personally, I have confidence in them. Again, some feedback from dealerships as to frequency of problems and maybe even a cost comparison would help the OP to decide what he wants.
Another key point for me, like I was describing to a new member the other day who was saying their back was killing them from twisting in the seat to look at the grading box behind them. I've learend to sit cock-eyed in the seat with my butt cheeks twisted at the bottom so it put less stain on my back when looking behind me. In doing so when I'm involved with a lot of grading and backflling my legs don't end up in a normal position and I doubt I could work the HST pedal being seated that way.
If you run a front end loader (really use it) then HST's are very nice so you can scoop/dump/repeat. If you don't, then gears are just as good and often easier on your foot.
Basically, do you need to change direction often....loaders, lawn mowers, maybe tilling smaller plots, ....
Basically, do you need to change direction often....loaders, lawn mowers, maybe tilling smaller plots, ....
See, it works for me. I'm not discounting what you are saying- not everybody likes the same thing. But, I use a finish mower behind my 7100, and half of my mowing is done backing up- I back up, turned to the side, watching the mower, very often (mountain land, not many long runs). I don't have any issue operating the HST pedal. I pushed a lot of snow this past winter, with the backblade turned backwards- it moved snow better that way. I cleared half or more of our church parking lot turned sideways, and it wasn't a problem. So, for me, it's a none issue. Now, if I had to be turned sideways and be hitting the brake while throwing in the clutch, that would have been more fatiquing. Not difficult or impossible, but fatiguing.
Plus, I could cycle backward and forward much faster than the NH/gear drive that was being used by the other fellow. He knows what he is doing and is proficient, but simply put, he couldn't hit the brake, come to a stop, shift into reverse or forward, and let out the clutch as fast as I could let off the pedal and push it in the other direction. He worked his clutch that day, I didn't touch mine; he used his brakes a lot, I didn't touch mine. I could slow down when needed, or immediatly speed up when needed; he would have to change gears to do that, and he couldn't change his speed in reverse. In that instance, HST was clearly more efficient.