Gaining oil

[Quagmire33]

I know this has been covered in the past. I have a b6200 and I seem to be gaining engine oil. I assume that it's the hydraulic pump seal. Question #1, where can I get that seal, can I get it from the dealer? I inquired once about a pump rebuild kit and they don't offer one, just a new pump for nearly $500. And question #2, does anyone have a picture of where the pump is and what it takes to get it off to replace the seal? I'm inside now and work an 18 hour day tomorrow so probably won't have time to look at it until late Thursday night or Friday. I looked on kubotabooks.com and see the seal I need in an exploded view but haven't seen how it's attached. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Billdog350]

I've helped out a few customers with older B tractors and it was their hydraulic pump failing. Replacing the seal does not fix the issue, the whole pump needs replacing. There is a chance you can tear down the pump and replace all of the internal seals and gaskets, but honestly once something is 30+ yrs old and has XXX hours of wear, you're better off starting new. Sorry you need to plunk down the $, shop around online through Messicks and the other vendors to get the best price, you can sometimes save over $100 on something that pricy....

 

[Quagmire33]

Thank you very much for the info. Not exactly the answer I wanted to hear, but sometimes the truth hurts. I'll start hunting around and saving my pennies. At least with a new pump I'll know that it's fixed and not be constantly worrying about the seals leaking. Thanks again.

 

[ShaunRH]

Check to see if it smells like diesel. That will thin and ruin the engine oil as well.

Don't replace a pump unless you're certain it's the right one!

 

[Quagmire33]

I hope to drain the oil Saturday. I would assume that if its fuel I would be able to smell diesel ( am I correct on that ? ) and if it is coolant I would see it seperate. I also assume that if it hydraulic fluid I might not be able to detect it since its pretty similar to the engine oil. Would I be correct on my assumptions ?

What do you mean by make sure it's the right one ?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I will second the check:
Did the oil in the motor rise the same as the loss in the hydraulic fluid?
Normally when the seal goes, it goes, that's to say that it will normally just flood the motor in a short amount of time and not just trickle in. I've heard many a story that the motor was running fine and it started pumping oil out the breather on the valve cover.
If you have no loss or weakness of the hydraulic system or loss of hydraulic fluid then your probably looking at a leaking lift pump(not very likely) or a leaking injector pump (much more likely) both can just pump diesel right in with the oil.
Is the radiator full? That will tell you if it's water/antifreeze.

Yes drain the oil and check it thoroughly.

 

[Quagmire33]

Its tough to say if the hydro fluid went down the same ammount as the oil went up. Engine holds like 3.5 qts and trans holds like 3.5 gal. So a half a quart added to the engine is a lot but not really a noticeable loss in the trans. It also seems to just be creeping up, not dumping in like you mentioned. Maybe I check it so often I don't give it time to get too high? I only run the tractor for a couple hours at a time after work and before bed. It really sounds like my next step (whenever I finally get time) will be to drain the engine and see what the oil smells/looks like.

 

[Quagmire33]

O yeah, my hydros are weak. Pretty much unresponsive with rpms below 2000-2200. They seem to get weaker the hotter the fluid gets too. I've already changed all the hydro fluid and filters and washed out the screens (which weren't bad at all). It was only from reading this fourm that something clicked in my head and said, has the oil always Been this full. And the more I checked it the more it seemed to creep up. But I haven't noticed it smelling of fuel when I check the dipstick.

 

[Billdog350]

Hydraulic oil (UDT) has a bit of a smell to it and when you put it on a napkin or paper towel will show up differently than diesel. Diesel smells different than UDT or oil and you should notice that the oil is thinner than expected. Again pull the dipstick and put a drop on a paper towel. If the drop absorbs and spreads significantly, then its likely you have diesel in it. If it stays on top of the towel or makes a quarter sized circle at most, you're likely ok.

Like Wolfman said, its common for the seal to go and pump oil out of your valve cover (when the UDT overfills your motor).

As far as where the pump is, if its like the B6100 and B7100's I have worked on, its on the right side of the motor, bolted to the block. Only a few bolts and the inlet and outlet pipe to remove. Including removing your panels and such it shouldn't be more than an hour job to tear it down and remove.

 

[Quagmire33]

I ordered seals on Saturday, they should in on Wednesday. Lucky for me I have Thursday off, so I know what I'll be working on. I figure its worth a try for $8 vs. the $500 pump. At the very least I'll gain the experience of taking the pump off. Wish me luck.

 

[Billdog350]

Good luck and keep us posted! My experience in replacing the seal is that the outer wiper seal can be replaced with a little effort, but the problem is internally the high pressure seals were gone and would force oil out the external seal. Maybe you'll have better luck!

 

[Quagmire33]

Thanks, I'll keep ya'll posted. I know even if it does work, it'll be for a limited time. But I'm in a tight $$$ spot right now. So it's either try the seals or wait a few months until I can afford a new pump. And believe me, the new pump fund has been started but Itll be a while before it gets to "new pump" level.

 

[Quagmire33]

Well, so far so good. Put the new seals in and have run the tractor for about 4 hours. Oil level still looks good. Hopefully the new seals will hold out until I can afford a new pump.

 

[Billdog350]

Great to hear, keep us posted! Which seals did you replace? The one around the pump shaft where it bolts to the block right? Which other ones?

 

[Donystoy]

I just went through this exact problem last week. Thankfully I always check the engine oil level every time I go to use the tractor. The first time I noticed it I just took out some of the oil as I had just recently changed the oil and filter and thought that I might have just over filled it. When I noticed the level significantly higher again the next time I used the tractor I checked the hydro oil. It was down. I knew that the hydro oil had been up as I had just re-welded an FEL cylinder that had cracked a weld. I replaced the hydro pump and all is good now. The mating key on the end of the old pump was significantly worn also making it necessary to replace. The female end on the back of the injector assembly is also worn but it will have to wait as I needed the tractor up and running asap as I was digging for a building foundation.
All this reminded me of my neighbors boy who snapped a connecting rod on a snow blower after he over-filled it with oil.

 

[Quagmire33]

Yes, the seal at the base of the pump and the big oring on the cover of the pump. The dealer said there was no need to change the other smaller orings. Not sure why but it didn't matter much anyways, I only had $10 on me and the two others cost $8.36.