Furnace took a dump...

[SidecarFlip]

It's only 23 years old. Never had an issue with it, always change the filters and keep the burners clean. It's a Bryant Plus 90 condensing furnace.

Blower decided to pack in in this morning and it's cold here, like 28. Looks like the start capacitor gave up the ghost, the blower won't start unless I help it out. Oh well, time to get a capacitor tomorrow and I'll pull the blower out and take the motor apart and lube the bearings and clean the blower wheel too.

Wife said, maybe we need to buy a new one (paid $2300 installed 23 years ago), I bet it's 10K today.

I forgot we have a backup plan. We have a pellet stove in the greatroom but propane is so cheap I ran propane this year (last year too). I fired up the pellet stove and all is well, up to 70 in here. Amy is happy, cats are happy (all parked around the stove, dog is happy and I'm happy).

Amy went to TSC and bought 10 bags just in case. $4.50 a bag. way more than propane at $1.40 a gallon.

All's well that ends well. Warm is good. Supposed to drop to 20 here tonight... Think spring.

 

[Talenel]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Eh furnaces have gotten cheaper for the most part. I think my Dad paid $550 for the furnace I helped him put in shipped to his door.

 

[Tughill Tom]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

That furnace doesn't owe you a thing, most life time for a furnace is 15 to 20 years. Heat exchangers crack and or rot out.

You can up grade to a Hi-eff for under a grand, I just installed a 92% Eff in a house I'm renovating for under that. As an OLD HVAC guy it was a no brainer.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

That furnace doesn't owe you a thing, most life time for a furnace is 15 to 20 years. Heat exchangers crack and or rot out.

You can up grade to a Hi-eff for under a grand, I just installed a 92% Eff in a house I'm renovating for under that. As an OLD HVAC guy it was a no brainer.

I'm no HVAC person but I am handy with stuff. I guess I'll have to check out one. Cannot be that difficult to install and I don't really need a condensing furnace anyway.

All I know is it's 70 in here now and the wife is happy. Happy wife good life.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Sorry for introducing thread creep, but does anyone have any thoughts about minisplit type heat pumps? I have circulating hot water, propane fired boiler and my propane bill last month was $700. No AC. Most of the time I only ever wish I had AC is about 8 days a year, not worth the money. But a guy at a home show said there were these AC units that when run in reverse put out heat. Now heat I have need of for 6 months. Do they work like Peltier cells? Pull a lot of current? Noisy?

 

[D2Cat]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Sheepfarmer, I'm curious, was the $700 bill for a 30 day period or was that a tank fill up that lasted much longer than a month?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

They are topping off the two linked tanks about once a month, so close to 30 days.

 

[D2Cat]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

We have a 1350 sq. ft. house as a rental that has a propane contract. Last Summer/Fall the contract price was #1.45 and we contracted for 850 gal. and they still have have 206 gallons left on that contract.

Guess that's the difference in the weather. We get nothing like what you get, and when it does get cold it doesn't stay for long.


To stay on topic, I thought Flip was inquiring where to haul his no good furnace to, based on this thread topic!

 

[Russell King]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

The split systems are also called ductless systems since they are usually installed with an interior unit in each room. They can also have ducts from the interior unit. They are very high efficiency and are the same as a heat pump but with the use of new refrigerants and variable speed motors and compressors they can move heat from outside to inside even when very cold outside.

They can be set up in zones and to transfer the heat into water so can replace water heaters.

In the summer for your few days needed then it can reverse into a air conditioner.

One thing I would warn you about is that the air out of the vents will not be as warm as you get with gas heat so sometimes it will feel cold across your skin.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

They are topping off the two linked tanks about once a month, so close to 30 days.

You must have a large abode. I have twin 500 gallon tanks and I use maybe 3 tanks a year and that is heating the shop as well. Shop has PEX in floor heat. I'm at $1.45 a gallon, spot by and the price just dropped to $1.40.

We keep the heat at 68 during the day and set back to 55 at might. T'stat sets back at 11pm and comes back up at 7am. Shop heat is constant 70 degrees slab temperature. Shop is 20 x 80, insulated.

18 here this AM, real spring like...lol

 

[Donystoy]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

It's only 23 years old. Never had an issue with it, always change the filters and keep the burners clean. It's a Bryant Plus 90 condensing furnace.

Blower decided to pack in in this morning and it's cold here, like 28. Looks like the start capacitor gave up the ghost, the blower won't start unless I help it out. Oh well, time to get a capacitor tomorrow and I'll pull the blower out and take the motor apart and lube the bearings and clean the blower wheel too.

I would certainly for now just replace the capacitor to get it going.
Your furnace must be a multi-speed motor and probably has permanently lubricated bearings that might be difficult to add oil to.

Early Bryant (Carrier) condensing furnaces had heat exchanger issues that usually showed up well under the age of yours. I was able to get 25 years out of mine but recently had to replace it due to the heat exchanger getting plugged and causing intermittent failure. My furnace was a two stage with an ECM fan motor.

I replaced mine with a Coleman (York) of the same type and efficiency. I certainly recommend the ECM motors which are variable speed and use considerably less power than a multi- speed. My new furnace cost me 2/3 of what my Bryant cost me 25 years ago. I am only talking about the actual price of the furnace as I retired from the trade.

 

[dirtydeed]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Sorry for introducing thread creep, but does anyone have any thoughts about minisplit type heat pumps? I have circulating hot water, propane fired boiler and my propane bill last month was $700. No AC. Most of the time I only ever wish I had AC is about 8 days a year, not worth the money. But a guy at a home show said there were these AC units that when run in reverse put out heat. Now heat I have need of for 6 months. Do they work like Peltier cells? Pull a lot of current? Noisy?

Hi Sheep.

I've had minisplit systems in my last two houses. I had two systems installed here with 3 head units tied to each outdoor unit. Our log home didn't really have a great heating system (in-floor radiant that wasn't installed properly) and only window AC units. So, I now have two Daikin outdoor units each connected to 3 minisplit heads (wall and ceiling cassette types). These units work well during moderate temps and the AC works great). They don't have any back up coils for heat because of the compressor type/efficiency. They make heat down to -10 degrees. However, they really don't make much heat when you really need it. As someone else mentioned, heat from these systems never really feels that warm, but these units are supposed to blow air approx 15 - 20 degrees above the set temp.

I would caution you in this type of system for your cold climate. If you were only trying to make a single room more comfy maybe, but to rely on them as sole heating source (in northern climate), I wouldn't suggest them. I paid approx 17K for my system(s) here. Our log home is approx 3,100 sq feet and we like it on the "warm side" in winter. Consequently, most of our heating is done with a large pellet stove. Logs just aren't a very good insulator.

If you need further clarification, let me know.

 

[Stmar]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

A few years ago I posted my trials and tribulations with my propane furnace. The tech that finally solved my problem said he had an older furnace that he was going to keep for as long as he could maintain it because the new ones had so much technology in them that if they were not in a certain environment they were finicky. For instance mine is in the attic so it gets very cold and very hot throughout the year. My system is 20 years old but it is not used that much because we have a pellet stove that keeps things just right. My part time neighbors have a state of the art system, propane and electric heat pump combo. They called me from their winter home and said a tech was coming out because their electric bill had spiked. We had a power outage and their system reset to factory default and was trying to keep the house 72 in sub zero temps. Used all their propane and heat pump was running all the time. If I ever have to get a "new" system I might try to relocate the main components in a more environmentally friendly space.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

You must have a large abode. I have twin 500 gallon tanks and I use maybe 3 tanks a year and that is heating the shop as well. Shop has PEX in floor heat. I'm at $1.45 a gallon, spot by and the price just dropped to $1.40.

We keep the heat at 68 during the day and set back to 55 at might. T'stat sets back at 11pm and comes back up at 7am. Shop heat is constant 70 degrees slab temperature. Shop is 20 x 80, insulated.

18 here this AM, real spring like...lol

It's not so large, but old, was a granary, then the hired man's house, and then about 50 years ago remodeled into its present shape with some bits added on. Insulation not the best, I've done what I could to the accessible parts. And even with long johns on I get cold, so my thermostat where on the wall is 73 gives me about 68 where I sit. Ceiling fan helps. The $700 was unusual.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Hi Sheep.

I've had minisplit systems in my last two houses. I had two systems installed here with 3 head units tied to each outdoor unit. Our log home didn't really have a great heating system (in-floor radiant that wasn't installed properly) and only window AC units. So, I now have two Daikin outdoor units each connected to 3 minisplit heads (wall and ceiling cassette types). These units work well during moderate temps and the AC works great). They don't have any back up coils for heat because of the compressor type/efficiency. They make heat down to -10 degrees. However, they really don't make much heat when you really need it. As someone else mentioned, heat from these systems never really feels that warm, but these units are supposed to blow air approx 15 - 20 degrees above the set temp.

I would caution you in this type of system for your cold climate. If you were only trying to make a single room more comfy maybe, but to rely on them as sole heating source (in northern climate), I wouldn't suggest them. I paid approx 17K for my system(s) here. Our log home is approx 3,100 sq feet and we like it on the "warm side" in winter. Consequently, most of our heating is done with a large pellet stove. Logs just aren't a very good insulator.

If you need further clarification, let me know.

I am thinking of the single room more comfy scenario, the boiler runs 4 zones, but the layout of the pipes is not optimal. Eg the bedrooms are on one zone, good idea, but the hotwater goes upstairs first and then down to the mainfloor bedroom where the thermostat for that zone is located. Consequently upstairs bedrooms are roasting while lower is ok. The zone for mainfloor is really large and is often cold. Bitter weather furnace can't keep up
And it runs all the time. I was wishing for solar power and more heat derived electrically...may take a lottery win, although Michigan at the moment has a good finance plan for energy saving remodels.

 

[dirtydeed]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

I am thinking of the single room more comfy scenario, the boiler runs 4 zones, but the layout of the pipes is not optimal. Eg the bedrooms are on one zone, good idea, but the hotwater goes upstairs first and then down to the mainfloor bedroom where the thermostat for that zone is located. Consequently upstairs bedrooms are roasting while lower is ok. The zone for mainfloor is really large and is often cold. Bitter weather furnace can't keep up
And it runs all the time. I was wishing for solar power and more heat derived electrically...may take a lottery win, although Michigan at the moment has a good finance plan for energy saving remodels.

If it's just heat that's needed in a large open area, sounds like a pellet stove would do you nicely. My pellet stove heats most of my house burning 4 ton/year. Warm, toasty radiant heat with no cutting, splitting or stacking. hooked to the generator I still have heat when the power is out. You can get stoves that vent through the wall.

Anyway, best of luck.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

It's not so large, but old, was a granary, then the hired man's house, and then about 50 years ago remodeled into its present shape with some bits added on. Insulation not the best, I've done what I could to the accessible parts. And even with long johns on I get cold, so my thermostat where on the wall is 73 gives me about 68 where I sit. Ceiling fan helps. The $700 was unusual.

Our house is at least 120 years old. The frame is pegged together. Abouty 20 years ago we had it taken down to the beams and started over and out in spray foam insulation. Made a huge difference.

If I were you, I'd get a pellet stove. I'm running mine right now as the furnace is DOA though I did get the parts today. My pellet stove puts out a nice steady 60K Btu and it keeps the entire house warm (it's 69 in here right now.). My wife prefers it. I prefer the less expensive fuel because I pay for it. I have my pellet stove on a remote thermostat so I allow the thermostat to regulate the heat output. We have had pellet stoves for at least 25 years now. I'm on my 3rd, they do wear out.

If I run straight pellets and no propane to heat the house, a typical Michigan winter consumes 5 ton of pellets or about $ 1000.00 worth if I pre-buy by the ton at Tractor Supply. You do have to have the equipment to handle them (I do) a GN trailer to haul 5 ton and forks on one of the M's to unload them and put them in the barn.

First year I had the multi fuel, I burned 1/2 pellets and 1/2 shelled corn. Shelled corn yields about 50% more btu's per pound than pellets do but you have to have a multi-fuel stove to burn them. I watch the price per ton on old crop shelled corn. As of late (last 2 years) the cost per bushel was too much to make corn a viable fuel. Problem with shelled corn is storage. Pellets come in bags, shelled corn comes in bulk, delivered by a feed truck. I have to grain bins 1000 bushels each so I have them auger in 600 bushel or so at a time.

Burning pellets or corn is still labor intensive to a degree compared to a furnace. You have to clean the stove regularly, I clean mine weekly, empty the ashes out and monthly, vacuum out the stove and remove all the fly ash and it's a dirty job. Once or twice a year I clean the vent pipe as well plus the drives that deliver the fuel need lubricated yearly so it does entail some labor and it's a hands on deal.

I base what I heat with on cost per BTU. The last 2 years, propane is less expensive than pellets or shelled corn.

It is nice to have the stove running with the fire and the continuous heat but in my case the cost per BTU isn't there.

Glad I have the stove with the furnace on the fritz. At least we aren't freezing to death in here. Actually, even last night at 18 degrees, the house was at 68.

Picked up the parts today and I'll install them tomorrow or Wednesday.

I have a USSC 6039 Hearth Focus Multi fuel stove btw. TSC sells them. I think they are around 1300 bucks now.

Propane for me is cheaper ($1.45 a gallon) than pellets at 4 bucks a bag but in your case I think a multi-fuel pellet stove might help your propane bill and give you some much needed warmth. Ours vents right through a wall and pulls it's combustion air in from outside too.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Re: Furnace too a dump...

Michigan should offer some incentives, they just socked it to us on the MCCA fee. 220 bucks a vehicle per year. Highway robbery and the governor wants to increase the fuel tax 43 cents a gallon. I didn't vote for her...