Function of Stop Solenoid

rbargeron

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Most K machines have a stop solenoid, activating to stop fuel flow when the key turns to “off”. Depending on when built there are two versions of what happens after that.

On older models (roughly through 2002) the solenoid's rest position is RETRACTED, allowing fuel to flow. With engine running, KEY-OFF activates it from rest to EXTENDED, cutting the fuel supply. A timer shuts it off a few seconds later - a spring RESETs it to the retracted position where flow is re-enabled for starting next time. Up to 2003 a solenoid like this was installed on 149 Kubota models.
earlier stop solenoid.jpg

Starting around 2003 and operation was changed. The new solenoid's rest position was EXTENDED, blocking fuel. On KEY-ON it RETRACTS, allowing fuel to flow. On KEY-OFF its spring returns it to EXTENDED, the rest position, shutting off fuel (no timer involved). The difference was that active 12v power is needed to keep fuel flowing. This type solenoid is used in another 96 machines. (thx to Messick's for model counts)
later stop solenoid.jpg

Its another place to look when a rig won’t start or quits while running. Dick B
 
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eserv

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BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
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As most owners know, our tractors have a stop solenoid that activates to stop fuel to the engine when the key turns to “off”. What seems to be less well-known is that there are two versions of what comes next.

On older models (roughly through 2002) the solenoid's rest position is retracted, allowing flow. When running, KEY-OFF activates it from rest to EXTENDED, cutting the fuel aupply. A timer shuts it off a few seconds later, a spring RESETs it to the retracted position where flow is re-enabled for starting next time. Up to 2003 a solenoid like this was installed on 149 Kubota models.
View attachment 63327

For models in 2003 and later the operation is different. The solenoid's rest position is already EXTENDED, blocking fuel. On KEY-ON the new type RETRACTS against a spring, allowing fuel to flow. On KEY-OFF it goes to its EXTENDED rest position, shutting off fuel (no timer needed). The difference is that active 12v power is needed to keep fuel flowing to the injection pump. The solenoid below is the type used in 96 models. (thx Messick's)
View attachment 63328

Another possibility to keep in mind when a rig won’t start or quits while running. Sorry if I'm late to the party with this. Dick B
The Super Mini ( D722 and D902) work like the first example, the Super 05 and the Super 03 series are like the last example.
 
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twomany

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It is important to know that the "energize to open" type fuel cut off solenoid has two supply wires.

One circuit provides high current for the pull in requirement. the other circuit provides the low current draw holding windings.

Details, but details matter. ;-)
 

PoTreeBoy

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It is important to know that the "energize to open" type fuel cut off solenoid has two supply wires.

One circuit provides high current for the pull in requirement. the other circuit provides the low current draw holding windings.

Details, but details matter. ;-)
Now you've opened the worm can!
I'm not sure all of the new style have two coils. But some tractors with two coils keep both energized - they're wired in parallel.
 
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twomany

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Worms!

Every variation on a theme.

The important thing to know is that they all take a controller these days.

Energizing after key off timers or current limiting circuits. The solenoid is just the dumb servant.
 

rangyone

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My 2019 BX1880 stalls when I touch the accelerator or activate the mower deck. I thought my stop solenoid was the issue, but when I replaced it the problem continued. I called my local dealer and they were less than helpful. I discovered that if I disconnected the stop solenoid the stalling problems were gone. The dealer suggested I do not run the tractor with the wires disengaged. So, will it hurt the tractor doing so? What might be triggering the stop solenoid to engage?
 

whitetiger

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My 2019 BX1880 stalls when I touch the accelerator or activate the mower deck. I thought my stop solenoid was the issue, but when I replaced it the problem continued. I called my local dealer and they were less than helpful. I discovered that if I disconnected the stop solenoid the stalling problems were gone. The dealer suggested I do not run the tractor with the wires disengaged. So, will it hurt the tractor doing so? What might be triggering the stop solenoid to engage?
One of your safety switches is not functioning properly or you have a harness problem. Check your seat safety switch.
 
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Henro

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My 2019 BX1880 stalls when I touch the accelerator or activate the mower deck. I thought my stop solenoid was the issue, but when I replaced it the problem continued. I called my local dealer and they were less than helpful. I discovered that if I disconnected the stop solenoid the stalling problems were gone. The dealer suggested I do not run the tractor with the wires disengaged. So, will it hurt the tractor doing so? What might be triggering the stop solenoid to engage?
My guess would be if the safety circuit activates the fuel cutoff solenoid, the dealer would have little legal recourse if he told you it was OK to run the tractor with the cut off solenoid disconnected, should something bad happen.

I doubt running the tractor with the solenoid disconnected will do any harm to the tractor. But keep in mind the safety circuity will be disabled if you do.
 

lugbolt

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certain equipment and other brands using Kubota engines still use the external top mounted solenoids.

It is a dumb design! It works. Or more specifically it works most of the time.

On the newer ones the solenoid is at rest (not powered) with the engine running. When you turn the engine off it applies +12v to the solenoid via wires, fuse, and controller (aka "combination box") to retract the solenoid, which pulls the lever on the injection pump, which pulls the rack to the "no injection" position, therefore stopping the engine. It ain't gonna run if it ain't gettin no fuel.

IMO this style should all have a mechanical means to shut the engine off, external user-controlled lever and cable, a rod, whatever. Some of the older stuff had it/them.

Here is my issue with the design. Many of the earlier units, and some even to this day, have poor wiring. These units all get operated in dirty dusty nasty sometimes wet conditions and a lot of them don't get no lovin, they just stay dirty all the time. So what happens? The connections aren't sealed (I wish they all were), they get dirt in them then they corrode. Since the system works by application of +12v to shut the engine off, if for some reason a connection don't connect, or bad ground, or failed combination box or combination of one or more of those, the engine don't shut off. So if you roll the machine over, there's possibility that the fuse can fall out, and it won't die like it's supposed to. Second issue here is the CCV system. A lot of yall call it a pcv system. The government says that crankcase vapors can no longer be vented to the atmosphere, so no draft tubes are allowed. The vapors must be vented back into the engine. Well what they do is run a hose from the valve cover over to either the intake manifold or to the turbocharger compressor inlet. Great right? If you roll the machine, it will get oil into the intake tract. A diesel don't got any spark plugs (obviously), and needs air, compression and a combustible fuel to run. Most diesels will run on their own crankcase lube oil. So if you turn one upside down, and the oil from the crankcase/valve cover gets into the intake tract, the engine will continue to run regardless of whether or not the shutoff solenoid works. You can take it's fuel supply completely away and it will run until it either (1) runs out of oil (2) seizes up or (3) destroys itself--and I have seen all 3 happen. It is a safety issue that the government never thought about when it comes to diesel engines. I watched a BX tractor roll off an embankment, land upside down on the rollbar and loader (which was up in the air as high as it would go--probably why it rolled), and it sat there upside down, smoking like a freight train, running on it's own lube oil, for over 20 minutes. Mind you that when it's ingesting lube oil, there ain't no governor so this thing had to be running 5000 rpm. It finally kicked a rod out and even after that it still was trying to run, just was so low on power and having a rod rattling around it just couldn't self-sustain. Dangerous situation particularly on mowing equipment with spinning blades that will remove appendages in short order.

I owned (and loved) a G1900. Good mower. The biggest problem with those things was the wiring. It sucks. It sucked from day one. It gets nasty, dirty, corroded, the combination box dies, and it won't turn off when you take the key out. So you had to raise the hood and do one of two things: (1) reach up really close to the spinning fan and grab the shutoff lever and pull it to turn it off or (2) take the intake hose out of it's little placeholder and put your hand over the end of it until the engine died--assuming it didn't have no air leaks at the clamps/hoses. This was very very common on a lot of the old G series, and the T1600 too. GR's still use the design although the combination box is a little better. If the air intake leaked? LOL refer to #1 because it wouldn't die it'd just run rough and smoky. That was my only complaint with my G series, other than lack of available parts (I needed a deck for it). If it weren't for the wiring and combination box problems (and the deck) I'd still have it. A friend knew I had it and the deck was starting to get kinda bad, so I called him and said hey you want to buy a mower? $2300 later, he's a new owner of a good diesel mower--and he still mows with it (3 years later). Its' in dire need of a deck now though and none are to be found that aren't rusted bent broken or just junk.

Much of the updated stuff is completely different. They've gone to use of a block mounted 2 stage solenoid that needs +12v to keep the engine running, which is what they should have been using for ages. It doesn't solve rollover runaways, but it does solve the poor wiring and combination box failure. If you lose power to this style the engine is gonna stop. This applies to sub 25hp engines. Over 25hp, they are all electronically injected (with the exception of the B3350 and the ZD1511), so when you take power away from the ecu via a safety switch or key switch, it is not going to start, or run, period. Just like a EFI gas car. To solve rollover runaways, it's easy enough to incorporate a butterfly throttle valve in the intake to cut the air supply off on mechanical engines. And, by doing this is also reduces the compression pressure as the engine is turned off, so it doesn't kick back nearly as hard when the engine is shut off. Think: Old dodge 5.9 diesels-when you shut those things off they'd continue to turn until a certain point, then they'd abruptly reverse direction because a cylinder would be compressing a bunch of air, which acts like a spring, forces the piston back down the hole, turns the crank backwards, and causes the accessory drive belt to "chirp". Reducing the air going into the engine drastically reduces this issue. It would be beneficial on all of the sub 25hp mechanical engines, and would certainly be a bit of a safety feature should one of them get on it's lid. No air? No run. Oil or fuel either one.
 
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twomany

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B7200
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My B7200 has a Bowden cable fuel shut off
Another (non-Kubota) tractor with a Mitsubishi engine, The "electrical box" has been disconnected, and a carefully bent length of welding rod now performs the fuel cut off function.!
 

22R

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Feb 29, 2020
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I have a 1992 damm near pristine G1900 that came without the fuel cut solenoid so I ran a choke cable to the lever and manually kill it. The glow plug indicator on the dash does not work ( bulb good and glow plugs work fine ) and the seat safety switch does not seem to work. I suspect the combo box is the issue. What say you Mr Lugbolt ?
i have checked grounds etc
 

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