Fuel Lubricity

[Two Guns]

How many here use a additive for Lubricity for their diesel engines ???

For it is something we all need to start doing, every time one fuels up.
Talking much to a diesel mechanic / specialist. Have learned something
that we and others adding a lubricity additive to our engines . For the
diesel fuel we purchase now. Is not got enough in it to lube properly. Period..... !!!!
It's either pay a little now as one goes along. Or pay big time later.

There is some that some two-stroke oil every now and then. Some add tranny hydraulic fluids. But owners of diesel engines need to wake up and start with quality additive for lubricity.
There are several brands of additives. He swears by the Stanadyne brand.
They do make several formulas, anti-gel, booster, etc....
But the "True" additives you buy, is cheaper in the long run than other make shift items. Something to think about .....

I told him of this website, and joining this forum. He smiled and stated that
one thing that would be good for all is to tell owners of the diesel engines in dire need of lubricity for reason of the fuel that we have to purchase now.

Reason I believe in what this man says, not only is he a professional,
owns his own diesel speciality shop, works on most diesel engines in the area, builds special engines for companies for special applications. And is the only diesel mechanic in this district, that United Parcel Service (UPS), will let work on their trucks. Yes, I believe in him much, for the special reason, he is my oldest son...
..... two guns

 

[kuboman]

How many here use a additive for Lubricity for their diesel engines ???

For it is something we all need to start doing, every time one fuels up.
Talking much to a diesel mechanic / specialist. Have learned something
that we and others adding a lubricity additive to our engines . For the
diesel fuel we purchase now. Is not got enough in it to lube properly. Period..... !!!!
It's either pay a little now as one goes along. Or pay big time later.

There is some that some two-stroke oil every now and then. Some add tranny hydraulic fluids. But owners of diesel engines need to wake up and start with quality additive for lubricity.
There are several brands of additives. He swears by the Stanadyne brand.
They do make several formulas, anti-gel, booster, etc....
But the "True" additives you buy, is cheaper in the long run than other make shift items. Something to think about .....

I told him of this website, and joining this forum. He smiled and stated that
one thing that would be good for all is to tell owners of the diesel engines in dire need of lubricity for reason of the fuel that we have to purchase now.

Reason I believe in what this man says, not only is he a professional,
owns his own diesel speciality shop, works on most diesel engines in the area, builds special engines for companies for special applications. And is the only diesel mechanic in this district, that United Parcel Service (UPS), will let work on their trucks. Yes, I believe in him much, for the special reason, he is my oldest son...
..... two guns

Ya all preachin to the converted.

 

[bosshogg]

I use 2 stroke oil...see attached article:

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

 

[eserv]

Do not be dumping additives and oil into new Kubota's with DPF! It will cost you far more than any imagined lack of lubricity in modern fuel! Kubota have always recommended that you use good quality diesel fuel and nothing else in their engines. All other manufacturers that I know of recommend the same thing.

 

[Lil Foot]

I know we are talking Kubotas, but the principal amy still apply- BulletProof Diesel told me under no circumstances put additives in the fuel for my 6.0L F350. They recommended an additive for the oil..... something called Diesel Oil Conditioner.

 

[Two Guns]

I use 2 stroke oil...see attached article:

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnicalManuals/Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf

That is a very good article ....

Diesel fuel is NOT what it used to be. I can remember at a time, it was so slick, you couldn't wash it all off. The smell was different. And nobody had
engine troubles like they do now. Don't believe there is any quality diesel fuel anymore, or down here anyway......

....... two guns

 

[eserv]

Diesel fuel AND diesel engines are much different than they were a few years ago. You can run a diesel engine in the shop today and not smell any exhaust at all! (try that on any diesel 10 years ago or older) We are not seeing any fuel problems on Kubota tractors caused by fuel lubricity and we have to contend with much lower viscosity winter diesel. the only fuel system problems I've run into are caused by either water or gasoline contamination and even then usually when you clean up the offending fuel the tractor returns to proper operation.

 

[hodge]

I have read a LOT of threads, and a lot of articles, on diesel additives. It is about as bad as oil opinions, and makes politics look simple. There are plenty of testimonials from guys who have used them for years with no issues, and others who have never used an additive and their trucks are also racking up the miles (most of these threads have been read on diesel truck forums- probably a better barometer, since these engines are seeing a lot more use than with tractors). The consensus is that there is no consensus, although if trucks and tractors are running and running without additives, that shows that the fuel isn't as lacking for lubricity as some claim. Furthermore, there are as many recipes for adding lubricity as there are opinions, and at least some of them have to create problems over the long term.
Myself, I struggle with who to trust, plain and simple. While I completely understand where you are coming from, Two Guns, and I appreciate your sentiment, your sons knowledge and experience isn't exhaustive or definitive. I have read similar qualifications from others who have different opinions and experiences. I am not knocking your son, by no means. The topic is too broad, the variables too great, and the opinions too varied to say "this is the only way".
So, who can say? Those who engineer the engine and fuel delivery system, plain and simple. They know better what is sufficient for their engines than anyone else. So, read your owners manual, and if you have an old diesel that predates low sulfer fuel, see what the manufacturer says now.
I have a 94 Cummins, and I use powerservice in it. The previous owner used powerservice also. It has 211,000+ miles on it now. Did that help, hurt, neither? Who knows. I just know that it started today, and I trust it will start tomorrow.
Eserv is right- todays fuel is different, but so is todays diesel engines. If I had a newer diesel, I wouldn't make assumptions. I would trust the manufacturer.

 

[bosshogg]

Big Daddy Government removed sulfur and most of the lubricating properties of diesel fuel. Because of that, fuel pumps, injectors are having wear problems. Talk with any diesel mechanic.

 

[Lil Foot]

I ran Power Service in my 6.0L for 110,000+ miles, with no problems except one failed & two failing injectors.... poor injectors from Ford? injector failure caused by additives? or was the injector life extended to 110,000 miles by the additives? Who knows? All I can go by is that BulletProof Diesel said they have never seen a fuel-related injector failure, but have seen many oil-related injector failures. I doubt it will make much difference on my old beater B7100 either way, but perhaps I'd feel different if I owned a new, high dollar dream machine from Kubota. For now, at least, I will bow to the folks who do diesels for a living.

 

[kuboman]

Blind faith in the manufacturer is just that, 'blind'. To assume that any manufacturer is giving the advice that will give you the most life of your machine is unwise. They are more concerned with litigation than whether you get 10000 hrs from your machine or 100. As soon as warranty is done you are on your own and it wise to investigate beyond what the manufacturer states.
It is proven that the older engines suffer from the new ULSD. A good quality fuel conditioner used as recommended has never damaged an engine.

 

[Bulldog]

I have a neighbor down the road from me that has a 6.0L PS with about 180,000 on it. He told me that he has spent $8,000 on the fuel system since he owned it.

 

[eserv]

I have a neighbor down the road from me that has a 6.0L PS with about 180,000 on it. He told me that he has spent $8,000 on the fuel system since he owned it.

I'd say he's putting something besides clean diesel in there is he really is having mechanical problems with the injection system. ( electrical is a whole other kettle of fish!!)

 

[eserv]

When it is all said and done you are free to pour whatever you want into the fuel tank, after all, it IS your tractor! The fuel additve industry are gleefully getting rich.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I'm going off what I've seen and the diesels I've been around in my 10 years of truck driving. There are thousands of road tractors out there with well over a million to a million and a half miles on their engines and its been done with nothing more then routine maintenance and service. No mericale liquid in a bottle has been used, nothing other then Shell Rotella 15-W40 in the engine. Nobody I know of who's used Amsoil {sorry Bulldog} in their rigs and these engines are still getting it at well over one million miles.

There's still thousands of trucks that are pre-2007 that are hauling freight up and down the highways on this modern day diesel and haven't had an ounce of problems.

 

[dmanlyr]

It is important to understand that different injection pump types can be more sensitive to lubricity, or the lack therof.

Any diesel tech or operator worth his or her salt understands this.

as to a blanket statement on additives, there is not one answer fits all. If you have a pre low sulfer injection pump that requires lubricity of the fuel to lubricate it, such as the Rooseamaster pump used on many 6.9 and 6.2 diesel, then yes, lubricity is very important to long pump life OR you have the hardened and coated internal pump parts installed.

When you are talking about the bosch style injection pump that is lubed by crankcase (lube) oil, then the lubricity of the fuel oil becomes much less important. These style pumps are found on the larger diesels (as well as some small ones) which is why the larger ofer the road trucks suffered less from the reduced lubricity of the modern fuel.

As to the common rail systems used nowdays, well they were all set up for the ultra low sulfer fuel, and do not suffer lubricity issues, but they do suffer from being rated at a unstustainable for the long haul horsepower and torque rating.. which leads to all sort of mechanical failures, least of them being fueling system issues.

My thoughts .. David

 

[hodge]

Blind faith in the manufacturer is just that, 'blind'. To assume that any manufacturer is giving the advice that will give you the most life of your machine is unwise. They are more concerned with litigation than whether you get 10000 hrs from your machine or 100. As soon as warranty is done you are on your own and it wise to investigate beyond what the manufacturer states.
It is proven that the older engines suffer from the new ULSD. A good quality fuel conditioner used as recommended has never damaged an engine.

Why wouldn't a manufacturer be forthright in what it takes to keep their machines going? They have to warranty them- they certainly aren't going to tell you to do something harmful, costing them in warranty work.

As far as the fuel goes, additives are put in the diesel to compensate for the loss in lubricity. Again, one report says it isn't enough, another says it is more than sufficient. Couple that with about a zillion variables- driving conditions, heat conditions, owner care, owner driving style, how hard the engine is worked, how babied the engine is (which isn't good for a diesel), and on and on. Then, you have different manufacturers of fuel, different cetane ratings, different tanks and delivery services, different additive packages, and different blends for summer and winter. Without taking a series of engines and subjecting them to the exact same conditions, with different fuel configurations, you will never 100% be able to say what is best. All you can do is do what works for you.
And David threw the next variable in the mix- different engine technologies, which includes different methods to treat exhaust. Unless someone can show a completely unbiased, exhaustive test that proves one way or the other, the only barometer is the manufacturer, who has every reason to see their product last at least through the warranty period. They are going to advise you on what is best for that piece of equipment. Sure they have underlying motives- expensive, exclusive oils and other products for their machines. You can buy into that, or not. But, I still trust their recommendations, within the framework of what their requirements are, and if other, less expensive products meet those requirements.
That's my thoughts.
Mark

 

[eserv]

Why wouldn't a manufacturer be forthright in what it takes to keep their machines going? They have to warranty them- they certainly aren't going to tell you to do something harmful, costing them in warranty work.

Well they might Hodge, they have to guarantee to the government that the engines will pass emissions which they might not do with additives. if they endorsed an additive that made them not conform they likely would be liable to a fine. So even if they knew an additive would be beneficial they wouldn't want to say so? Deutz used to instruct us to use ATF in their fuel to correct fuel rack sticking in extreme cold weather but they don't anymore! ( It still works though)

 

[manofaus]

6000hrs on a cummins motor before midlife (injector change, fuel pump) 12000hrs full rebuild. Off highway use. New cat engines tier 4 3000hrs injector change, 6000 hrs injector change and pump, 9000 injector change, 12000 hrs full rebuild. Shut off a tier 4 cat engine under load at full revs too many times you will burn or melt the tips off the injectors.. Being earthmoving gear they spend 80% at 100% load. 250k for a engine rebuild. Nobody that I know of in this industry adds any thing to their diesel. It is (xl) (extremely low) sulfur fuel too.

 

[GWD]

Geez...how many times do we have to go through this?

Anyway, here are the results of an independent study. Products are named so you can make your own choice of adding lubricant or not.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728

Oh, and I use Opti-Lube XPD.

http://opti-lube.com/xpd-diesel-fuel-improver-product.html