Folding ROPS

[rjcorazza]

This is all anecdotal evidence driven by emotion, bunch of heard this and saw that but not a shred of real proof that drilling a hole in the ROPS or welding a tab on had caused death or injury or lawsuit. Lets see those docs. If a problem like this really exists it will be documented for reference and easily available. I thinik everyone groups home use equipment with regulated employee safety standards

I totally understand why a major manufacturer like Kubota cant install un-certified ROPS on a machine then sell it, it has to do with OSHA compliance if it might be used by an business with employees

Don’t worry yourself about it, it will never happen to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[motionclone]

Don***8217;t worry yourself about it, it will never happen to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What will happen to me? Thats all im asking here. Not what people THINK MAY happen but would like to see some hard evidence of what could ACTUALLY HAPPEN from doing a little welding on or drilling on ROPS attached to a little kubota tractor that joe shmo mows the law with or scrapes the driveway.

Logic and evidence so far says nothing will happen to me if im a homeowner responsibly modding a ROPs even if I sell or trade it in later.

Law only says Ill get a fine from OSHA if I mod a ROPs on a piece of equipment that i provide to an EMPLOYEE and fail to get it re-certified after the mod.

Hate to get into arguments here but would like to know what the real answers are instead of the usual blanket statements that have no documentation to back them up except that its what everyone else says.

 

[motionclone]

Heres why this thread bothers me.

My L345DT didnt come with a ROPS it was too old. Ordered one from Kubota dealer for around $300. It came in 2 Pieces and they were manufactured incorrectly. One side was longer than the other by an inch maybe more. No possible way to make it work except to drill or to cut and re-weld.

Dealer says he'll order a new one but would take a couple months. I tell him I had to mow a hilly field that I was unfamiliar with so would it be ok to just cut and weld or drill new holes because it would be better than nothing. He says NO. DO NOT CUT OR DRILL. So I mowdr my hilly, potentially dangerous field with no ROPS rather than a modified ROPS because dealer decided they wanted the old one back unmodified.

That defied logic, no ROPS is safer than a welded one? I dont think so. But I did understand why he said not to mod it....Liability


BTW my 2 piece Rops only has a certification tag on one side of it. When my new 2nd ROPS finally came in I brought back the old one but before leaving the dealership, I put the 2 halves of the new one side by side and those were way off too. I ended up taking one half of the new set and keeping the one side of the first set as this combo was the closest fit. Still had to open up some holes to make it all fit together.

 

[skeets]

Finding that information will be damned near imposable, And I will tell you why, in all the reports I have been able to track down the only cause listed has been roll over thats with both ROPS ( over 20hp) and non ROPS ( pre 1976) machines. The only way is to get the notes of the people that were there, and thats not going to happen unless a lawsuit has been filed or a civil case is started. Just stay the course and you will be fine

 

[motionclone]

Finding that information will be damned near imposable,

Where do all the nay sayers get their info then?

I think its just well intended talk not backed up by any real evidence.

Part of the problem with the rhetoric is that workplace safety standards enforced by OSHA are getting mixed in with the average tractor owner here who are not subject to those regulations or liabilities.

My example above with my own ROPS situation where dealer was more concerned with regulations, liabilities that I was told to go without a ROPS rather than mod , defying logic...common sense.

 

[skeets]

Me? Boy I have seen it first hand, I have had to tell mothers and wives their boy or husband will not be home, EVER! The numbers are out there you just have to dig for them. Yes people do die from rollovers. it happens more often than we would like.
you do remind me of some rookies I had to train, hard headed and unbending, until they saw things first hand. Do as you will and I wish you luck

 

[motionclone]

Me? Boy I have seen it first hand, I have had to tell mothers and wives their boy or husband will not be home, EVER! The numbers are out there you just have to dig for them. Yes people do die from rollovers. it happens more often than we would like.
you do remind me of some rookies I had to train, hard headed and unbending, until they saw things first hand. Do as you will and I wish you luck

We arent talking about people who die of rollovers, there is no disputing that.

 

[motionclone]

Has anyone here modified the ROPS on a BX model so that you can fold it down? I don't want to remove it, but I'll have to trim a lot of trees to get it under them.
I am considering using some 1/4" plate to make a hinge that would be at least as strong as the original structure.

Any ideas or previous examples?

Hey OP, If youre a competent welder go for it using the same design as a factory folding one. There is no magic to any of this its basic fabrication, steel, weld bead and very basic engineering. Don't let all the emotional people sway you without providing some hard evidence to back up some of these wild, sky falling claims.

Dont put an employee in the tractor without re-certifying the ROPs though.

 

[Michigankubota]

It’s heating up

 

[dlsmith]

Hey OP, If youre a competent welder go for it using the same design as a factory folding one. There is no magic to any of this its basic fabrication, steel, weld bead and very basic engineering. Don't let all the emotional people sway you without providing some hard evidence to back up some of these wild, sky falling claims.

Dont put an employee in the tractor without re-certifying the ROPs though.

That's what I'm considering doing. My property is all flat except for some slopes on the back side of the house that are no more than 15°. I can easily fabricate a joint that will be stronger than the original tubing with some 1/4" steel plate. Besides, my BX has filled rear tires, so that lowers the CG more than normal.
While I'm not an educated, card carrying engineer, I would like to see proof that the weakest points on a BX ROPS aren't the welded areas at the mounts and the bends. The ROPS is basically a paralleogram and without a triangulating brace to opposite corners, it's going to deform at the corners, as they are the weakest points. My modification is not going to affect the strength at those points. I've seen a few rollovers, and unless it was onto a protruding object like a rock or a concrete wall, the vertical and horizontal tubes were undamaged.
I have no employees that would be operating the tractor as it is only for my personal use, so that's not an issue.

Having been around heavy equipment for a long time, I understand the risks involved, and I also know common sense is the most often missing factor in accidents.

So, I'm going to design a joint to install, and have a local shop look at it to get their opinion, and if they think it looks acceptable, this spring I'll do the installation.

I did recently see a good example of modification of an original design turning deadly. A friend sent me a video of a pilot who built and experimental aircraft, a low wing, two place composite construction bird, designed to be powered by a 100 hp Corvair flat six engine. After flying it for a while, the need for speed over came his knowledge of aircraft design, and he replaced the Corvair engine with a 200 hp Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. He was hoping to increase his cruise speed from 160 mph to around 200 mph. He also modified both wing's internal wing tanks to increase the capacity about 50%. When the video was made, he hadn't flown it yet, but was getting close to it.
My friend sent me a link last week from an article near where the pilot was based, relating that he had been killed when the aircraft came apart in flight. Now who would have seen that coming.
I also repowered my airplane, a 1960 Beechcraft Debonair. When I bought it, it had a tired IO-470 Continental, and a company in Minnesota has an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate) to install a later IO-520 or IO-550 Continental engine. The manual for doing the conversion was very comprehensive, and part of the conversion included installing some doublers in the area of the engine mounts the handle the additional stress for going from 225 hp to 285 hp. I worked under the close supervision of a local A&I (An A&P with an inspection authorization) and did all the work myself. When I was finished he signed off on it and said I had done and excellent job. The plane is a completely different animal now, and performs the same as a later model that was built with the IO-520, while burning the same amount of fuel as the old tired 470.
The company the I purchased the engine and installation kit from spent years generating piles of paperwork and doing hundreds of hours of light testing to satisfy the FAA engineers, even though Beechcraft installed the same engines in later models that were nearly identical in structure to my plane.

So I appreciate all the comments and opinions and have read and considered all of them in my decision.


Good gosh, this request for some information has take on the dimensions of a political debate. Never would have guessed it.

Keep the orange side up!

 

[seanbarr]

What will happen to me? Thats all im asking here. Not what people THINK MAY happen but would like to see some hard evidence of what could ACTUALLY HAPPEN from doing a little welding on or drilling on ROPS attached to a little kubota tractor that joe shmo mows the law with or scrapes the driveway.

Logic and evidence so far says nothing will happen to me if im a homeowner responsibly modding a ROPs even if I sell or trade it in later.

Law only says Ill get a fine from OSHA if I mod a ROPs on a piece of equipment that i provide to an EMPLOYEE and fail to get it re-certified after the mod.

Hate to get into arguments here but would like to know what the real answers are instead of the usual blanket statements that have no documentation to back them up except that its what everyone else says.

I agree. I’ve done crazy amounts of equipment modifications for customers and they are documented that they understand what was done.

Disconnected airbags? Done
Installed custom running boards? Done
Relocated seatbelts? Done
Built steel & wooden seats for prisoner vans? Done
Modified door locks & latches? Done

Never in 25+ years have I encountered an issue with a single customer or government agency.

Document it if you do plan to sell modified equipment and have the buyer sign off on the disclosure.

I think I’m gonna rip off the mattress tags now...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[D2Cat]

Seanbarr, I'm with you! Don't forget the tags under the chairs. And be sure to properly dispose of all plastic bags properly, someone is more likely to suffocate from one of those then die from a drilled ROPS.