Flow valve for rear remotes - flail mower

abedlamite

New member

Equipment
L4600DT, RTV 400ci, ZG222
Jul 1, 2022
5
0
1
Central Alabama
I've been lurking for a few years and finally made an account. Figured it was time!

I recently installed a Summit Hydraulic 4-spool electric rear remote kit to my L4600. I also purchased a Titan 65" ditch mower, which I just tested out today. There was a bit of a learning curve trying to memorize which of the four buttons on the joystick did what, but it did a great job mowing the bank of the pond and some areas that I've never been able to mow before.

However, it is very difficult to feather these controls. I had read this ahead of time and was prepared, but goodness, does it shake the hell of out the tractor during movement. Especially the horizontal extension. Retracting isn't as bad. I understand that with electric spool valves, when you press the button it's all out open, hence the explosive movement. Will a flow control valve help with the jerky/forceful operation? If so, where would I install it? On the main line coming from the power beyond before it hits the rear valve manifold?

The way I hooked up my remotes was to take the green line from the power beyond under the floor board to the P on the rear manifold, then from the T port it runs to the P port on a 3rd function kit under my controls for the FEL (for grapple), then the return line goes back to the power beyond. So the rear remotes are first in the sequence. I don't know if that matters, but the thumb function on the grapple is smooth, which is also an electronic spool.

I've also noticed that the rear manifold got HOT. As in, when I went to disconnect the hoses after I unhooked the ditch mower, (30 mins mowing) I could not do so with my bare hand. I've never noticed the FEL couplers getting hot before I installed the rear remotes. Is that reason to be concerned? I felt along the hoses in the sequence and they were pretty warm, but not too hot to touch. It was about 90 degrees, which is normal operating temp for this tractor, and I regularly clear the radiator screen and check coolant.

Basically this is the first implement I've used with rear remotes, and I'm not sure what to expect yet. I certainly don't want to overwork my pump, and I've read some warnings about flow valves/restrictors causing hose failure, so i wanted to get the opinion of Kubota people before I make any changes to my setup.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,737
4,480
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
I've been lurking for a few years and finally made an account. Figured it was time!

I recently installed a Summit Hydraulic 4-spool electric rear remote kit to my L4600. I also purchased a Titan 65" ditch mower, which I just tested out today. There was a bit of a learning curve trying to memorize which of the four buttons on the joystick did what, but it did a great job mowing the bank of the pond and some areas that I've never been able to mow before.

However, it is very difficult to feather these controls. I had read this ahead of time and was prepared, but goodness, does it shake the hell of out the tractor during movement. Especially the horizontal extension. Retracting isn't as bad. I understand that with electric spool valves, when you press the button it's all out open, hence the explosive movement. Will a flow control valve help with the jerky/forceful operation? If so, where would I install it? On the main line coming from the power beyond before it hits the rear valve manifold?

The way I hooked up my remotes was to take the green line from the power beyond under the floor board to the P on the rear manifold, then from the T port it runs to the P port on a 3rd function kit under my controls for the FEL (for grapple), then the return line goes back to the power beyond. So the rear remotes are first in the sequence. I don't know if that matters, but the thumb function on the grapple is smooth, which is also an electronic spool.

I've also noticed that the rear manifold got HOT. As in, when I went to disconnect the hoses after I unhooked the ditch mower, (30 mins mowing) I could not do so with my bare hand. I've never noticed the FEL couplers getting hot before I installed the rear remotes. Is that reason to be concerned? I felt along the hoses in the sequence and they were pretty warm, but not too hot to touch. It was about 90 degrees, which is normal operating temp for this tractor, and I regularly clear the radiator screen and check coolant.

Basically this is the first implement I've used with rear remotes, and I'm not sure what to expect yet. I certainly don't want to overwork my pump, and I've read some warnings about flow valves/restrictors causing hose failure, so i wanted to get the opinion of Kubota people before I make any changes to my setup.
Your FEL couplers are not getting continuous flow like the ones on the mower. If they were they would get just as hot, Hydraulic oil temperature can easily reach 150F which will scald you.

Flow restrictors would go in the lines to the implement and you can expect the oil to get even hotter.

Dan
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,737
4,480
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
I've been lurking for a few years and finally made an account. Figured it was time!

I recently installed a Summit Hydraulic 4-spool electric rear remote kit to my L4600. I also purchased a Titan 65" ditch mower, which I just tested out today. There was a bit of a learning curve trying to memorize which of the four buttons on the joystick did what, but it did a great job mowing the bank of the pond and some areas that I've never been able to mow before.

However, it is very difficult to feather these controls. I had read this ahead of time and was prepared, but goodness, does it shake the hell of out the tractor during movement. Especially the horizontal extension. Retracting isn't as bad. I understand that with electric spool valves, when you press the button it's all out open, hence the explosive movement. Will a flow control valve help with the jerky/forceful operation? If so, where would I install it? On the main line coming from the power beyond before it hits the rear valve manifold?

The way I hooked up my remotes was to take the green line from the power beyond under the floor board to the P on the rear manifold, then from the T port it runs to the P port on a 3rd function kit under my controls for the FEL (for grapple), then the return line goes back to the power beyond. So the rear remotes are first in the sequence. I don't know if that matters, but the thumb function on the grapple is smooth, which is also an electronic spool.

I've also noticed that the rear manifold got HOT. As in, when I went to disconnect the hoses after I unhooked the ditch mower, (30 mins mowing) I could not do so with my bare hand. I've never noticed the FEL couplers getting hot before I installed the rear remotes. Is that reason to be concerned? I felt along the hoses in the sequence and they were pretty warm, but not too hot to touch. It was about 90 degrees, which is normal operating temp for this tractor, and I regularly clear the radiator screen and check coolant.

Basically this is the first implement I've used with rear remotes, and I'm not sure what to expect yet. I certainly don't want to overwork my pump, and I've read some warnings about flow valves/restrictors causing hose failure, so i wanted to get the opinion of Kubota people before I make any changes to my setup.
I may have been hasty in my first reply.

What exsctly did you purchase from Summit? If its one of the hydraulic multipliers it is not a control valve and you don't hook it into the power beyond circuit. That would be a big no-no.

The multipliers are a diverter valve that lets you use an existing remote valve on the tractor to control more than one set of outlets. You hook it to the work ports on that valve. Then the swirch box selects which set of rear outlets are connected to the work ports on your remote valve. The remote valve is what contrils the cylinder(s) and does the metering (feathering).

Dan
 

abedlamite

New member

Equipment
L4600DT, RTV 400ci, ZG222
Jul 1, 2022
5
0
1
Central Alabama
Your FEL couplers are not getting continuous flow like the ones on the mower. If they were they would get just as hot, Hydraulic oil temperature can easily reach 150F which will scald you.

Flow restrictors would go in the lines to the implement and you can expect the oil to get even hotter.

Dan
Okay, that makes sense about the FEL couplers. I guess I just didn't think about how the normal operation through the hoses would cause friction and get hot. Duh. And the manifold is metal, so double duh. I didn't get an actual burn, so it likely wasn't too terribly hot. I worked in kitchens for quite a few years so I'm accustomed to grabbing things out of 500 degree broilers, and it wasn't anything like that.

As far as the restrictors, would they need to go on each line for the mower, for a total of four restrictors, yes?


I may have been hasty in my first reply.

What exsctly did you purchase from Summit? If its one of the hydraulic multipliers it is not a control valve and you don't hook it into the power beyond circuit. That would be a big no-no.

The multipliers are a diverter valve that lets you use an existing remote valve on the tractor to control more than one set of outlets. You hook it to the work ports on that valve. Then the swirch box selects which set of rear outlets are connected to the work ports on your remote valve. The remote valve is what contrils the cylinder(s) and does the metering (feathering).

Dan


No, not one of the multipliers. I got the 4 spool of the above link. I can get a photo of the setup on the tractor tomorrow if it would help. And thank you for the quick reply!
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,737
4,480
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
Okay, that makes sense about the FEL couplers. I guess I just didn't think about how the normal operation through the hoses would cause friction and get hot. Duh. And the manifold is metal, so double duh. I didn't get an actual burn, so it likely wasn't too terribly hot. I worked in kitchens for quite a few years so I'm accustomed to grabbing things out of 500 degree broilers, and it wasn't anything like that.

As far as the restrictors, would they need to go on each line for the mower, for a total of four restrictors, yes?






No, not one of the multipliers. I got the 4 spool of the above link. I can get a photo of the setup on the tractor tomorrow if it would help. And thank you for the quick reply!
The ports in those D03 valves are relatively small (.28) and you have four (five counting the 3rd function) in series so they generate a good bit of heat and the aluminum manifold is an excellent conductor.

Put the restrictors in each of the hoses going to the cylinders. Thats the flow you want to limit. You may still get some jarring when those Wham Bam Thank You Mam valves open.

Dan
 

billskeen66

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
Kubota LX2610HSDC
May 21, 2022
14
3
3
Dallas, TX
I've been lurking for a few years and finally made an account. Figured it was time!

I recently installed a Summit Hydraulic 4-spool electric rear remote kit to my L4600. I also purchased a Titan 65" ditch mower, which I just tested out today. There was a bit of a learning curve trying to memorize which of the four buttons on the joystick did what, but it did a great job mowing the bank of the pond and some areas that I've never been able to mow before.

However, it is very difficult to feather these controls. I had read this ahead of time and was prepared, but goodness, does it shake the hell of out the tractor during movement. Especially the horizontal extension. Retracting isn't as bad. I understand that with electric spool valves, when you press the button it's all out open, hence the explosive movement. Will a flow control valve help with the jerky/forceful operation? If so, where would I install it? On the main line coming from the power beyond before it hits the rear valve manifold?

The way I hooked up my remotes was to take the green line from the power beyond under the floor board to the P on the rear manifold, then from the T port it runs to the P port on a 3rd function kit under my controls for the FEL (for grapple), then the return line goes back to the power beyond. So the rear remotes are first in the sequence. I don't know if that matters, but the thumb function on the grapple is smooth, which is also an electronic spool.

I've also noticed that the rear manifold got HOT. As in, when I went to disconnect the hoses after I unhooked the ditch mower, (30 mins mowing) I could not do so with my bare hand. I've never noticed the FEL couplers getting hot before I installed the rear remotes. Is that reason to be concerned? I felt along the hoses in the sequence and they were pretty warm, but not too hot to touch. It was about 90 degrees, which is normal operating temp for this tractor, and I regularly clear the radiator screen and check coolant.

Basically this is the first implement I've used with rear remotes, and I'm not sure what to expect yet. I certainly don't want to overwork my pump, and I've read some warnings about flow valves/restrictors causing hose failure, so i wanted to get the opinion of Kubota people before I make any changes to my setup.
How did your flow restrictors work out?
Are you having any issues maintaining positions on the flail mower?
I keep having to momentarily press the switches to tweak the position the flail back to where I want it. I was warned that the valves' bleeding are an issue with the Summit electric spools.
 

TheOldHokie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
8,737
4,480
113
Myersville, MD
windyridgefarm.us
How did your flow restrictors work out?
Are you having any issues maintaining positions on the flail mower?
I keep having to momentarily press the switches to tweak the position the flail back to where I want it. I was warned that the valves' bleeding are an issue with the Summit electric spools.
Spool valves leaking internally is a universal issue. Its all a matter of degree. Heres a little arithmetic. OEMs generally publish a leakage specification for their valves. For valves in this size range the numbers generally range from 6 to 10+ cc/minute. If we assume a 2" cylinder and just 3 cc/minute leakage the cylinder will drift a full inch in roughly 17 minutes. Its simply the nature of spool valves and if its a problem you need to find a way to lock the cylinders. Putting pilot operated check valves on the cylinder ports is a common remedy.

Dan
 

abedlamite

New member

Equipment
L4600DT, RTV 400ci, ZG222
Jul 1, 2022
5
0
1
Central Alabama
How did your flow restrictors work out?
Are you having any issues maintaining positions on the flail mower?
I keep having to momentarily press the switches to tweak the position the flail back to where I want it. I was warned that the valves' bleeding are an issue with the Summit electric spools.
I held off getting them for while due to lack of free time to work on the tractor right now. I'm going to try to deal with it in hopes I just get better at operating the switches or just get used to the shaking.