Flail versus Rotary cutter

[Old_Paint]

I tend to overthink things that I spend lots of money on. I have no idea how I might go about searching for opinions of flail mowers versus rotary cutters, so I'm gonna go ahead and just ask. I tried a couple searches but got either/or but nothing comparing both.

Pricing appears to be about the same range for a 6' flail versus a 5' rotary cutter. A 5' rotary cutter would probably be a little large for my LX2610, and I'm wondering if I'd be better off with a flail since it uses higher speed and inertia for it's dirty work and chews stuff up pretty fine for mulching into the soil. I have a lot of undergrowth, but nothing real large. Anything larger than my thumb I pretty much plan to cut with the chain saw and feed to the WC68 anyway. That leaves a bunch of itty bitty stumps behind that I think a flail mower would do nicely around rather than rattling my teeth with a rotary when I hit them. My biggest concern is if there's more risk of tire puncture after they've been hit with a flail or if the risk is greater with stuff chopped up with a rotary cutter.

Is my thought process flawed? I need to do something, because the area I'm trying to maintain with the Swisher I bought when I was poorer but more able bodied is becoming a challenge. The Swisher is a brute of a machine, and will handle 3/4" brush, but being dragged around by that thing in rough terrain and beat half to death by the handlebars is getting to be too much. Besides that, it's only 24" cut, so not only is it abusive, it's abusive for a long time. Not complaining about the construction of the Swisher Predator 24 at all. I wanted heavy duty, I got heavy duty. But now it stoves me up for a couple days when I try to use it, if it doesn't throw my back out. Time to put something behind the SU.

Would appreciate any input from anyone who's owned both a flail and a brush-hog type mower, and what their preference was for vines and brushy undergrowth. For that matter, I think I'd like to hear the reasons someone bought one versus the other. I think that a flail would have a little bit longer longevity for practicality because it's apparently better for grass. Eventually, the rotary cutter will be more trouble to maintain than it's worth, not to mention it takes a lot more space to store one. Is my logic faulty? Would a flail be better in brambles, PI, and small brush? Anything too big for the flail can be sawn down and fed to the WC68 as mentioned above. Looking at the ratings for rotary cutters, gotta step up in duty pretty high to handle the brush I'm talking about. Problem is, once I get it done, I won't need that kind of duty again, and I'll have a piece of equipment that obsoleted itself.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Elliott in GA]

When I bought my tractor, I purchased a rotary cutter to clear/reclaim pasture and a finish mower to mow pasture. I elected to get a rotary cutter versus a flail for two reasons: (1) flail mowers can/will suck up debris (sticks and rocks) that are then jammed into the flail mower and (2) flail mowers can only cut well close to the ground (they do not do well being lowered onto big briar patches that conceal who knows what at ground level - you can top briar patches with a rotary cutter to allow inspection before commiting to a close cut.

Since I am reclaiming areas with lots of briar patches and downed sticks/limbs, the rotary cutter was a better choice for me.

The Messicks video covers most of the pros and cons of a flail - including a jammed stick at the 2 minute mark.

 

[NHSleddog]

I have and regularly use both. Really two different rigs. The flail (with hammer knives) will do a much better job cut and mulch wise. It will handle saplings up to an inch without an issue.

The rotary is slightly faster and handles abuse better.

If I could only have one, I would go with the rotary. If I had primarily clean field type mowing, I would get the flail.

 

[B737]

adding to Elliott and NHS... I also have both and treat them like two different tools for different jobs. The rotary for the really gnarly stuff, faster cutting, larger open spaces, it may crash into things, hit stumps, or debris and I dont worry about it. Thick woods, or fields where I don't know if there are obstacles. Cuts grass like complete crap.

The flail I use on light brush with less risk of hitting stumps or debris. I am more mindful about the many moving parts and belts. I love how the flail mower cuts grass, that's really where it shines (to me). It's almost like a finish mower. I can knock down new growth in the woods (that have already been cleared), then drive it over to the field that's only cut 2 times a year, and it makes it look like a lawn. I find the flail to be more maneuverable than the 60" brush hog. If I bought a flail for LX I would get an offset 54-60", mine is only 48".

Elliotts point about the Flail mower performing the best close to the ground is spot on.

@bird dogger has run his flail through some seriously thick untamed woods, hopefully he'll be by to share some pictures.

 

[Old_Paint]

@bird dogger has run his flail through some seriously thick untamed woods, hopefully he'll be by to share some pictures.

Most of my property has been feral for going on 50 years, so perhaps it could be called seriously thick untamed woods where I haven't thinned it out and killed off 6 inch diameter poison ivy vines. The previous owners weren't very 'outdoorsy' and didn't even rake the leaves in the finished portion of the yard. It's taken me nearly 17 years to get grass growing and have a presentable lawn on about 1/3 of the property. There are still enormous scuppernong (muscadine) vines back there that had TONS of grapes on them this year. The problem is, most of them are 60 feet up in the tops of the trees. Birds and squirrels won't mess with 'em, so it's smelling a bit sour back there where so many have fallen and rotted. Dragged a bunch of burst grapes into my shop on the pallets I was disassembling today, and made a complete mess on the floor. Looks like I'm getting some muriatic acid to bleach the floor when I get done with all my mess making.

Good info about the flail. I've never used one, but have spent plenty time on an 8N pulling a 6 foot BushHog brand. Ain't nuthin' like a 3" fat pine knot coming out from under there and whacking you in the back of the head. I don't think Hank Aaron could have hit me any harder with a baseball bat. Nearly knocked me out Since the 8N had a direct connection between the PTO and the differential, unless you had a working slip clutch or ratchet clutch, there was NO stopping the 8N with the BushHog wound up. I'll give you three guesses whose slip clutch did not slip. I learned real quick that if I couldn't get it turned when I got too close to the creek bank to just go ahead and do my best to point the nose down hill and not let it get sideways. That thing would MURDER a 4" fence post, which you can probably guess who wound up putting said post back, whether I was the one that hit it or not. There was another time, I was mowing the verge of our hay field getting ready to cut hay by knocking down bitterweed and ragweed around the outside edges to make sure we didn't bale it I knew I was close to a stump, and looked back to take a reference point, when I suddenly found out I was about 2 inches taller than the previous year when I last cut that area. A tree limb caught me just above the left ear and rolled me off the seat of the 8N. Fortunately, I hit the top link, bounced off that and landed flat of my back on top of the bush hog. My pride was hurt more than anything else, and it took a minute to figure out how I was gonna get off that cutter and back up on the tractor, which was still moving in 2nd gear and full throttle. The number of close calls I've had with a rotary cutter when I was a teenager make me want to avoid one, but if I'm gonna be destroying heavy brush, guess a rotary cutter it is. Maybe I'll just see if I can find a used 54" if such an animal exists. A 60 inch just seems a bit too large to me for my little LX.

 

[Elliott in GA]

FWIW, I use a Land Pride RCR 1860 on my LX 2610SU, and it does a great job. I do leave the loader on for better balance. I have hit a couple of rocks, but it shattered or split them. The RCR 1860 also does a surprisingly good job of mowing a pasture. While I was reclaiming my field, I only mowed with the rotary cutter, and then I switched to my 5 foot finish mower after about 2 months plus insecticide and weed/feed fertilizer.

 

[bird dogger]

Here's some threads that I posted pics and comments on regarding my flail mower:

B2601 Brush Attachment | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota See post #71

Woodland Mills Stump Grinder with Backup Camera | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

My Flail Mower “OOPS!” | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

The Betstco flail behind my B2650 does some serious work making new trails through our woods. My new rule of thumb is if I dare to drive over the brush/small saplings with the tractor.....it'll go through the flail mower. Within reason, of course. If you had two inch saplings planted like your corn field it would struggle with that. But an occasional large sapling mixed in with small brush and other downed stuff isn't too much to ask of it. It's noisy and will grunt on the larger saplings but you just slow down and let it do its thing. So far, I've never had a stick or branch jam up the flails. I've also had short pieces of larger stock (maybe 3'' diameter +/-) that had been laying on the ground go through the flail and come out the back end chopped up.....not as finely as the brush....but still chopped up.

The only issues I've had so far have been due to my negligence as explained in my OOPS thread above and hitting some unseen rocks in the trail blazing. The repaired hammers have been holding up excellently! the new belts also!

I agree with everyone above that the flail and rotary cutter are two different beasts with there own strengths and weaknesses. But Old Paint, if you're looking to cut, clear and maintain brushy areas and make them into walkable paths, or just cleaner looking in general, etc. ........my vote would be for the flail. I have mine set low and the brush is turned to minced meat coming out the back end. No toes to stub on anything as you can see in the pics. If you have any questions.....fire away!

 

[Old_Paint]

FWIW, I use a Land Pride RCR 1860 on my LX 2610SU, and it does a great job. I do leave the loader on for better balance. I have hit a couple of rocks, but it shattered or split them. The RCR 1860 also does a surprisingly good job of mowing a pasture. While I was reclaiming my field, I only mowed with the rotary cutter, and then I switched to my 5 foot finish mower after about 2 months plus insecticide and weed/feed fertilizer.

I rarely remove the FEL and bucket, and I'm also smart enough to know ballast in the front is very important with something as heavy as a rotary cutter on the back. The good news is that while you may lift the front wheels on occasion, you're not going to flip the tractor backward. Occasionally, I'll put the lighter stump bucket on for obvious reasons, but it sticks out a lot farther than the stock bucket. But I never run it without the loader on, simply because I don't have to worry about storing it if I leave it on the tractor. The dealer loaded both front and rear tires, so I'm thinking I've got plenty mass/ballast for what I need to do. We apparently have the same tractor, LX2610SU.

Rotary cutters are brutal machines for sure. Since you have and use a 60 inch, have you noticed any issues with engine loading or bogging in heavy cutting? What about engaging/spin up with the hydraulic clutch on the PTO? Can't imagine it being a lot worse than spinning up the disk on my WC68 chipper.

 

[Elliott in GA]

I rarely remove the FEL and bucket, and I'm also smart enough to know ballast in the front is very important with something as heavy as a rotary cutter on the back. The good news is that while you may lift the front wheels on occasion, you're not going to flip the tractor backward. Occasionally, I'll put the lighter stump bucket on for obvious reasons, but it sticks out a lot farther than the stock bucket. But I never run it without the loader on, simply because I don't have to worry about storing it if I leave it on the tractor. The dealer loaded both front and rear tires, so I'm thinking I've got plenty mass/ballast for what I need to do. We apparently have the same tractor, LX2610SU.

Rotary cutters are brutal machines for sure. Since you have and use a 60 inch, have you noticed any issues with engine loading or bogging in heavy cutting? What about engaging/spin up with the hydraulic clutch on the PTO? Can't imagine it being a lot worse than spinning up the disk on my WC68 chipper.

In terms of regular cutting/mowing, I use M range with normal speed. I was cutting along the roadway (the county had not cut it for a couple of months), and the cutter did fine with thick waist high fescue grass. I did go slower when taking a full bite, but I maintained normal speed with 1/2 bite.

I do take it slowly in L range, when I am cutting thick brush - partly to maintain good blade speed and partly to avoid hitting something large.

When I engage the PTO, I do it at 1400-1500 RPMs engine speed; it makes the spin up smoother. After it is spinning, I move to 540 RPMs PTO speed in a gradual one-step sweep. The cutter is very smooth (for a cutter) at 540 RPMs.

So far, I have not experienced any engine bogging/lugging. When I make my 2 passes around the perimeter of my field with the rotary cutter (before I mow the field with the finish mower), I only lose about 10 RPMs going up the moderately steep hill (the hill ascent is probably about 30-40 yards).

As always, YMMV.

 

[Old_Paint]

Here's some threads that I posted pics and comments on regarding my flail mower:

B2601 Brush Attachment | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota See post #71

Woodland Mills Stump Grinder with Backup Camera | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

My Flail Mower “OOPS!” | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

The Betstco flail behind my B2650 does some serious work making new trails through our woods. My new rule of thumb is if I dare to drive over the brush/small saplings with the tractor.....it'll go through the flail mower. Within reason, of course. If you had two inch saplings planted like your corn field it would struggle with that. But an occasional large sapling mixed in with small brush and other downed stuff isn't too much to ask of it. It's noisy and will grunt on the larger saplings but you just slow down and let it do its thing. So far, I've never had a stick or branch jam up the flails. I've also had short pieces of larger stock (maybe 3'' diameter +/-) that had been laying on the ground go through the flail and come out the back end chopped up.....not as finely as the brush....but still chopped up.

The only issues I've had so far have been due to my negligence as explained in my OOPS thread above and hitting some unseen rocks in the trail blazing. The repaired hammers have been holding up excellently! the new belts also!

I agree with everyone above that the flail and rotary cutter are two different beasts with there own strengths and weaknesses. But Old Paint, if you're looking to cut, clear and maintain brushy areas and make them into walkable paths, or just cleaner looking in general, etc. ........my vote would be for the flail. I have mine set low and the brush is turned to minced meat coming out the back end. No toes to stub on anything as you can see in the pics. If you have any questions.....fire away!

Already read your "OOPS" thread. Letting the magic blue smoke outta belts is never fun. But I did like the description of the ruined picnic. Look what I found my picanic basket Boo-Boo.

So you recommend hammer flails then. The Betsco stuff seems to be of similar quality as LandPride, perhaps a little better than CountyLine.

Have you ever had problems with vines wrapping/stalling the drum? Muscadine vines can be pretty tough, but I've got some other kind of vine back there that's even tougher than those. I have a lot of tree debris down, but most of it's rotten and will get chewed up pretty quickly after the first few passes. Obviously, I'd remove the newer logs before trying to mow around them. The price for a flail is a little better than a heavier duty rotary, and the good news is that it will never run itself outta something to do.

 

[D2Cat]

I've got a 5', 6', and 7' flail a 5', 6' 8' rotary. I use them according to the tractor I have handy and the material I need to cut. If it's woods I use a rotary. All other areas I prefer the flail. I actually prefer the 7' flail over the smaller ones. I can mow grass/seeds/buffalo burrs with a flail and it grinds them all up and looks like the mowed the area with a push mower. My flails all have the double wings that have the bend on the ends with two wings on each pin.

What I find really interesting is I mow around the barn and silo that's where the various junk grass is, and with a flail the cows will be right out there eating away. and I think all the green stuff gets ground up so good they eat it all!

I have mowed weeds that are 4' tall with a flail and left the flail up 8-10" and it still cuts fine.

If you want some homework on flail mowers go to tractor by net and they have a complete multi-hundred page thread on them.

 

[bird dogger]

Have you ever had problems with vines wrapping/stalling the drum? Muscadine vines can be pretty tough, but I've got some other kind of vine back there that's even tougher than those. I have a lot of tree debris down, but most of it's rotten and will get chewed up pretty quickly after the first few passes. Obviously, I'd remove the newer logs before trying to mow around them. The price for a flail is a little better than a heavier duty rotary, and the good news is that it will never run itself outta something to do.

Sorry I can't help you with the vine question. Not much for vines up here, especially the big ones! When I would roto till the corn, the stalks would sometimes wrap around and clog up the tiller solid. Mowing the corn with the flail mower, the stalks went through without a hitch.

Yup, the rotten deadfall goes through the hammers and comes out as a finely mulched material.

 

[Old_Paint]

We used a disk on the corn stalks in the fall after pulling the corn by hand. They'd rot through the winter, and put a little back in the soil by spring. A disk will chop 'em up pretty good after you get it shiny, so I'd do the less challenging fields first to get the disk all polished up. Every other year, we'd put the turning plow behind the little Farmall Cub to turn the soil about 10 inches deep, and that was how I spent my afternoons after school in the fall. Spring would come again, and I'd turn all the fields we farmed with the 8' disk behind the 8N. The sandy soil would make those disks gleam like mirrors. We had a few cows, so planted about 10 acres of corn every year for winter feed to go with the wheat/rye hay that we grew on another field. To go with that, there was an 8 acre Bahia grass hay field next to our house. I'd cut that 3 or 4 times every summer with an old Ford sickle mower behind the 8N, then put one of my sisters on the old McCormick Dump rake behind the Cub to windrow it. Sometimes I'd let them drive the tractor because it was probably more fun on the McCormick rake and all it took was timing to get the windrows straight.

Most of the veggie garden we worked with a quarter / draft horse mixed mare that had feet the size of dinner plates. Ol' Maude was nearly as wide as she was high. It would nearly dislocate your hips if you tried to ride her because she was so wide across the girth. Trying to ride her was generally a bad idea anyway, because she knew exactly how tall she was and where the nearest tree was with a limb low enough to drag you off her back. I hated that way of life growing up, but now I miss it. I miss the simplicity and solitude of living pretty close to Falling Off. The world was flat back then. We could prove it because we could see over the edge. It was a completely different pace of life, that's for sure.

 

[Oliver]

I had an older medium duty 5' cutter that I used a few times on my B2650 and while it cut through most anything, it left a lot of material standing or bent over. Maybe it has low tip speed? Also IMO it was really too much weight too far back for the B on hills. Naturally I left the loader on for front ballast and that made for a long setup, no way it'd fit around some of the turns on my trails so I didn't even try.
I now use a Woodmaxx FM60 flail with Y knives which I prefer on my meadows that get cut down once each Fall. While there will be some standing material it gives a much better cut than the RC. The unit is fairly heavy, I want to say 700 pounds or so, but since it is so close to the 3-point it's barely felt back there, and I can use it w/o front ballast so with the loader off which makes for a WAY more maneuverable rig than the tractor/loader/rotary cutter. The overall small size of the flail mower is nice when it comes to storing it.
If you go with a flail I believe a 5' would be appropriate for your LX2610. On my B2650 the 58" it would cover the left track and extend a few inches out beyond on the right. which is about perfect.