Flagpole base extraction...What would you do?

[johnjk]

My flag pole got taken out by storms earlier this year, the metal at the base had rotted and failed. I want to get it put back up but need to extract that concrete "plug" it used to be mounted in. Due to the rotted end of the steel pole being stuck in the plastic sleeve in the concrete, I can't just push a new section of pipe in and call it a day. I have a couple ideas but want to know if you have any easier or proven recommendations.

Idea 1. Dig a new hole next to the old flag base. Manual PHD. Very wet so easy digging in the clay

Idea 2. Somehow try to pop it out with the FEL without tearing up the lawn. Not too confident on my abilities to do that here. Top of cement is even with grass.

Idea 3. Get some Skidding Tongs from Rural King, dig around and use a short chain on the FEL to pull out. https://www.ruralking.com/16in-lift...Rs-HY1peafHCdYIc9K5d6jakCDLpgJ7MaAnZpEALw_wcB

Idea 4. Wait until I rent a mini excavator to do some drainage work.

Idea 5. See what I can come up with to go down the center of the cement (where pole originally was) and pull up that way.

Thoughts / Ideas?

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Pictures would really help...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Dig around it with a shovel, wrap a chain around it use an old rim next to pole base, chain over rim, pull chain, out comes pole base, use FEL to dispose of old base.

 

[skeets]

Kinda like this what wolfan said,,, The larger the rim the better it works
https://youtu.be/eHC-AA1xj4w?t=29

 

[D2Cat]

Need to have pictures of the area around the concrete and a close up of the rusted hole in the center.

I had a concrete base poured in a yard with a large cast iron bell mounted on it. I needed my L305 to get high enough to pick the bell straight up and get it safely off. Then I wanted to remove the concrete, just like you want to. It required a backhoe. It was about 24" round and 36" deep and flush with the ground. It was like removing a stump!

I'm thinking for your project, measure the ID of the pipe for the flag pole. See the condition of the hole in the concrete. See if you can come up with a heavy wall pipe that can be inserted into the end of you flag pole and also be inserted into the concrete. Then you can put several feet into the flagpole and weld or secure as needed. This set the entire unit into the concrete and if there is some play use some quality sealer to secure it in place.

Just thinking outside the box!! And a whole lot less work.

 

[bucktail]

What would happen if you rented a core drill a skosh bigger than the OD of the old pipe, cored it out stuck a new pipe in and filled the gap with mortar?

 

[motionclone]

Can you fit a pipe or dowel inside of the broken off pipe? If so, maybe a hydraulic extraction like you might do with a pilot bushing in a flywheel.

 

[Tim Horton]

My old farm place came with about 2/3 a power pole with a weather beaten TV antenna. To remove it, I dug as deep as I could on opposite sides with the post hole digger. Hooked a very long chain, longer than the post tall, about 2 meter off the ground and pulled with the tractor a bit off to the side. I pulled it into the hole left by the PHD, and it leaned over enough to come out easily and lay down on the ground with no problems.

It left kind of a mess where it came out of the ground, but that was easily fixed.

 

[dlsmith]

I had the same problem years ago, the concrete plug was about a foot and a half in diameter and pretty flat on top, so I made a plate 12" square with two pieces of C channel each a foot long stood on end, back to back, spaced so the new mast fit between them and welded them to the base plate. I also welded in triangular braces to reinforce the channels. I drilled two 5/8" holes in the C channels and the mast for bolts so I can remove the lower one and pivot the mast down to change the rope or pulley. I drilled four 5/8" holes in the corners of the base plate and used it as a template to hammer drill holes into the concrete. I installed concrete anchors in the holes and used a couple of washers to get the base level and put nuts on the ends of the anchors and tightened them down.
Never had a problem since, and makes it easy to take down the 20' long, 3" diameter aluminum mast for rope and pulley changes.

If you have a thin walled steel or aluminum mast, you may want to install a plug or reinforcement of some type in the bottom of the tube to keep from crushing it.

 

[GeoHorn]

Think of a "molly" or "toggle-bolt". Drop a chain down into the hole bolted to two short pieces of iron bolted on their lower ends. The iron should be slightly long than the inner-hole is wide.
When you pull up on the chain, the iron will try to "expand" ,... grab the concrete plug via the inner-hole... and should come up. It will help to soak the area around the plug overnight first. Drive rebar down around the plug a few places to allow the water from a slow-running water hose to flow down/around the plug overnight. Use your 3-pt to pull up on the chain.

How do I know this'll work? I've done it. Twice. (The DW wanted twin martin-houses put out front ten years ago and we installed 3' pipes into post-holes and poured concrete around them. The bird houses were mounted on 15' long pipes inserted into the pipes which were concreted into the ground, similar to portable flag poles.
Then she changed her mind where she wanted them 4 yrs later.)

I used the remaining holes to plant plum trees. Here's the first year blooms. Now 5 years have passed and in another month we'll be covered up in sweet plums from trees that are now 10' high. The grandkids love to pick and eat 'em on the spot.

 

[Redlands]

Be sure to lay a blanket or something over the chain or cable your pulling with. It reduces the chances of a broke or suddenly loose chain or cable from whipping into the back of your vehicle.

 

[johnjk]

The joys of catching some OTT at work!!.. I'll get a couple pictures of the area as well as the concrete plug posted this evening.

My first thought was to get some thick walled pipe and use it as a sleeve for the thin flag pole metal. The OD was too large to get in the concrete hole with or without the remaining metal and the ID was too small to accept the tapered end of the remaining pole. I don't really have the stuff handy to cobble up a wedge system to put down its throat. Times like these I really miss having access to a machine shop. An hour of lathe time would make that thick wall solution work.

Depth of the concrete is around 2', maybe 10" diameter. I'll measure up the ID/OD of the flag pole.

I hadn't thought about creating a choker around the perimeter and using a chain. That may work. I was going to try and just use the existing section of pole that was left for pulling, but it was too far gone. I was able to tear the remaining pole from the base with my hands. I removed what I could with some pliers and pounded the rest over smooth so the dogs paws don't get caught. Easy enough to open that center hole back up if needed

One positive out of this is regardless of the mess, the boss now wants a flower garden around the pole. Says it will make it easier for her to mow !

I appreciate the all the suggestions guys.

 

[johnjk]

I was able to get a few shots before the rain came back in yesterday. The one with the dogs and the dark green area in the middle is the location of the concrete base, watered daily by the dogs, hence the greenest area of lawn I have. The second is a top down photo. I started working around the edge with a spud bar. Tonight I dig and try the chain extraction.

Thoughts for the replacement base. I'm going to insert a couple large eye bolts with a nut and washer in to the wet cement to enable easier extraction when I have to do this again. I'm also toying with digging out the hole a bit larger and inserting a 5gal plastic bucket (with hole in bottom for drainage) to fill with concrete, again allowing easier extraction. The con I see on this one is the lip or exposed area of the bucket will deteriorate and become brittle over time.

The pole itself is thin wall, steel, OD 2". When this goes again, It will be replaced with either a thick wall steel or aluminum pole.

 

[William1]

Easy extraction means the pole is less secure.
The method WIW gave, the truck rim is the shizzle. Digging around the base, while is a pain and seems 'destructive', in a few weeks time, it will of returned to normal. Replace the pole with aluminum, it will not rust.

 

[GeoHorn]

Plastic bucket idea will disappoint you. The plastic will embrittle and be worthless as a future extraction-help.
If you truly believe that some day you'll want to extract it again, I suggest you first lay a steel plate in the hole with a cable already bolted beneath it run thru eyebolts. The cable can be coiled around the upper lip of the concrete plug just beneath the dirt-level.
In the future all you'll have to do is dig down a few inches, grab hold of the cable with a 3pt and lift it all out.

Even Better: Galvanized chain might also work, in which case you could put the chain in the hole and pour the concrete into the hole which will incorporate the chain, leaving a couple of links at the surface.
A bolt run thru the surface-links and chained to your 3pt should lift it right out.

 

[johnjk]

Well That Was Easy

Working from home today, what better way to spend my lunch than getting this plug out. I dug out with a shovel around the perimeter about 6" down and wrapped my chain a couple times around it. Hooked it up to my Bolt On Hooks and it slid right out. Still time for a ham sammich.... Thanks for all the ideas. Off to the hardware store for some concrete in a bit to set the new base.

She will be flying in time for Memorial Day. Thanks to all Active military, retired and to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice

 

[skeets]

I love it when a plan comes together